Well I would like to start by saying that I have read every post to this thread and unfortunately this is about two hours of my life that I will never get back lol.
Now with that being said, there are a ton of scenarios that could change the details of this situation, everything from incompatible hypo lines to bad odds. Those are all valid points but my opinion is, I highly doubt the non compatible lines of hypo. Brian told the OP that the line he used was compatible with the most common commercial lines of hypo available today such as Nerd, Bells, etc. I personally have a lot of different lines of hypo and have yet to have any compatibility issues. I’m not saying that there aren’t issues out there I just feel they are a lot less common then what a lot of you posters realize.
Now on to the bad odds. We all know that this is defiantly a possibility but with a total of 25 eggs those odds are highly unlikely. Now I hear a lot of questioning of the genetics involving the female hets. Two were proven and two were virgins. So we know that at least half those eggs came from females that had produced hypos in the past and should be from a compatible line. So at the very least we have two clutches produced from this male to compatible line female proven hypo producers with no hypos.
Cliff has already made it clear that he intends to breed this male to these females again. So hopefully he gets them to go again this year and gets a few more clutches to help prove or disprove this spider het hypo male. Until a few more breedings are done I think we need to keep an open mind on the subject of this male not being a het.
Now I hear a lot of people saying that the OP is not entitled to anything more then the original price of the animal IF and I say IF this animal is proven not to be a het. I think that is bull ____. Think about it. We could have people in this industry selling female het animals for say 1000 a piece. They sale 20 of these animals and receive 20,000 that year from het sales. Lets say3 out of those twenty die for what ever reason which is not uncommon. Another 3-5 of them are not the best of eaters. 12 of them end up to size in the next 24 months. Only say 7 out of 12 actually reproduce. They do not produce the desired visual trait on there first breeding so you tell all of your customers they must have had bad odds they need to breed them again. The following year another clutch is produced if they are lucky enough to get that female to go again. And now you decide maybe there is a problem I am going to refund you that original price you paid which is 1000.00 per animal and I will need you to send that proven breeder female back to me of course.
So let’s look at this. I made 20,000. From the original sale. 5 years later I need to refund say 5,000 – 7,000 and I get those five to seven normal adult girls back which I could sale for 750.00 so I end up making about $13,750.00 free and clear and I’m still considered one of the good guys in this industry because I gave you a full refund of your purchase price 5 years after the sale. Now this is all hypothetically speaking of course but wow this looks like a scammers dream deal.
I am a firm believer that there should be some type of compensation above and beyond the original price of the animal. We need to consider the time, food, etc that goes into raising animal not including the fact that you are now years behind on the project. I have been personally in this situation more then once. I was the buyer of bad hets and I have came to the conclusion that it is only faire that when an animal is defiantly proven not to be a het. The seller should refund the full purchase price and receive the animal back that is proven not to be a het. And then the buyer should also receive the desired morph that they bought het s for. One for every year they bred them. So let’s say the OP still had this snake and it was determined that the snake was not a het. He would receive his entire 1500.00 purchase price back and receive two honey bees one for each year it was bred. And Brian would receive the male spider supposed het back. That is what I think is fair and that is exactly what guarantee that I offer to all my customers buying hets from me.
Now on to the real issue at hand here. Brian (BHB) and his customer service skills or lack there of. I think everyone is in agreement here that Brian defiantly leaves some things to be desired in the customer service / communication department. No matter if he feels the snake in question is a het or not he needs to at the very least keep the lines of communication open. If he did this then this thread more then likely would have never been started.
We are all busy in our business and personal lives but what he did was so unacceptable that I personally will have to think long and hard before I ever spend another dime with him. I personally think that anyone can breed ball pythons it’s not rocket science. It will come down to customer service to determine where my hard earned money gets spent.
I apologize for the very long winded post but there are just so many things I wanted to touch base on and am sure I have not touched them all. I do think no matter what the situation is with Brian he needs to at the very least address this situation here or in private with all the parties involved. Ignoring this is not helping anyone, especially him.
And to those of you saying this isn’t going to hurt his business in any way, I can assure you it already has. Paul Wyble @ Steel City Exotics.
I think there should be an agreement in the beginning if there is more than a refund desired. Some of us get to comfortable with who we are dealing with that we "assume" way too much. If someone sold me a het, I would want photo ID with papers including a written guarrantee on said Het. If you pay a little less and don't get the papers, ID etc, then that is the price you pay to save a little money.