Bad Guy Andrew Potts- I want my money back

[Show Me]

Well that's good, but it still doesn't justify not sending someone THEIR money back when you failed to fulfill your end of a deal. THAT is not exactly credible.

As I said before I think it's in Andrews best interest to give the money back then press criminal charges on them. However there still is a small chance that this snake arrived alive because who would trust this buyers word? Blackmail can get you years in jail.... what Andrew has done would not get him one day in jail. There is a big difference here.

 

[ShadowAceD]

As I said before I think it's in Andrews best interest to give the money back then press criminal charges on them. However there still is a small chance that this snake arrived alive because who would trust this buyers word? Blackmail can get you years in jail.... what Andrew has done would not get him one day in jail. There is a big difference here.

And there's always a small chance in any criminal case with a guilty verdict that the person is innocent and vice versa. The evidence supports DoA due to shipment. Not some weird, ridiculous, malicious plot to kill the animal, make it look like it was subjected to extreme heat or whatever else.

Stealing someone's money is punishable by law, so I would not be too quick to assume that.

He failed to provide a product as it was supposed to be provided. Therefore, he owes a replacement or a refund.

 

[Show Me]

And there's always a small chance in any criminal case with a guilty verdict that the person is innocent and vice versa. The evidence supports DoA due to shipment. Not some weird, ridiculous, malicious plot to kill the animal, make it look like it was subjected to extreme heat or whatever else.

Stealing someone's money is punishable by law, so I would not be too quick to assume that.

He failed to provide a product as it was supposed to be provided. Therefore, he owes a replacement or a refund.

I've been around a few lawyers. This is not stealing, he shipped the product. If the buyers isnt happy he can try and work it out with the seller or file a civil case. But oh no he uses blackmail to try and get his way plus tried to get more $$$$ worth in snakes than he spent. Really smart move.

 

[bigdogg]

I say instead of shipping the animal. Andrew waits for Tinley to come around in october and hand delivery the snake. It wasn't an adult so no use for it now. Plus breeding season is over especially for a brand new male. And andrew feeds pretty good so I know he will get it just as big as the op would have. That way there is no issues with shipping and there is nothing that can go wrong. OP can look over the snake in person and then get his replacement and call it good. That is what I would do. I know it sucks having to wait 5-6 months for a replacement but better then nothing. And better then risking it agian.

 

[Show Me]

I say instead of shipping the animal. Andrew waits for Tinley to come around in october and hand delivery the snake. It wasn't an adult so no use for it now. Plus breeding season is over especially for a brand new male. And andrew feeds pretty good so I know he will get it just as big as the op would have. That way there is no issues with shipping and there is nothing that can go wrong. OP can look over the snake in person and then get his replacement and call it good. That is what I would do. I know it sucks having to wait 5-6 months for a replacement but better then nothing. And better then risking it agian.

If it's decided that a replacement is to be given... I think your idea is excellent.

 

[bigdogg]

Yeah well if Andrew decides to replace/refund. It is smarter for him to replace as well it is cheaper. This way at least he can offset the cost of the second hytecparahet from the first one and it would be like he wholesaled them off instead of losing another 4500 dollars. I could understand him not wanting to refund cash. There is very few reason people refund cash and that is if a replacement is not available at all. I know if andrew wouldn't have got the "blackmail email" he wouldn't have an issue sending another one back even without the dead one being sent back to him. Andrew and bob are both stand up guys and some of the nicest guys I have ever talked to at a show. I met them both in Daytona 2 years in a row and they knew I wasn't buying yet still got animals out to show me.

 

[Show Me]

Yeah well if Andrew decides to replace/refund. It is smarter for him to replace as well it is cheaper. This way at least he can offset the cost of the second hytecparahet from the first one and it would be like he wholesaled them off instead of losing another 4500 dollars. I could understand him not wanting to refund cash. There is very few reason people refund cash and that is if a replacement is not available at all. I know if andrew wouldn't have got the "blackmail email" he wouldn't have an issue sending another one back even without the dead one being sent back to him. Andrew and bob are both stand up guys and some of the nicest guys I have ever talked to at a show. I met them both in Daytona 2 years in a row and they knew I wasn't buying yet still got animals out to show me.

I agree with you. I figured the "blackmail email" is the reason he has not been willing to refund them, and I can't say I blame him. I hope he doesn't send them money back, all they should get is a same priced replacement and then some jail time for extortion. LOL

 

[HerpHobbiest]

Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal embarrassing, disgraceful or damaging information about a person to the public, family, spouse or associates unless money is paid to purchase silence. It is a form of extortion. Because the information is usually substantially true, it is not revealing the information that is criminal, but demanding money to withhold it.

The Hytec ParaHet was the pick of the litter... A littermate may not have been acceptable to Kevin or his partner, Sean...

On the "BLACK MAIL" email, it states, "Our money back, or a better animal"...

I see it as we can settle this like adults or I may be forced to post about my bad transaction with you... And, I will take you to court for the $4,500.00 + shipping + legal costs...

