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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Brandon Griffey

I didn't make the BOI thread I was called out so that's why i'm here. It's not about the money no money was ever exchange. All my animals are healthy and clean. You all can keep the drama and CSI investigation going. I don't have time for ball python politics it's all ready enough drama in this hobby
 
I can bet there'd be plenty of Dollars selling off the offspring of that BP.




Snakemanbonk said:
I didn't make the BOI thread I was called out so that's why i'm here. It's not about the money no money was ever exchange. All my animals are healthy and clean. You all can keep the drama and CSI investigation going. I don't have time for ball python politics it's all ready enough drama in this hobby
Click to expand...
 
Snakemanbonk said:
I didn't make the BOI thread I was called out so that's why i'm here.
Click to expand...

You were going to but got beaten to the punch.


Xavier said:
From: Brandon Griffey <[email protected]>
To: Xavier Springer <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Auto 2

That ain't what we agreed on. When I talk to you the 2 Weeks ago. If shipping stress killed then then how come the snakes i shipped you ain't dead then? They are babies and we didn't ship overnight it was in a few hours. You need to do what's right I did my part. if I sent you a snake and died less then two weeks I would replaced it. I don't want to go public with this and tell people you have sick snakes but i'm going to have to if you don't make a decision by 10 am tomorrow
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Snakemanbonk said:
It's not about the money no money was ever exchange.
Click to expand...

So we are to believe you were breeding these snakes to what... donate to charity??!! You are breeding to make money. You are using haphazard practices to cut corners and increase your profit margin. This loss is a simple cost of doing the kind of business you are engaged in. You want to act professional and pump out the morphs with little regard for the animals? Then act like a "professional" and write off the loss.
 
So your defense is that since he didn't try to talk you out of breeding it right away, that means he practices poor husbandry and played some part in the Potion's death? He ASKED if you intended to breed it right away, since I'm guessing he had some reason to assume that that was your intention. He didn't TELL you to do it. It's his responsibility to tell you how to handle your own collection? He fulfilled his part of the bargain by supplying a live, ostensibly healthy snake that you were happy with upon receipt. Beyond that, it's not his place to dictate how you choose to treat the animal.
 
since I'm guessing he had some reason to assume that that was your intention.....Then Xavier misrepresented the snake when it was posted for sale as a breeder. So everyone here still only keep ball pythons to look at, Is it a crime to have your hobby pay for itself? I think not. And to take it as a loss, you have to ask yourself would you....
 
Glaring question since I haven't seen it touched on...

It is unfortunate the animal died, but you did pair it with two females over a period of 10 days. I understand being upset by the loss, but you are benefiting from the purchase irregardless of the snake's death. I think it's unfair of you expect a full return of the snakes you submitted for the trade when you very likely could produce two clutches from that male.

Ultimately, it's a sucky situation. I don't believe in the least that Xavier knew the snake had internal ulcers and I don't think he should be held accountable for that. We are dealing with live animals and it happens. However me, I would offer the other party something to compensate for the unfortunate situation if only as a show of good faith to a customer.
 
Kevin S said:
since I'm guessing he had some reason to assume that that was your intention.....Then Xavier misrepresented the snake when it was posted for sale as a breeder. So everyone here still only keep ball pythons to look at, Is it a crime to have your hobby pay for itself? I think not. And to take it as a loss, you have to ask yourself would you....
Click to expand...

If I made the foolish mistake to bypass quarantine procedure and immediately place a stressed out animal with larger animals and stress it out more and it perished as a result, even if it happened 24 hours later. Yes, I would take it as a loss because of my own stupidity. Luckily I dont practice hap hazard husbandry.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
Glaring question since I haven't seen it touched on...

It is unfortunate the animal died, but you did pair it with two females over a period of 10 days. I understand being upset by the loss, but you are benefiting from the purchase irregardless of the snake's death. I think it's unfair of you expect a full return of the snakes you submitted for the trade when you very likely could produce two clutches from that male.

Ultimately, it's a sucky situation. I don't believe in the least that Xavier knew the snake had internal ulcers and I don't think he should be held accountable for that. We are dealing with live animals and it happens. However me, I would offer the other party something to compensate for the unfortunate situation if only as a show of good faith to a customer.
Click to expand...

I do agree with your last paragraph, I personally would offer some sort of compensation, even though I do not believe it to be mandatory in this situation.
 
