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Bad Guy BUYER BEWARE! horrible after sales service from thegeckokid.com

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clk298

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i just received my leopard gecko yesturday from thegeckokid.com and i must say i am extremely upset. As soon as i brought him home i knew there was somthing funny about him, he kept circling and head is tilted to one side and very clumy keeps falling over when he climbs on something. I then googled the problem and i'm pretty sure its the enigma sydrome, and of course he is an enigma. I was told he was perfectly healthy. I immediately contacted the seller, Jill Roudebush, and told her the issue. She said the problem could have developed due to the stress of the shipping as she said she didn't notice it before. The gecko is already 47 grams and not a baby so i don't know if it actually just started having the problem from shipping or not, i can't say. Would you consider a gecko with enigma sydrome to be perfectly healthy? in my mind i don't think so. I wanted a refund and even agreed to pay $50 for shipping back to her and told her i could even accept it if she wouldn't return the original shipping cost back to me. I just wanted the original purchase price of $110 back. She still refused and said she would only do an exchange BUT i would also have to pay for $50 shipping for a new one to come out. The problem is, there is nothing else i like from her.
So i am very upset because she basically makes it so i can't return him. I would be out $150 extra for shipping for no reason at all.

She just keeps saying its perfectly normal for an enigma gecko to do that and he's perfectly healthy. He may be healthy from diseases and eats fine but having a problem like that is NOT considered 100% healthy.

I think i am being totally reasonable, paying for shipping back and not getting reimburse for original shipping.

This would be my 1st gecko and i must say the experience has been horrible. Now i don't even know what to do :'(
 
I'm really sorry about that.. Did you use a visa card? I'm pretty sure you can call the bank and lodge a complaint and potentially get your money back.
 
i paid through Paypal, i called them and apparently they can't do anything since it's a live animal :(
 
Can you please post any correspondences you had with thegeckokid.com here?

In addition, as one who has dealt with enigmas, the head tilting is present in almost every individual but can be considerably worsened due to stress. Place the gecko in a dark container (preferably in an enclosed rack or a cage with a good hide) and leave it alone for a couple of days, then see if it improves. Also, enigmas are extremely sensitive to bright light. It could be possible that the enigma did not have any bad head tilting problems with the original owner, but the stress of shipping and different housing may have brought it out. I've stopped breeding enigmas after I had a similar issue... an enigma that had no problems with me suddenly developed problems with a buyer. Luckily the sale was local and I simply took the gecko back and refunded the customer.
 
just checked, looks like only $67 was on credit card and the balance of $93 was from my Paypal balance. I will call tomorrow to the credit card company to see if they can do anything for the $67.

Thanks Tkikitty95! At least i'm not the only one who thinks i'm being totally reasonable :)
 
From Their Terms and Conditions....

Health Guarantee:

We give our geckos a 30-day health guarantee. Please contact us immediately with any health issues if for some reason your gecko has them. If improper care and husbandry by the buyer is determined than The Gecko Kid has the right to refuse this health guarantee.
Click to expand...

You need to contact them again, stating they have violated their own terms by refusing the return and that if they do not allow it, you will be forced to contact the BBB, as well as file a claim with your bank (barring a bank transfer or credit card was the funding source on paypal).

I have worked with the BBB a few times, and they almost always get the company to right their wrongs.
 
Looks like you replied while I was typing. sorry about it being payed by paypal balance being as they already said they couldnt help you. hopefully you can at least regain the portion from credit card, or all of it if you can get through to them with the BBB threat.
 
Here is my communication with thegeckokid.com as soon as i noticed an issue from new to old at the bottom:

I am sorry that you are not happy but that is a normal enigma trait . The only thing I can do is exchange him .
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Hi Jill,

Him having a head tilt is definitely a health issue to me, it is not qualified as a perfectly healthy gecko, if it was mentioned to me beforehand, i would not be this upset as i paid $160 for a gecko that has an issue. Now i have to pay $50 to ship him back, but i do want a refund instead of an exchange as you don't have anything i want instead and i am not about to pay another $50 for another one to be shipped to me. It is very unfair to me already. I can accept that you will not refund the shipping cost of $50 that was paid to ship him to me but i do expect the cost of the gecko of $110 to be refunded.
__
I am sorry but i would only do exchanges. He is a healthy gecko he eats good and has no illnesses it is just somthing that could happen with all enigmas. like i said in my last email he didnt show the bad enigma traits but shipping can be very stressful. Unless he has a health problem all shipping would be on you.
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Hi Jill,
> If I just return him for a refund I hope you would at least help me with part of the shipping charges that were paid for him to come to me, as it is not a case of not liking him, it's a case of something being wrong. Hope you understand my situation.
> I have to spend another $50 to return to you and not having any gecko.

>Andrea
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I do not have any bright orange geckos at
This time . Yes I will take him back in exchange for another gecko but you have to cover all shipping charges.
Jill
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Hi Jill,

Thanks for your reply, i will give him a week to see if he stops the head tilting and circling. Looks like he can only turn one way and gets himself in a bind alot. I googled this problem and looks like its a problem that doesn't go away.

If he still is like that after a week, will i be able to return him? Do you have any other geckos that are bright orange in colour that are not enigmas?

Thanks,
Andrea
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I am so sorry it took me so long to get back to you my emails weren't coming through he does not normaly have pro lens but he is an enigma and shipping is very stressful he just needs some settleing time
Jill
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Hi Jill,

He definitely has a pretty bad head tilt, he walks with one side of his head sometimes dragging on the floor as well and is very clumsy and tends to arch his head way back too. I really wish i've known this as i wouldn't have purchased him. Please let me know what i should do.

