Bad Guy (DerekM)Derek Martinez

[RedicRetics]

And Your correct david i made the assumption on an accurate description, i should have asked more questions.

I received the monitor at 8 o clock Tuesday morning, sent the first PM at 10 which was

"he showed up today, hes very healthy but he definitely doesnt seem tame, im aware it could be the shipping so ill wait till tommorow ."

at which point i was told to wait a few days and i did. all of the pms were shuttled back and forth till 1130. At no time threw the paypal emails or through a PM did he say the temperament was anything other then the ad described. If i have to wait a week or 2 for him to calm down thats acceptable. A biting or whipping monitor is not.

 

[Derekm]

Tracking Number: 1Z14W562019812xxxx
Delivery Date / Time: 02-November-2010 / 8:53 AM
Delivery Location: RESIDENTIAL
Signed by: COLYER

 

[Derekm]

Delivery time 8:53. First pm was at 10. Sufficient time? I don't think so.
There is no way to predict the effect stressdue to shipping will have on a monitor or any animal. Being tossed around in a box for a few hours is very traumatic. Given that the first pm was an hour later, yes in my opinion you jumped the gun. It's a Sumatran not a savana which you have raised,

Appreciate the "bad guy" thread in my name though.
Doesn't seem justified

 

[[email protected]]

Personally i would like to see an e-mail or message that shows the seller had notified about the the hissing AND whipping. Thats just me. Saying that you said it doesn't really hold water.

I have handled large aggressives snakes before. Taming them down takes a while. I have been bitten and arm wrapped by an albino burm. she was about 5-6 ft long. Came in a very stressed state, she had scabs and scratches down her sides and back. It looked as thought someone tried to give her a live jumbo rat or rabbit. She hissed a lot and struck in her tank a few times but my boss wanted her tamed to be sold. No one would handle her so it was my job apart from the breeders. It took me about a month, month and a half to do so before we put her on display on the floor. I was able to get her tame enough not to hiss, to be wrapped around my waist as I walked the floor and have kids pet her while their parents took pictures as I held the first 3rd of her body and head.

If you have the time and temperment is the only problem take care of it. If not do something about it, find a new buyer.

That is my opinion if Derek can provide proof that he had already told Kyle about the whipping.

 

[RedicRetics]

Delivery time 8:53. First pm was at 10. Sufficient time? I don't think so.
There is no way to predict the effect stressdue to shipping will have on a monitor or any animal. Being tossed around in a box for a few hours is very traumatic. Given that the first pm was an hour later, yes in my opinion you jumped the gun. It's a Sumatran not a savana which you have raised,

Appreciate the "bad guy" thread in my name though.
Doesn't seem justified

I made this 3 days afterward, since you said wait a few days so i did. And You can blame the shipping factor all you want, but in 2 weeks we will see.

And the fact that you admit that you knew this animal had a temperament different than what the add listed is good enough to prove you just wanted to pawn the animal off on someone else.

And I have tamed alot of animals before when i worked with the san diego herp society, This animal is not a rescue, it was a purchase for an animal with a good temperament, not a "workable" one.

 

[Shiari]

How many of us have seen other animals (birds, cats, dogs, horses) go to a new place and end up super stressed and even aggressive?

I work at a veterinary hospital and we also board animals. I've had the (dis)pleasure of taking care of a cat that is a perfect love with its owner, but is satan incarnate in boarding from start to finish, even if that time span is several weeks. It may be that an animal that was perfectly tame with the original owner will react unpleasantly to a brand new person. It might take quite a while for the lizard to calm back down if that is its problem.