Andrew Potts said,

From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: aztec
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 7:32 AM

Sean, please go ahead and post and tell everyone any thing you want. I'm begging you to please do everything you said you were going to do. Take care, Andrew

Kevin posted it...

I do not the see the "BLACK MAIL" email sticking in a court of law...

However, The keeping of the $4,500.00 + is more likely to stick in a court of law... There is enough evidence to show that the Hytec ParaHet died in transport with no fault from Kevin Bailey...

 

[Show Me]

Oh that email is plenty proof of blackmail.

They demanded a male sharp albino aztec or a male anery aztec or to ship the money back. Then he made a bunch of threats and warned him to chose wisely. Which is summed up as...if you send him one of those high dollar snakes we will keep our mouths shut, if you send us money we will tell everyone nasty things about you. Also they said forget about the littermates, they don't want a replacement. Yeah this is extortion at its best.

 

[bigdogg]

Now see Luis I don't know if you know Bob or Andrew but they have many litters of these Aztec mutations. Im sure they have another that look just as good. I again don't want to stick up for bob and andrew. They are good guys in my book and still will be after this goes whichever way. As I don't agree with how whoever actually bought this animal dealt with it at all. Slander to a business is nothing to mess around with.

With the replacement thing it all depends on how bob and andy's tos is stated. In my personal T.O.S I state that there are no cash refunds. Andrew can simply give them 4600 dollars credit toward the next purchase of an animal which is what I would do in this case. If they don't want to use it that is up to them. But again just my point of view. Both parties are in the wrong here. Not just andrew and not just the op.

By the look of the snake in the pictures. You should have been able to smell the death coming from that box when he got it. Therefore if you smell death record every single step of opening that package. I would have even had the fedex guy standing there to watch me open it. That way there is tons of proof of DOA. Then contact the seller and go from there. Lots of things should have happened differently but they didn't. It is up to Andrew and the OP to settle this now. Whether it goes to court or a simple talk on the telephone. Either way should be settled

 

[HerpHobbiest]

I see your point...

I see that he wanted his money back, or a nicer animal...

If I purchased the pick of the litter. I would not want a less nice animal for the same $$$$

And, does that mean Andrew Potts is clear to keep the $4,500.00 + dollars?

 

[Show Me]

Maybe,or maybe not. It would be in the best interest of the buyer to try and work this out with the seller, but if the buyer feels it can't be worked out... he then can sue in civil court. But using criminal ways to push the seller around will not work, it will only get you jail time and may also result in restitution which can cost a heck of a lot more than the $4,600. Also want to say... I have a feeling even if he went to small claims court now they might throw the case out since most judges will not help out someone who has tried to use a illegal way to get more than they are owed.

 

[BG2388]

Man, you guys are really going to make some lawyers rich and end up both with shattered reputations. Everyone in my family is a lawyer and the first thing they would tell you is no one wins in 90% of lawsuits except the attorney. I would never buy from any of the people involved in this "transaction" I am just some small timer that collects bearded dragons and dreams of getting a tortoise though. I just thought I would comment on just how stupid it is to blackmail someone in writing and also how stupid it is to not just pony up 4g's to save your reputation... When you start dealing with lawyers you are both going to be paying lots more than that in time and money. Why are so many herp people so shady.

 

[BG2388]

Sorry for the bad grammar but I just read 18pages of that and my eyes are tired. I read this board to try and learn who to stay away from in the industry and who are the good guys. I am very happy I have only had one bad transaction in my life and that involved a bearded dragon with poor eyesight. Instead of freaking out about it I just hand feed it. I cannot imagine someone murdering the animals for monetary gain or blackmail reasons but that is about as shady as it gets (if it happened)

 

[Show Me]

Man, you guys are really going to make some lawyers rich and end up both with shattered reputations. Everyone in my family is a lawyer and the first thing they would tell you is no one wins in 90% of lawsuits except the attorney. I would never buy from any of the people involved in this "transaction" I am just some small timer that collects bearded dragons and dreams of getting a tortoise though. I just thought I would comment on just how stupid it is to blackmail someone in writing and also how stupid it is to not just pony up 4g's to save your reputation... When you start dealing with lawyers you are both going to be paying lots more than that in time and money. Why are so many herp people so shady.

They are not going to make some lawyer rich. Andrew doesn't need a lawyer for a criminal case. All he needs to do is fill out a report and show up to testify, the district attorney will take care of the rest . Sean can be represented by a public defender however if he wants his own lawyer he can spend the money. Even if they want go after each other in civil court... many states allow you to sue for up $5000, heck I think the state of IL allows up to $10,000. No lawyers are needed in small claims, small court fee and that's it. I have a hard time believing that everyone in your family is a lawyer.

