Inquiry is usark scamming the reptile industry

[Paul Kent]

Come to think of it..... Where is Terry Wilkins? What has he done for our industry?

If we're talking about Terry Wilkins of Captive Born Reptiles, he runs the most disgusting reptile shop Ive ever seen here in Columbus. Im not sure what hes done for the industry, but I can assure you, with the terrible conditions of his store he's certainly not helping with image.

 

[HerpVenue]

its easy.

Type in terry wilkins into any search engine. do it for the search function here at fauna as well.

Then type in Andrew Wyatt to the same search engines and here at fauna as well.

One guy testifies in committees. The other gets arrested for breaking the laws.
One guy puts financial statements up for the public to see. The other

I also just looked at Terry's organization's website. VERY not impressed. It seems he spends more time trying to debunk USARK and PIJAC than actually trying to help the hobby.

 

[HerpVenue]

If we're talking about Terry Wilkins of Captive Born Reptiles, he runs the most disgusting reptile shop Ive ever seen here in Columbus. Im not sure what hes done for the industry, but I can assure you, with the terrible conditions of his store he's certainly not helping with image.

 

[Paul Kent]

And to be specific Im not talking about the store itself.. Im talking about the husbandry practices.

 

[wlcmmtt]

So, as someone who lives in NC, and keeps or has kept Burms, Retics, Venomous, and Crocodilians, I thought I should at least say something here. Early on, in one of your first posts, you consider the law that we have in our state (the "model legislation") as a sort of ban. When, in all reality, the law we have here (IMO) didn't force us to do anything we shouldn't already have been doing. Locks on cages? Having them labeled? Secure transport? These were all things responsible owners were already doing. So, to have a law on the books that requires it, instead of just outright BANNING everything...not too big of a deal to me.

I understand the concern about random law enforcement officers going through your things, and that's why I and others I associate with in this hobby have made a point to reach out to our local Law enforcement agencies, and try to establish a positive relationship with them. They've never ONCE come down my driveway to do an inspection, or try and confiscate animals, but what they have done (and continue to do), is call us every time they have a snake related "issue" that they get a 911 call on. Several times a year, I go and remove a black rat snake from someones yard, because some hysterical person has called 911 over the "giant poisonous snake on the porch". Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my situation is the norm, or that everyone will have that same relationship. My point is, I took it upon myself to reach out to our local cops, animal control, and fire departments, and now I'm known as someone to call if they have a reptile related issue they don't know what to do with.

Also, Don't get me wrong, I understand your issues with the potential misuse of some of the verbiage of the law. But, as others have pointed out, the "model legislation" is something to be used instead of an outright ban. I personally am quite alright with "having" to put locks on my Tree Vipers, and have appropriately mandated caging for the crocodilians I have, especially since that means that I still get to keep them.

As far as the $12,000 spent on hotel rooms...do the math. There are reptile shows almost every weekend of the year, sometimes multiple shows on the same weekend, that USARK may want to have a presence at. So, $12,000 divided by 52 weekends is $230 a weekend. If they've got multiple shows in a weekend, possibly with people staying at each show...for 2, maybe 3 nights... $230 a weekend really isn't that much. I know when we do shows, we stay at least Friday and Saturday nights, and a lot of times in the bigger cities, that may still cost us $180. If you think that's an abuse of funds, and that Andrew or whatever other representative should sleep in their cars or BEHIND the USARK table, on the floor. Great. Happy for you. Just make sure you don't contribute any money to them, and then you don't have to worry about an abuse of your money.

Oh, and the $150,000 spent lobbying...any idea what other industries are spending? Assuming you're implying that $150,000 is some ridiculous amount, spend a little time researching, and you'll realize how LITTLE $150,000 really is in the Lobbying world. The NRA in 2010 spent over $2.6 Million in lobbying alone. The National CHICKEN COUNCIL spent $330,000. That's right, the Chicken Council spent more money than USARK on lobbying.... And the HSUS isn't running a national campaign against Chickens supposedly turned lose and wreaking havoc on the everglades. Just my thoughts on it all.

 

[drimes]

I rarely post here and have only one thing to say to "Rodney", if indeed that is your real name.

We live in a free society and if you believe you can better serve the reptile community than USARK....please feel free to do so.

My support has and will continue to go to USARK as they are the ONLY entity that has done anything to affect legislation in a positive way for the reptile industry. I was fortunate enough to know Andrew Wyatt when USARK first began when there was NO money, yet he persevered.

If you think you can do better....go right ahead!