 

[Angel Rojas]

I've kept a monitor or 2 in my day, and I must say that if a monitor is tail-whipping, you can believe he's hissing also. It's common knowledge and I wouldn't exspect someone to tell me that knowing how monitors are. Like Derekm said, it's a Sumatran not a savannah. Sumatran's seem to me to be a bit more high strung than other monitors and 3-4 days is NOT enough time for an animal to settle in. This animal has come into a new enviorment with new smells and sounds, it has every right to be a little more defensive than what it may act like on a normal basis. As other's have said, give the monitor time to get used to it's new surroundings.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

To the OP; with time and patience: a lion is tamed... Gonna take a lot for sure; I've seen two outta a thousand tame monitors... It just ain't in em to like humans?? But; you can grow with one... Once again; lotsa time n patience... Don't give up on the animal!!

 

[Southern Wolf]

To the OP; with time and patience: a lion is tamed... Gonna take a lot for sure; I've seen two outta a thousand tame monitors... It just ain't in em to like humans?? But; you can grow with one... Once again; lotsa time n patience... Don't give up on the animal!!

I think the point is... he was supposed to be buying an already somewhat tame monitor. Not having to BE the monitor tamer.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I think the point is... he was supposed to be buying an already somewhat tame monitor. Not having to BE the monitor tamer.

You actually DO get what you paid for. He paid how much, and wants a dog tame animal that someone has worked on and put in the time and expected to get it cheap?

If he had asked more questions to establish temperament, he may have had a leg to stand on.

 

[RedicRetics]

I've kept a monitor or 2 in my day, and I must say that if a monitor is tail-whipping, you can believe he's hissing also. It's common knowledge and I wouldn't exspect someone to tell me that knowing how monitors are. Like Derekm said, it's a Sumatran not a savannah.

So your saying a good temperament is a whipping hissing monitor? I have a nile too, who doesnt act like this.

You actually DO get what you paid for. He paid how much, and wants a dog tame animal that someone has worked on and put in the time and expected to get it cheap?

If he had asked more questions to establish temperament, he may have had a leg to stand on.

So the fact that i paid 550 means it was ok to lie to me? Derek said in this thread that the monitor was temperamental and was prone to whipping, which is Obviously not mentioned in the sale add.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

In my opinion, a HEALTHY, properly heated monitor(with very few exceptions) is temperamental and has an attitude.

I handle Moggie a LOT and she's tail whippy and hisses and gives an attitude. Monitors that lie around doing nothing generally are not a healthy animal.

Again.. there are exceptions, animals that people have worked with a lot and that have good temperaments naturally. But in general, especially with certain species, you should not expect a typical monitor to act like a ball python.

At ANY rate, a couple days is not long enough for an animal to settle in and relax. Even a ball python should be given a week to settle and be left alone. A much more high strung animal like a monitor should be given more time accordingly.

Since you mentioned your 3 hour commute, how much time were you going to be investing in handling the animal once you got it? They don't stay handlable by you pulling them out once a week or two weeks. You may want to consider a different species that stays more mellow.

I hope that you get that animal into a home with someone who has time to properly handle it.

 

[deborahbroadus]

So your saying a good temperament is a whipping hissing monitor? I have a nile too, who doesnt act like this.



So the fact that i paid 550 means it was ok to lie to me? Derek said in this thread that the monitor was temperamental and was prone to whipping, which is Obviously not mentioned in the sale add.

I am sorry, if you take it that I am saying that lying is ever right. That is not what I am saying at all, but my understanding is that he did describe how the animal was WITH HIM. There was no guarantee given that the animal would be the same with you?

Now if you had paid for an animal that was GUARANTEED or stated to be DOG TAME with anyone, then of course you have a right to be upset.

 

[RedicRetics]

In my opinion, a HEALTHY, properly heated monitor(with very few exceptions) is temperamental and has an attitude.

I handle Moggie a LOT and she's tail whippy and hisses and gives an attitude. Monitors that lie around doing nothing generally are not a healthy animal.

Again.. there are exceptions, animals that people have worked with a lot and that have good temperaments naturally. But in general, especially with certain species, you should not expect a typical monitor to act like a ball python.