 

[BG2388]

I really don't care if you believe that or not. Good luck with all the litigation. If I felt like going down the family tree you would realize you are wrong, but I have nothing to prove to you. I don't even give a crap except for the animal that died needlessly. I have a hard time believing you live in Missouri. That is about as baseless a claim as the one you made about my family. You seem like quite a vile and ill tempered person. I have no problem making that claim after reading 18pages of your junk. Public Defenders are awesome if you like to lose. You still have to pay court cost. A decent lawyer wouldn't take this case anyway. It would be a waste of their time. Why don't you go back to bashing the OP who got sent the dead animal.
Father J.D Univ. Alabama 1971
Brother J.D. Univ Alabama 2007
Sister-in-Law J.D. Univ. Alabama 2007
peace.....I could have listed 15-20 more if I felt like including extended family, but I am too tired and lazy and frankly don't give a crap

 

[Show Me]

I really don't care if you believe that or not. Good luck with all the litigation. If I felt like going down the family tree you would realize you are wrong, but I have nothing to prove to you. I don't even give a crap except for the animal that died needlessly. I have a hard time believing you live in Missouri. That is about as baseless a claim as the one you made about my family. You seem like quite a vile and ill tempered person. I have no problem making that claim after reading 18pages of your junk. Public Defenders are awesome if you like to lose. You still have to pay court cost. A decent lawyer wouldn't take this case anyway. It would be a waste of their time. Why don't you go back to bashing the OP who got sent the dead animal.
Father J.D Univ. Alabama 1971
Brother J.D. Univ Alabama 2007
Sister-in-Law J.D. Univ. Alabama 2007
peace.....I could have listed 15-20 more if I felt like including extended family, but I am too tired and lazy and frankly don't give a crap

I really don't care if you believe that or not. Good luck with all the litigation. If I felt like going down the family tree you would realize you are wrong, but I have nothing to prove to you. I don't even give a crap except for the animal that died needlessly. I have a hard time believing you live in Missouri. That is about as baseless a claim as the one you made about my family. You seem like quite a vile and ill tempered person. I have no problem making that claim after reading 18pages of your junk. Public Defenders are awesome if you like to lose. You still have to pay court cost. A decent lawyer wouldn't take this case anyway. It would be a waste of their time. Why don't you go back to bashing the OP who got sent the dead animal.
Father J.D Univ. Alabama 1971
Brother J.D. Univ Alabama 2007
Sister-in-Law J.D. Univ. Alabama 2007
peace.....I could have listed 15-20 more if I felt like including extended family, but I am too tired and lazy and frankly don't give a crap

No reason to get your panties in a bunch. You stated EVERYONE in your family was a lawyer. I was right, not ALL of them are. My family consist of mayor, lawyer and teachers however I wouldn't state all my family are lawyers. Duh.

 

[BG2388]

it is 2am no clothes here have a good one

 

[Fangthane]

I've been around a few lawyers. This is not stealing, he shipped the product. If the buyers isnt happy he can try and work it out with the seller or file a civil case.

Really!? That's a bold (read: poorly thought out, IMO) statement. You really think the onus is on the buyer to jump through hoops or seek legal action to fix the seller's mistake? I think you're coming pretty far out of left field on this one. Live arrival only guaranteed through litigation if you piss him off...Hell of a precedent to encourage, in regards to standing behind one's TOS.

Blackmail can get you years in jail.... what Andrew has done would not get him one day in jail. There is a big difference here.

Oh, I don't know about that. While we're going out of our way to spin things and miss the real point while arguing moot ones, the buyer paid a lot of cash for a live, healthy snake. What he received was a dead and rotting one. That could just as easily be twisted and labled as fraud. Mr. Potts keeps asking the buyer to prove, via posting of emails, that he didn't approve of how his associates were handling the situation. So, turnabout is fair play. I mean, can the seller prove that the snake was alive when he sent it out? Maybe he had a very recently deceased boa that he saw as an opportunity to turn into a quick $4500. Does he happen to have a continuous video clip showing the living snake being packed and sealed in the box and that box being driven to and handed over to the shipping agent? My own ideas are no more approaching ad ridiculum than those of the conspiracy theorists that support the seller's refusal to do the right thing.

Unless people really buy into the X-Files fan-fiction-like conspiracy theories, it's pretty hard to paint a picture that doesn't involve the snake dying due to the seller's shipping negligence. It doesn't take a specialized degree in thermodynamics to speculate on how it likely went down: snake shipped in a very small, styrofoam-insulated compartment with 2 heat packs in 80+ degree weather. Said styrofoam box is placed within a cardboard box which is then transported in a large metal box (delivery truck), possibly having very restricted air flow due to being surrounded by others boxes on all sides. Pretty easy, for me, at least, to see how this could lead to a slow-roasted boa.

Bottom line: the fact that the buyer seems to have made the mistake of aligning himself with some shady characters DOES NOT, in and of itself, negate the seller's extremely likely responsibility for the snake's death. If he's that salty over what he believes to be blackmail, then he should pursue it in court against those that can be proven to be directly responsible for it. Meanwhile, what he owes the actual buyer, I believe, is an entirely different situation.

 

[bsharrah]

Yikes. Someone just showed their true colors. Refusing to be in the wrong and make amends for an error. Prob just made it to the top of a whole lot of people's "do not buy from list".

Definitely made it to the top of mine. This bad guy thread appears to be well justified. By hiding behind the "but they tried to blackmail me" BS, it just shows the seller will look for any excuse to avoid doing the right thing. I would avoid doing business with him as well as those supporting his decision.