Denny Rimes

 

[Tim Cole]

So, as someone who lives in NC, and keeps or has kept Burms, Retics, Venomous, and Crocodilians, I thought I should at least say something here. Early on, in one of your first posts, you consider the law that we have in our state (the "model legislation") as a sort of ban. When, in all reality, the law we have here (IMO) didn't force us to do anything we shouldn't already have been doing. Locks on cages? Having them labeled? Secure transport? These were all things responsible owners were already doing. So, to have a law on the books that requires it, instead of just outright BANNING everything...not too big of a deal to me.

I understand the concern about random law enforcement officers going through your things, and that's why I and others I associate with in this hobby have made a point to reach out to our local Law enforcement agencies, and try to establish a positive relationship with them. They've never ONCE come down my driveway to do an inspection, or try and confiscate animals, but what they have done (and continue to do), is call us every time they have a snake related "issue" that they get a 911 call on. Several times a year, I go and remove a black rat snake from someones yard, because some hysterical person has called 911 over the "giant poisonous snake on the porch". Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my situation is the norm, or that everyone will have that same relationship. My point is, I took it upon myself to reach out to our local cops, animal control, and fire departments, and now I'm known as someone to call if they have a reptile related issue they don't know what to do with.

Also, Don't get me wrong, I understand your issues with the potential misuse of some of the verbiage of the law. But, as others have pointed out, the "model legislation" is something to be used instead of an outright ban. I personally am quite alright with "having" to put locks on my Tree Vipers, and have appropriately mandated caging for the crocodilians I have, especially since that means that I still get to keep them.

As far as the $12,000 spent on hotel rooms...do the math. There are reptile shows almost every weekend of the year, sometimes multiple shows on the same weekend, that USARK may want to have a presence at. So, $12,000 divided by 52 weekends is $230 a weekend. If they've got multiple shows in a weekend, possibly with people staying at each show...for 2, maybe 3 nights... $230 a weekend really isn't that much. I know when we do shows, we stay at least Friday and Saturday nights, and a lot of times in the bigger cities, that may still cost us $180. If you think that's an abuse of funds, and that Andrew or whatever other representative should sleep in their cars or BEHIND the USARK table, on the floor. Great. Happy for you. Just make sure you don't contribute any money to them, and then you don't have to worry about an abuse of your money.

Oh, and the $150,000 spent lobbying...any idea what other industries are spending? Assuming you're implying that $150,000 is some ridiculous amount, spend a little time researching, and you'll realize how LITTLE $150,000 really is in the Lobbying world. The NRA in 2010 spent over $2.6 Million in lobbying alone. The National CHICKEN COUNCIL spent $330,000. That's right, the Chicken Council spent more money than USARK on lobbying.... And the HSUS isn't running a national campaign against Chickens supposedly turned lose and wreaking havoc on the everglades. Just my thoughts on it all.

Good post and well written. Thank you Robert.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

A search for Terry Wilkins on the BOI reveals several bad threads. Here is just one of those threads-
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71191&highlight=Captive+Born+Reptiles
All of this picked up speed when Terry went on Urban Jungles Rdaio and tried to discredit and downplay the ARK. A cheap attempt to redirect donations to his group; which has not achieved anything since it's conception (apparently they are older than USARK but I haven't heard of them until this year).

So, as someone who lives in NC, and keeps or has kept Burms, Retics, Venomous, and Crocodilians, I thought I should at least say something here. Early on, in one of your first posts, you consider the law that we have in our state (the "model legislation") as a sort of ban. When, in all reality, the law we have here (IMO) didn't force us to do anything we shouldn't already have been doing. Locks on cages? Having them labeled? Secure transport? These were all things responsible owners were already doing. So, to have a law on the books that requires it, instead of just outright BANNING everything...not too big of a deal to me.

I understand the concern about random law enforcement officers going through your things, and that's why I and others I associate with in this hobby have made a point to reach out to our local Law enforcement agencies, and try to establish a positive relationship with them. They've never ONCE come down my driveway to do an inspection, or try and confiscate animals, but what they have done (and continue to do), is call us every time they have a snake related "issue" that they get a 911 call on. Several times a year, I go and remove a black rat snake from someones yard, because some hysterical person has called 911 over the "giant poisonous snake on the porch". Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my situation is the norm, or that everyone will have that same relationship. My point is, I took it upon myself to reach out to our local cops, animal control, and fire departments, and now I'm known as someone to call if they have a reptile related issue they don't know what to do with.

Also, Don't get me wrong, I understand your issues with the potential misuse of some of the verbiage of the law. But, as others have pointed out, the "model legislation" is something to be used instead of an outright ban. I personally am quite alright with "having" to put locks on my Tree Vipers, and have appropriately mandated caging for the crocodilians I have, especially since that means that I still get to keep them.