At ANY rate, a couple days is not long enough for an animal to settle in and relax. Even a ball python should be given a week to settle and be left alone. A much more high strung animal like a monitor should be given more time accordingly.
.

The add didnt say "typical monitor attitude" it said Good temperament, and My big retics are Tame, they are not a ball python but good tempered nonetheless.

And Frankly i think if an add says something ill hold the seller to it, if i sold someone a " tame retic" and it wanted nothing else then to bite their face i wouldnt think saying "oh it was tame for me," would suffice.

 

[hhmoore]

And Frankly i think if an add says something ill hold the seller to it, if i sold someone a " tame retic" and it wanted nothing else then to bite their face i wouldnt think saying "oh it was tame for me," would suffice.

Okay, I'll bite....(if you sold a large, "tame" retic) what would you do if a few days after arrival the customer complained that it was intolerant of handling & had struck the glass when he walked by, so he wanted to return it for a refund?

 

[RedicRetics]

I would take the animal back, because i Actually sold a tame animal and could easily resell it.And if it was only tame for me its one more reason to keep it since its obvious the animal will do better in my care then someone elses.

And when i sell babies i will always accept them back later because i've had alot of " dont want this anymore", so i take the animal back. It may be a business but the products alive.

 

[Kaiyudsai]

Okay, I'll bite....(if you sold a large, "tame" retic) what would you do if a few days after arrival the customer complained that it was intolerant of handling & had struck the glass when he walked by, so he wanted to return it for a refund?

Exactly......... you also need to realize that Sumatran Monitors are never going to be a lap dog..... "Good Temperment" for a Sumatran monitor.... doesn't exactly equal to "good Temperment" for a Savannah.....

Temperment isn't something that is exactly measurable..... I think the OP should've done a little more homework.... both on the species involved.. and not asked such generalized questions...... I don't know anyone that guarantees temperment.... there are too many factors involved, including stress of shipping and acclimation time.......

 

[smilts]

I have to agree with most on here, good tempered is subject to species. And really its not that odd that the accused would state that he wasnt taking the animal back. Recieving a email or pm that soon after shipping is a pretty good sign that your about to be asked to take the animal back. It may take a couple of weeks, or it may take a couple of months for any species to be back to normal after shipping. My female burm was a unhappy camper after arriving for about a month now shes a sweetheart.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

I have a 3 foot Savannah and a 4 foot Nile which is tame, i've had him since he was little.

Tame, IMO is an improper word to describe any Monitor. They are way too instinctive.

It's a Monitor acting like a Monitor. This is a chance ALL of us take when we choose to keep exotics as pets. And using them as educational animals...um, their teeth are meant to cut meat. Little fingers don't stand a chance if an accident should occur. Just saying.


I think Theresa said it best though.

In my opinion, a HEALTHY, properly heated monitor(with very few exceptions) is temperamental and has an attitude.

I handle Moggie a LOT and she's tail whippy and hisses and gives an attitude............... But in general, especially with certain species, you should not expect a typical monitor to act like a ball python.

Sorry you ended up with a handful. But that's a chance you take when working with some species.

 

[RedicRetics]

Exactly......... you also need to realize that Sumatran Monitors are never going to be a lap dog..... "Good Temperment" for a Sumatran monitor.... doesn't exactly equal to "good Temperment" for a Savannah.....

Temperment isn't something that is exactly measurable..... I think the OP should've done a little more homework.... both on the species involved.. and not asked such generalized questions...... I don't know anyone that guarantees temperment.... there are too many factors involved, including stress of shipping and acclimation time.......

I think you can measure a temperament, everything has levels. i also have a nile too and hes tame.
I have worked with alot large monitors when i was in san diego working with the society, namely a few big waters, which is why i wanted one.

What i thinks funny is that people keep saying the same thing, its like they didnt actually read the whole thread, because Derek already said that he told me the monitor was temperamental and whipped, which wasnt the case and so sold me an animal different from the description in the add and the matters settled.