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Breeding size of adult female boas

Jeremy, And not just that, but you also have to clean the cage less! Have you considered fasting that female to see if she would do some growing? That might help her get a little length and you be more comfortable with breeding her.
 
jmwboas said:
Jeremy, And not just that, but you also have to clean the cage less! Have you considered fasting that female to see if she would do some growing? That might help her get a little length and you be more comfortable with breeding her.
Click to expand...

I used to feed my boas every week. Felt that I was starving them if I made them go 2 weeks without food. Then Rick (Richard Carew) gave me some good advice. Took me a while to quit feeling bad for the hungry boas, and I think it took them getting used to it, too...I took a couple of bites when they were "overdue"! lol

But since I've gone to feeding them about every 3 weeks ("about" because sometimes I'll feed them within 14 days, but sometimes--rarely--it's a full month between appropriately sized rats) they've become more active, slimmed down a little bit, and still continue to grow. Lower food-costs and less poop to scoop are both nice bonuses!! :thumbsup:
 
Matt2979 said:
I used to feed my boas every week. Felt that I was starving them if I made them go 2 weeks without food. Then Rick (Richard Carew) gave me some good advice. Took me a while to quit feeling bad for the hungry boas, and I think it took them getting used to it, too...I took a couple of bites when they were "overdue"! lol

But since I've gone to feeding them about every 3 weeks ("about" because sometimes I'll feed them within 14 days, but sometimes--rarely--it's a full month between appropriately sized rats) they've become more active, slimmed down a little bit, and still continue to grow. Lower food-costs and less poop to scoop are both nice bonuses!! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Who wouldn't want a healthier, more active boa by spending less and cleaning less? Like you said, it takes a little practice, but once you and them are switched over its good for everyone!
 
I honestly think its best to vary the diet. In terms of amount of time in between feedings. It keeps them active and growing and lean! I have taken a couple bites when putting new boas on my feeding schedule but bites are half the fun! Im willing to take a few if it means my boas are healthier.
 
As busy as I am I never feed the EXACT same every time. They definately get a mix, lol. It might be 11 days, maybe 13, lol.
 
Let me see if I get this right....

You guys are saying that a lean 4 year old, 4 ft long, 4 lbs Boa, is a healthier Boa... Than a 4 year old, 7 ft long, 16lbs Boa?

So keeping Boas hungry, small and lean makes for healthier animals? Is this a biological requirement, or is it because wild animals are lean?

I mean Boas are opportunistic feeders... Right? .....If a Wild Boa finds a rat and eats it, and then 4 days later finds another rat... You bet it will eat it too... Now, if that Wild Boa ate an adult chicken, well yeah, it is probably going to take 4 or 6 weeks before it start getting hungry and takes another meal...

If my Captive 7 ft Boa, ate a 8lbs rabbit... I could see it not eating for a month... But if I am feeding it two XLarge rats every two weeks, Is that too much?

So, are you guys are feeding your animals 2X as much food, 1/2 as often? Or are you guys just giving your animals 1/2 as much food?

What are the basis of one Boa being healthier than another?

Luis
 
Well for one it is documented that gravid boas in the wild tend to be rather small and much skinnier than most captive bred boas. They have also found that adult boas do grow more when not feeding as there slow metabolism allows there body to take there stored energy and use that to produce muscle mass, which is the most important thing when breeding an adult boa. Vin Russon once stated that a suitable sized rabbit once a month will be more than enough for an adult boa of almost any species for its entire life. I need someone else to jump in here as I cannot get my fingers to type what my brain is thinking, lol.
 
I rarely feed my boas more than one (appropriately sized) prey item in a feeding....and there is absolutely no reason to give a 7ft boa an 8 lb rabbit, lol.

I have snakes that were not raised on a conservative feeding plan, and some that were...looking at them as adults, (IMO) the ones raised slower look better. Increased feedings in relatively inactive animals leads to increased fat development - that doesn't mean that the animal LOOKS fat (though they sometimes do). The damage is inside, when the fat pervades the vital organs.

When I first got back into snakes, I acquired a yearling female boa - she was close to 5 ft long, and had been fed weekly. I'd never dealt much with BCI prior to that - I was a python and venomous guy - so I continued on that feeding schedule for 6-8 months. During that time, I learned of the problems associated with overfeeding boas; and, as a result, I backed her off to every two weeks. She never looked fat, but when she was around 5.5 yrs old (at 6.5-7 ft, and approx 15 lbs), I started noticing some fat deposits when she coiled in certain positions. She died at 6 yrs, and the cause of death was associated with fatty liver and heart (the fat wasn't limited to those organs, but they were apparently the worst, and the reason she died). I've got one other female that was heavily fed when she was young, and I expect that she will meet a similar fate...though not at so young an age.