As far as the $12,000 spent on hotel rooms...do the math. There are reptile shows almost every weekend of the year, sometimes multiple shows on the same weekend, that USARK may want to have a presence at. So, $12,000 divided by 52 weekends is $230 a weekend. If they've got multiple shows in a weekend, possibly with people staying at each show...for 2, maybe 3 nights... $230 a weekend really isn't that much. I know when we do shows, we stay at least Friday and Saturday nights, and a lot of times in the bigger cities, that may still cost us $180. If you think that's an abuse of funds, and that Andrew or whatever other representative should sleep in their cars or BEHIND the USARK table, on the floor. Great. Happy for you. Just make sure you don't contribute any money to them, and then you don't have to worry about an abuse of your money.

Oh, and the $150,000 spent lobbying...any idea what other industries are spending? Assuming you're implying that $150,000 is some ridiculous amount, spend a little time researching, and you'll realize how LITTLE $150,000 really is in the Lobbying world. The NRA in 2010 spent over $2.6 Million in lobbying alone. The National CHICKEN COUNCIL spent $330,000. That's right, the Chicken Council spent more money than USARK on lobbying.... And the HSUS isn't running a national campaign against Chickens supposedly turned lose and wreaking havoc on the everglades. Just my thoughts on it all.

Being from NC and a NCARK member before USARK, I agree 100%. Problem is; I have tried to get that point across to Rodney in another anti-ARK thread he started months ago. It works on reasonable folks, but fall short on him. He just doesn't get it. Very well written Robert, proud to have other NC keepers speaking up. After all, we live everyday with the model legislation.

 

[paulWTAMU]

Oh--i don't see 100,000+ being a problem for lobbying. far as I'm concerned, USARK should be all about lobbying

 

[maze031]

So, as someone who lives in NC, and keeps or has kept Burms, Retics, Venomous, and Crocodilians, I thought I should at least say something here. Early on, in one of your first posts, you consider the law that we have in our state (the "model legislation") as a sort of ban. When, in all reality, the law we have here (IMO) didn't force us to do anything we shouldn't already have been doing. Locks on cages? Having them labeled? Secure transport? These were all things responsible owners were already doing. So, to have a law on the books that requires it, instead of just outright BANNING everything...not too big of a deal to me.

I understand the concern about random law enforcement officers going through your things, and that's why I and others I associate with in this hobby have made a point to reach out to our local Law enforcement agencies, and try to establish a positive relationship with them. They've never ONCE come down my driveway to do an inspection, or try and confiscate animals, but what they have done (and continue to do), is call us every time they have a snake related "issue" that they get a 911 call on. Several times a year, I go and remove a black rat snake from someones yard, because some hysterical person has called 911 over the "giant poisonous snake on the porch". Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that my situation is the norm, or that everyone will have that same relationship. My point is, I took it upon myself to reach out to our local cops, animal control, and fire departments, and now I'm known as someone to call if they have a reptile related issue they don't know what to do with.

Also, Don't get me wrong, I understand your issues with the potential misuse of some of the verbiage of the law. But, as others have pointed out, the "model legislation" is something to be used instead of an outright ban. I personally am quite alright with "having" to put locks on my Tree Vipers, and have appropriately mandated caging for the crocodilians I have, especially since that means that I still get to keep them.

As far as the $12,000 spent on hotel rooms...do the math. There are reptile shows almost every weekend of the year, sometimes multiple shows on the same weekend, that USARK may want to have a presence at. So, $12,000 divided by 52 weekends is $230 a weekend. If they've got multiple shows in a weekend, possibly with people staying at each show...for 2, maybe 3 nights... $230 a weekend really isn't that much. I know when we do shows, we stay at least Friday and Saturday nights, and a lot of times in the bigger cities, that may still cost us $180. If you think that's an abuse of funds, and that Andrew or whatever other representative should sleep in their cars or BEHIND the USARK table, on the floor. Great. Happy for you. Just make sure you don't contribute any money to them, and then you don't have to worry about an abuse of your money.

Oh, and the $150,000 spent lobbying...any idea what other industries are spending? Assuming you're implying that $150,000 is some ridiculous amount, spend a little time researching, and you'll realize how LITTLE $150,000 really is in the Lobbying world. The NRA in 2010 spent over $2.6 Million in lobbying alone. The National CHICKEN COUNCIL spent $330,000. That's right, the Chicken Council spent more money than USARK on lobbying.... And the HSUS isn't running a national campaign against Chickens supposedly turned lose and wreaking havoc on the everglades. Just my thoughts on it all.

