Liesen Line Trick is not a Dom, it's a Codom... Super Trick

[Vittoamp]

This is what I got as a reply after emailing Kevin Winter some questions:

"The parents are a normal and a black pastel. I think Gary Liesen still has them but I do not have any pics. It is possible that the first mutation started in these snakes.

It appears that the codom gene for trick makes yellow just like the codom gene for yellow belly makes ivory. As we know, many codoms make variations of white snakes which still blows my mind. I am sooo glad that a super trick is not a white snake.

I am betting that the yellow in the super trick is xanthism. My trick lesser has much more yellow than a lesser and I bet a super trick lesser wil be a very yellow animal."

 

[john33]

Hey Big your right Barnharts line is very similar, and making sick combs. But still untapped as far as potential. Vitto... axanthic means absence of yellow pigment. That pastel is not a super trick. IMO

 

[pythonpaintjobs]

super trick = every pastel in my collection

 

[Vittoamp]

Hey Big your right Barnharts line is very similar, and making sick combs. But still untapped as far as potential. Vitto... axanthic means absence of yellow pigment. That pastel is not a super trick. IMO

The word is xanthism, not axanthic.

 

[Double B Reptiles]

sounds and looks to me like the trick is heterozygous for a form of recessive pastel (xanthism) if that truly is the "super" trick.

 

[amos1974]

I have a close friend that has a female LLT. when he got it several months ago he was told by Gary that the super form looked like a Pastel.

 

[john33]

Well conscense is super trick=pastel form. Guess i'm alittle disappointed at this stage. Hopefully additional genes will prove more visual results.

 

[Vittoamp]

It may look like a pastel. But I was told that it's getting brighter and richer as it gets older. So it doesn't behave like a pastel, which tend to brown out.


Also here's the history of how Gary got the Trick and what his plans were. He posted this in 2010:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1861614,1861614&key=2010

 

[snakemansnakes]

Well I guess I'll have to second guess about myself getting into the LLT craze now. Major disappointment.

 

[MrBig]

That is one of the threads I was q uoting, I am not sure that a pastel like super is good for the future market of this morph. I guess time will tell if there are any must have combos from this.
I am not surprised that harald isn't impressed, way too many spots for him.
I think the Barnhart line is onto something with his YB Black pastel crosses, whereas the leisen line has focused on isolation of the trick from the black pastel. While I prefer the direction barnhart has taken, I can appreciate the contribution of both projects. I plan to pickup a BP YB from Tom in the next year or so.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

I am actually getting a liesen line black pastel and when talking to gary he said the trick is attached to his line of black pastel.......

The price difference between liesen line BP and trick wouldn't make since for it to be attached to his black pastels. Why would the trick be going for many thousands of dollars and last I knew his line of black pastels were going for a little more than market value. Unless he's marked his black pastels up considerably now that he knows they are two gene animals I guess I haven't kept up with this well enough. In my opinion I would rather have a desert ghost project if this is what the super actually looks like.

 

[MrBig]

It came in attached to the BP gene, but he produces BP's that don't have the trick gene and now produces tricks without the BP gene. The few BP tricks I've seen him let go have been MUCH higher the market value and higher then the single gene trick. I like the desert ghosts, just don't know much about them.

 

[dustinNMpythons]

oh ok makes sense now

 

[Gary liesen]

The TRICK SUPER in the pics has not been proven at this time. He is a baby and should breed this fall.
My name is Gary Liesen, creator of the L.L.T. Line
He came from a TRICK X PASTEL TRICK paring.
In the clutch there were Tricks, Pastel Tricks, and the "SUPER".
My friend did a TRICK X TRICK pairing and one of his offspring was a MIRROR image of my supposed SUPER.
So at this time we believe that they "COULD" be SUPER tricks
I am the breeder of the TRICK line that produced the supposed SUPER and sent pics of same to a friend of mine and that is how they got posted.
Lets hope that it proves itself in the very near breeding future

 

[Focal]

super trick = every pastel in my collection

I challenge you. Post a pastel that looks like that, from your collection.

 

[pythonpaintjobs]

I challenge you. Post a pastel that looks like that, from your collection.

I always like a challenge. Let me know what you think.

 

[MrBig]

Thanks for clearing everything up Gary. Did the one that was identical have as much yellow? or is it possible you have a pastel super here?

 

[glk832]

Whatever it is its nice.. that pastel pythonpaintjobs does look like the super trick but who can say what going on in the gene of the supertrick.... IDK Im not a season breeder JMO...I've always liked the trick since the first I saw one one the Kingsnake ads so who ever is working with it keep doing what u doing...

 

[dustinNMpythons]

I don't really like the trick if thats what the super looks like, I'd rather buy a desert ghost

 

[pythonpaintjobs]

I want to make something clear. I think the Liesen line trick is really cool when mixed with a black pastel. I wasn't trying to discredit the morph. I didn't believe the picture posted was a super trick. If it is a super it would be a real disappointment for me. I stated before I would expect the super to be really "tricked out" maybe like a GHI or something really busy. I'm sure there will be many cool combo's to come out in the future with the trick gene. Only time will tell.