Thanks,
Andrea
__
Hi Jill,

I noticed that George has a head tilt and circles around, have you noticed this in him before?


Let me know,

Thanks!
Andrea
 
AGoodwin, apparently she says the enigma sydrome is still considered to be a healthy gecko.
Thanks for the tip with the BBB, i will look into it as well, but her not really being a big business or anything, i don't know if it'll do anything.
 
unless this syndrome is something that EVERY enigma has, then it is not a perfectly healthy gecko. I personally dont know the answer to that, but I am sure you could find out.
 
This is normal behavior for Enigmas, especially after being shipped or otherwise stressed. Were you aware prior to purchasing the geckos that the Enigma morph is like that? That being said, in your email you had offered to give the gecko a week of settling in time to which the seller agreed to, and I was wondering why you decided against this.
 
But that's the issue, EVERY enigma DOES have the syndrome to a greater or lesser extent. I'll requote myself from above:

snowgyre said:
In addition, as one who has dealt with enigmas, the head tilting is present in almost every individual but can be considerably worsened due to stress. Place the gecko in a dark container (preferably in an enclosed rack or a cage with a good hide) and leave it alone for a couple of days, then see if it improves. Also, enigmas are extremely sensitive to bright light. It could be possible that the enigma did not have any bad head tilting problems with the original owner, but the stress of shipping and different housing may have brought it out. I've stopped breeding enigmas after I had a similar issue... an enigma that had no problems with me suddenly developed problems with a buyer. Luckily the sale was local and I simply took the gecko back and refunded the customer.
Click to expand...

Now, this still doesn't justify not accepting a refund when the customer is clearly unhappy, but I do think that the gecko needs to be given a few days to settle down. Enigmas do not handle stress well in my experience, that's why I no longer work with them. I do think it is premature to try to create a claim with the credit card company when the gecko could make a very large recovery in the next few days. The enigma tilt is a neurological problem in every enigma... it has nothing to do with the actual health of the gecko. It's similar to the wobble in spider and woma ball pythons. Only if the disorder is particularly severe will it affect the health of the animal.
 
AGoodwin said:
unless this syndrome is something that EVERY enigma has, then it is not a perfectly healthy gecko. I personally dont know the answer to that, but I am sure you could find out.
Click to expand...

Enigmas are similar to Spider ball pythons in that they both have the potential to express the balance issues. It does not mean they are unhealthy, it just means they are Enigmas (or Spiders!).
 
unfortunately i was not aware of this problem beforehand, i wish she would've said something and she knew i was a new owner. I am still going to give him time to settle regardless as it would be too stressful for him to even consider shipping him back so quickly. I asked her IF the condition was not to improve, could she provide me with a refund with me paying for shipping costs and she just said only exchange and i'd still have to pay to have another one out. She would not be out any money at all so i feel that she's been very unfair. I was so excited to receive my 1st gecko and now i'm just left with disappointment.
 
Here's a video I took two years ago of an enigma I hatched with particularly bad enigma disorder. She was a perfectly healthy animal but did have to be hand fed because her aim was absolutely horrible. I do realize my hands are shaking in the video but it is remarkably difficult to feed a gecko and film at the same time. Also, don't mind the poop in the tub. She was an absolute hog and pooped almost daily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UAc-czUkU&feature=g-upl&context=G2af8d3bAUAAAAAAAFAA

I'm sorry you were not aware of the problem before hand, but the enigma disorder is extremely well known and has been for several years. It is possible that thekidgecko did not notice any extreme head tilting in her care, the disorder can rear its ugly head rather spontaneously in response to stress. I think both of you are at equal fault here; her for assuming you knew about enigma disorder and for you not doing your research ahead of time. Technically, the presence of enigma disorder would not violate the terms of service over a healthy gecko. At this point, a refund is a matter of customer satisfaction than holding true to any terms of service.
 
Every Enigma leopard gecko can potentially do the circling when stressed. they will eat,grow and breed like a perfectly healthy leo will.

I produced a few generations and could not breed this behavior out of them so I stopped breeding them.it does not mean it is a sick leo in my opinion.

AGoodwin said:
unless this syndrome is something that EVERY enigma has, then it is not a perfectly healthy gecko. I personally dont know the answer to that, but I am sure you could find out.
Click to expand...
 
If you bought an engima, I would hope you know that it comes with issues. They can show no signs, then the stress of shipping or breeding can bring it out. I'm sorry to say that just goes with having an engima. I'm sorry you weren't aware of these issues with enigmas before as it should be well stated for anyone who is selling them, but a circling enigma after shipping I would not consider unhealthy.
 
snowgyre said:
Here's a video I took two years ago of an enigma I hatched with particularly bad enigma disorder. She was a perfectly healthy animal but did have to be hand fed because her aim was absolutely horrible. I do realize my hands are shaking in the video but it is remarkably difficult to feed a gecko and film at the same time. Also, don't mind the poop in the tub. She was an absolute hog and pooped almost daily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UAc-czUkU&feature=g-upl&context=G2af8d3bAUAAAAAAAFAA

I'm sorry you were not aware of the problem before hand, but the enigma disorder is extremely well known and has been for several years. It is possible that thekidgecko did not notice any extreme head tilting in her care, the disorder can rear its ugly head rather spontaneously in response to stress. I think both of you are at equal fault here; her for assuming you knew about enigma disorder and for you not doing your research ahead of time. Technically, the presence of enigma disorder would not violate the terms of service over a healthy gecko. At this point, a refund is a matter of customer satisfaction than holding true to any terms of service.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting that video, I actually came across it a while back when I was considering buying an enigma and as a novice gecko keeper it helped me decide against such a move until I had more experience. Regardless, she is an amazing beast.
 
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