Great post. I think that having USARK champion the RIGHT legislation is a good idea. NC has the right idea. If we don't try and pass legislation that benifits us, HSUS, PETA, and all the other "animal rights" groups will make sure that laws are passed without our input. You can bet it wouldn't be in our favor.

 

[bullies&balls]

The model regs h is posting are very simplistic and are very similer to model regs that other "exotic" groups have introduced over the last 5+ years. I can tell you form first hand experince, that if we do NOT help with ideas and model regs, then the law makers will do what they know, BAN. It's easy and effective and honestly they (law makers) will tell you they do NOT know the difference between these reptiles.

Safe handle of reptiles is NO different then the regs on the books for public introaction with the big "exotics" animalcan only be so big and old. Must have at lesat one handler. Barrier msut be there for adult aniamls. In short the public must be safe from direct contact. i did show with huge burms and with all the big cats. Everything was always the same, you got to touch the last rib back or middle on the snakes. Common sense is our greatest weapon, however it s also the one thing lacking the most !!!

 

[Cat_72]

Rodney, you keep stating over and over (and over and over) that USARK is trying to "push" these regulations everywhere...yet we know that this is completely false. These models are meant for use ONLY as a compromise, when other venues are exhausted. A way of avoiding a total and complete ban. You say you don't like to compromise? It sounds to me as if you are more stuck on just fighting the war than worrying about keeping these animals. As I have said before - I would much rather make a compromise than not be able to keep these animals at all.

 

[paulWTAMU]

I can tell you form first hand experince, that if we do NOT help with ideas and model regs, then the law makers will do what they know, BAN. It's easy and effective and honestly they (law makers) will tell you they do NOT know the difference between these reptiles.

this is 100% true. I honestly thing people that are hung up on demanding a total lack of regulation are both short sighted and self-deluded, as well as athreat to our hobby on par with HSUS.

 

[SirenSanJose]

True; but 12,000/ in hotel rooms? Holy crap, that's a lot of nice hotels. I'm not terribly familiar with hotel rates in DC but that's making me rethink the size of any donations I may make to USARK. it's an average of 35/day in a hotel--at least in my part of the world you can get a decent hotel for like 50 bucks a night. I don't expect them to stay in Motel 6 but I'm really kind of curious about that amount.

I like the idea of USARK; I think they've done a fair amount of good. But I have to admit to some concern about the financials. They're not a screaming red flag at this point to me, but definetly warrant some further inspection.

I know that, as far as a lot of the big cities they do shows in and have booths in, hotels are going to run easily $99 or $129 a night at the LOWEST (and that's the show rate, at the show hotel), up to $200 a night or more.

At rates like these, assuming someone from USARK was staying in some hotel every night of the year, that could easily run $36k or more. Even having someone in a hotel every night of the year at that $35/night rate totals nearly $13k for the year -- which is the figure we're discussing here.

Of course, there's not a show every day of the year. BUT keep in mind that sometimes multiple employees are going to be sent to different events in different cities on the same day, as well as having people in various courts presenting information, plus paying hotel fees for witnesses/specialists being called in to give testimony, etc.

When you lay the numbers out like this, at least to me, the hotel bills don't seem at all unreasonable for the amount of travel that's done.

 

[SirenSanJose]

Oh--i don't see 100,000+ being a problem for lobbying. far as I'm concerned, USARK should be all about lobbying

Yeah, isn't that, y'know, the POINT of USARK? To be a lobbyist group that serves the reptile industry? I don't understand this entire thread, complaining about a lobby group lobbying? -_-

 

[WebSlave]

Gee Rodney, however in the world is a rational conversation being held here without the use of vulgarity and profanity? Do you seriously believe that peppering the posts with such talk would make it a BETTER conversation?

And for the record, no, private entities, both personally and as a business, are NOT bound by the First Amendment nor any other boundaries or freedoms itemized in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Those documents were written and designed as controls to bind the GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE. If you are going to be making such claims, please do some research beforehand about what you are saying.

Seriously, if you have any intentions whatsoever to act as a representative of this industry, PLEASE take the time to understand just what the heck you are talking about so you don't make it appear that this industry has voluntarily chosen a fool as a representative to speak before our legislators. And I strongly suggest that you not take the position that you have a right to use vulgarity and profanity in your discussions with legislative bodies neither. I'm sure that will certainly gain us valuable support points with our legislators. NOT!

 

[edf01]

This is an interesting one...I wonder how many legal types would consider keeping snakes a right. I understand where you are coming from...but I don't think the statement holds any more water than Rodney's assertion that he has the right to use vulgar language on this site.