I realized some time ago that I couldn't feed boas like people used to feed snakes, and I've witnessed comparable growth rates with reduced feedings in other species; so I've restructured my approach, accordingly. I'm not as conservative as Tom, but a lot of people comment that they think I don't feed enough. I start babies on a 7-10 day schedule - but they frequently get stretched to two weeks once they are a few months old. By the time they are 5-6 months old, they are already on the two week plan (there isn't a specific time that this is done, it just happens)....but I don't feed by the calendar. They might get fed right at 14 days, they may get fed at day 18 or 19. I'll later stretch those feedings even more - my adults are rarely fed more often than every 4 weeks, though I'll occasionally toss the females a rat at 3 weeks.
I'm not saying that this is how everybody should feed their snakes - just that this is how I do it. If I continue with boas for another 15+ yrs, I'll be in a better position to comment on whether this is, in fact, beneficial to the animals...but, for the time being, I'm going with my belief that it is.

As far as boas (and other snakes) being opportunistic feeders in the wild - that's true...but the opportunity isn't as common as some people seem to think. Using some native species as an example, it has been found that some species feed less than 12x/yr in their natural range...but people feed captives weekly, using the argument that they are providing "ideal conditions" that the snake doesn't get in the wild, so there is no reason not to provide regular meals. This is a topic that will always be discussed, and one on which people with opposing theories and backgrounds will continue to disagree....but a respectful discussion brings a variety of ideas to people that might not have considered them; and that is how practice changes.
 
I feel an adult female can be fed a proper sized prey item once every 2 weeks to once a month, depending on size of prey and the size you would like the female boa to reach. What we are discussing here, is rather than feeding a female boa every 2 weeks, feed her once a month to obtain a healthier but smaller size. Smaller females tend to "bounce" back from a breeding season much easier than a larger female. For instance, a large, 7-8ft female WILL NOT breed every year, sometimes maybe breeding twice in 2 years, but usually no more than that. Most people give there 7-8ft sized boas a season off either after each litter or ever 2 years. A smaller sized female may be able to produce a litter every year, with no ill effects, but still would need a season off every few years to prevent her from being burnt out at an early age. We are also discussing how to feed a female boa as she is growing, growing her at a slower rate, allowing her to mature more naturally, rather than power feeding to get her to breed at 3-4 years old. In my opinion, 4 years is the min age to attempt breeding a female boa no matter the size.
 
So to sum up what I just said, feeding an adult boa is healthier, they obtain a smaller size, they live longer, they require less space to house them in, it saves you money on feeders and there is less poo to clean up.
 
Well wild Boas are wild Boas... They have to free range to get their own food... Do you think they are lean by choice?

You know those anorexic supermodels... Yeah not healthy!!! A girl with some extra 10 lbs looks better and is healthier... All extremes are bad.

My breeding adult female Boas take two XL rats every two weeks...

Males on the other hand they eat every two weeks still, but they only take 1/2 the meal a breeding female takes...

My adult Boas do not get huge lumps after a meal... Its more, you can hardy notice they have eaten...

I guess I am in the middle of the road... Every two weeks a moderate meal... NOT a big meal every week, and NOT an extreme meal once a month either...

It does make sense that energy to digest could be used for growth... I guess a good size rabbit takes 2 weeks to digest... A couple rats takes a less than a 1 week...

Do you guys also reduce the temperatures to slow down metabolism?

Luis
 
mxracer4life said:
So to sum up what I just said, feeding an adult boa is healthier, they obtain a smaller size, they live longer, they require less space to house them in, it saves you money on feeders and there is less poo to clean up.
Click to expand...

I am looking at this theory with an open mind...

The only thing I have an issue with is that if you want a small snake that requires less space to house, why not get a Ball Python instead?

Boas are bigger and they do require larger cages, and they eat and poo more...

Controlling the size of your Boas by feeding them less, for personal convenience... It just does not sound right to me...

Luis
 
I don't know that they stay smaller...but it takes them longer to reach "full" size (boas will continue to grow throughout their life. I suppose that one could restrict food enough limit their growth, but that is not what most of us are talking about.
 
hhmoore said:
I don't know that they stay smaller...but it takes them longer to reach "full" size (boas will continue to grow throughout their life. I suppose that one could restrict food enough limit their growth, but that is not what most of us are talking about.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
hhmoore said:
I have snakes that were not raised on a conservative feeding plan, and some that were...looking at them as adults, (IMO) the ones raised slower look better.
Click to expand...

hhmoore said:
I don't know that they stay smaller...but it takes them longer to reach "full" size
Click to expand...

:iagree:

I pretty much follow the same feeding schedule Tom posted. I've also been accused of not feeding my snakes enough or 'maintenance feeding' cause they aren't 6' in the first few years. I have some '06s that are going be over 5' this year (some growing about 1/2' faster than the siblings, all on the same schedule). First time breeding will be in 2012, they will be 6yrs old.

I personally will no longer breed any female under 5yrs of age. just my opinion and outlook on it. I'm not saying other people are wrong for doing so. It would be interesting to see how long some of those boas live that are pushed up and bred so quickly...

The feeding schedule seems to work fine for my boas, I've got an '89 common boa that I've had for 14 years, 3 boas that are '98s (albino, het and normal) that I've had for 9 years and all are thriving. They get fed about once a month. If my boas all live over 20 years I feel I've done a good job. (Oh and the '89 was 5.5' when I got her at 9yrs, now estimate her to be about 8', maybe 8.5'.)
 
AbsoluteApril said:
:iagree:

I pretty much follow the same feeding schedule Tom posted. I've also been accused of not feeding my snakes enough or 'maintenance feeding' cause they aren't 6' in the first few years. I have some '06s that are going be over 5' this year (some growing about 1/2' faster than the siblings, all on the same schedule). First time breeding will be in 2012, they will be 6yrs old.

I personally will no longer breed any female under 5yrs of age. just my opinion and outlook on it. I'm not saying other people are wrong for doing so. It would be interesting to see how long some of those boas live that are pushed up and bred so quickly...

The feeding schedule seems to work fine for my boas, I've got an '89 common boa that I've had for 14 years, 3 boas that are '98s (albino, het and normal) that I've had for 9 years and all are thriving. They get fed about once a month. If my boas all live over 20 years I feel I've done a good job. (Oh and the '89 was 5.5' when I got her at 9yrs, now estimate her to be about 8', maybe 8.5'.)
Click to expand...

What's your opinion on size? I have a 4 year old, 4 1/2 ft female that I am considering to breed her this fall, she will be 4 1/2 years old this fall. We are all curious on others opinion on breeding a female that is under 5 - 5/12 ft, but atleast 4 years old.
 
mxracer4life said:
What's your opinion on size? I have a 4 year old, 4 1/2 ft female that I am considering to breed her this fall, she will be 4 1/2 years old this fall. We are all curious on others opinion on breeding a female that is under 5 - 5/12 ft, but atleast 4 years old.
Click to expand...

I'd give her another year; not for the size (5.5' would most likely be okay, especially if there's CA blood in her mix, I think she's a DH meaning salmon blood/panamanian blood is in there) but I would want to give more time for maturity. I prefer them to be at least 5yrs or older. And always give them a year off in between. Doesn't mean I'm right.. those are just my theories and opinions
:D
 
I understand. Thanks April.

And just so everyone knows, when I stated a smaller boa COULD breed easier every year, I wasn't implying that you should.
 
HerpHobbiest said:
Well wild Boas are wild Boas... They have to free range to get their own food... Do you think they are lean by choice?
Click to expand...

Not by "choice" Luis. It's by mother natures "design" that they're lean in the wild. You have to think outside the box. You do not find obese animals in the wild. NONE! Not even the ones that live on the grass plains with the grass that they eat.

Ever seen any of the big breeders post pictures of their older animals? I mean 10 yrs old or older too, not their 07 Boas that are already breeding for the second time. Except for an elite few, they don't have them around to post pictures of. Those elite few also don't feed as frequently. Try and get them to talk. I did. LOL

Conservative feeding ain't gonna have that big of an effect on their over all growth. Maybe how fast they get there, but they'll get there. Aurora was a great example.


Also Jeremy, now that I think back on it, I have yet to breed a Boa younger then 5½ yrs old. I might try a 4½ yr old depending on her situation, but so far I just haven't tried it.
 
Luis, you're right, if boas had the choice, they would all be obese and die of fatty liver disease by the age of 5-6. If I had a kid, should I feed them McDonald's every day because they want it? Boas are ambush predators, meaning they are designed to eat whenever possible, because food usually doesn't come around that often. Only animals that don't have a plentiful food source develop it.

It's sorta like camels developing the hump on their backs to store water, but too much water can't kill a camel. I have never thought about feeding a boa an 8 lb rabbit. I've only fed rabbits when I couldn't find rats. I have an 8' female boa that eats one jumbo rat every two-four weeks. BTW, got any outdoor shots of that sunglow on your avatar?

Chris
 
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