I understand what you are saying- it may not have been the best was of explaining- but if i feel i have the right to keep snakes, i feel other people have the right to not have bad things happen to them due to my neglect. Yes, I stand there pushing on all tubs a million times b/c i dont want to loose an expensive morph, but I also don't want anything happening to anyone else due to the snake getting loose. If someone lost control of their dog who was aggressive to cats- and it barged in my house and killed my cat- i feel violated. I will admit that this whole thing I was explaining is opinionated- i understand the law may feel differently, but its just how I feel.

the first section about th ecopperhead issue and cops coming in- you knew it more technically, but it was what I was explaining with they can already come into your house. It sucks they'd not know the difference between what they were really after and something different, but USARK isn't need to make legislation for that to already happen.

Law is a growing thing. The whole concept of legislation for public safety has gotten way out of hand; and, as a nation, we are grossly over-legislated...and once there is existing legislation, it seems like such a small thing to just tweak it to fix this or that problem. Of course, as a people (this is not reptile specific), we aren't smart enough to regulate ourselves.....so it can be argued that somebody has to do it

I dont think having more legislation is the greatest speil- but given what has happened, sometimes you have to pick an option when none of them really look good

I will admit I haven't looked at the whole financials that USARK did, but generally speaking, I know money is gonna be spent for the USARK to stay in hotels. Should they always get the expensive ones on our donations? No, but I know even cheap hotel rooms can still cost decent money on location

 

[rcpreis3]

usarks stance is and you can look this up is that these animals are not dangerous. i would just like to point that out.

and the idea that i should thank my lucky stars for usark to get legislation passed is a joke. the only rules we have here in PA is if you want to legally breed and sell reptiles you get your license and that system has worked fine.

you mite want to read up on your FL laws. they had the roc permits and cage requirements at that time. at that time if you wanted to own a burm you had to get your roc permit and you have to follow the caging protocol. how dont you know this. and right now the father of that kid is suing the state for not taking the kid away when they knew the mom and boyfriend had the snake and wernt keeping it in accord with FL law.

and for the record since then FL has actually eased up on their laws. now all your need to own sell bred big snakes and nile monitors is a $50 class 3 dealers license. feel free to look into it.

as for this regulation not leading to more your wrong about that. its just a way to chip away at the industry slowly

Absolutely and entirely wrong.

If you dont have a Conditional species permit you cannot own any of those animals period. You would have had that permit BEFORE they switched from ROCS to Conditional species, or else you cant get it. You need a class 3 to sell any reptile in Florida. Conditional species are not allowed to be sold in the state of Florida. Even if both people have the proper permits, they are not allowed to be sold. No ifs, ands, or buts. Maybe u should look into it before you open your mouth.

Honestly I havent really read anything u typed because u type like a three year old. Perhaps you should quit worrying about USARK, and go back to grammar class.

 

[radera5]

I've got something to say.

radera does NOT speak for me.

Neither do you rodney.

If you would bother to do any research you might find that anyone with a permit has ALREADY given law enforcement the right to enter at will and do as they see fit.

It's the main reason some don't go through the process.

usark is probably looking out for itself, but it is not, as far as I can see as of now, our enemy.

And let me clue you in about digs to this site. I know one when I see one and you shot first. You hit yourself in the foot, as so many do, but it's all on you boyo.

This isn't the public. YOU have NO rights here. You GET permission to be a member and FOLLOW the RULES, but that's it.

Maybe you should give them, the rules, a read. Might help you not look so foolish.

Okay, okay you got me. I guess I only speak for 79,995...or so.

So I see this thread is looking alot like the other. Big shock!
There have been some good points brought up though. $100,000+ lobbing is nothing, and it is their job. $12,000 in hotels is nothing. I doubt Andrew stays at every hotel by himself. These expenses are for USARK and their employees, not Andrew.

I am still wondering if you have ever actually had a transaction with USARK. I am guessing not which further shows my and many others opinion that this is a bad attempt to smear someone's name.

I think you're getting somewhere though Rodney. You have picked up 2 or 3 whole people who feel the same way you do. Maybe, when you start the 200th thread on all this you will have some fans. That's a BIG maybe though...

 

[leftycrane]

I like how in the first few pages Rodney responded to every single post that someone made. Now that people have started to make responsible and rational posts here about how ridiculous and absurd he sounds he hasn't said a word in a few pages. Interesting.

I think USARK does wonderful things. And being from Florida I know I have to have a class 3 permit to breed and sell exotic animals. I do believe there need to be regulations on certain things and think that USARK is fighting for the lesser of 2 evil when it comes to certain issues. A total ban vs a restriction of some kind. Find the lesser of 2 evils here. I think you will agree with USARK on that one.