Kevin S said:
since I'm guessing he had some reason to assume that that was your intention.....Then Xavier misrepresented the snake when it was posted for sale as a breeder. So everyone here still only keep ball pythons to look at, Is it a crime to have your hobby pay for itself? I think not. And to take it as a loss, you have to ask yourself would you....
Click to expand...

Beyond these comments, I'm not going to waste any more time on someone who's not willing/able to be rational or logical.

If the Potion was actively breeding females while in Xavier's collection, then it's not even remotely misrepresenting it to call it a "breeder". Pretty basic stuff, there.

It's not THAT Brandon/Tom chose to breed it, it's WHEN, that is the crux of this issue. If they had practiced quarantine procedures, or even provided a reasonable acclimation period, the situation would likely be very different at this point. If they had followed sensible protocols, and the Potion still died, they might have had a leg to stand on, in demanding reimbursement.

However, they did not do this. As it stands, they chose a course of action that shows a blatant disregard for the Potion's well-being, as well as for their entire collection. If you're willing to take such reckless risks, you damn well better be willing to accept responsibility for the consequences, when they backfire in your face.
 
ApexPredatorBoids said:
Beyond these comments, I'm not going to waste any more time on someone who's not willing/able to be rational or logical.

If the Potion was actively breeding females while in Xavier's collection, then it's not even remotely misrepresenting it to call it a "breeder". Pretty basic stuff, there.

It's not THAT Brandon/Tom chose to breed it, it's WHEN, that is the crux of this issue. If they had practiced quarantine procedures, or even provided a reasonable acclimation period, the situation would likely be very different at this point. If they had followed sensible protocols, and the Potion still died, they might have had a leg to stand on, in demanding reimbursement.

However, they did not do this. As it stands, they chose a course of action that shows a blatant disregard for the Potion's well-being, as well as for their entire collection. If you're willing to take such reckless risks, you better be willing to accept responsibility for the consequences, when they backfire in your face.
Click to expand...

:iagree: I am not even remotely inclined to suggest that the seller offer any kind of recompense. The buyer threatened the seller with a Bad BOI, he showed a complete disregard for the health of both the animals being used as breeders (females) and the male he received; and he didn't have possession of the animal when it was breeding and died.

While he may or may not produce clutches from the pairings already done...if the emotional appeal to "give" them something is successful, then they will have made out like bandits.
 
deborahbroadus said:
While he may or may not produce clutches from the pairings already done...if the emotional appeal to "give" them something is successful, then they will have made out like bandits.
Click to expand...

And may set an unfortunate precedent that if one has a big enough tantrum, whines loud enough, long enough, and includes the words 'customer service', one can buffalo the other party into making an unwarranted financial sacrifice.
 
I have never had an animal with ulcers so I don't have any experience with them. That being said, if they (Brandon/Tom) didn't recognize the snake was sick, how was Xavier supposed to know? On FB, Brandon made a statement that the snake was fed before being shipped but I thought the vet said his stomach was empty. Did it have a bowel movement, and if so was it normal? Just a couple of questions that I have been wondering about.
 
Xavier said:
On Apr 19, 2012 12:44 PM, "Xavier Springer" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey,

I'm working 5pm - 5am this week and just got up @ noon. My wife said I missed your call while I was sleeping. Just saw the vids, thanks for sending them. Let me know when the biopsy results come back.

Oh you guys were talking about it feeding, his last feeding dates were 3-08, 3-15, 3-20, & 3-24.
Click to expand...
Xavier said:
The snake had its last meal 12 days prior to being shipped
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It was shipped on 4/6 while it's last feeding was 3/24. So the statement Brandon made on FB regarding the snake being shipped with food inside it appears to be another piece of self-serving fiction. The necropsy was nearly 4 weeks after the last meal, as it apparently never ate after leaving Xavier's care, so it's not surprising that the vet would find an empty stomach. I don't recall seeing any reference to bowel movements.
 
axeman said:
I have never had an animal with ulcers so I don't have any experience with them. That being said, if they (Brandon/Tom) didn't recognize the snake was sick, how was Xavier supposed to know? On FB, Brandon made a statement that the snake was fed before being shipped but I thought the vet said his stomach was empty. Did it have a bowel movement, and if so was it normal? Just a couple of questions that I have been wondering about.
Click to expand...

Yes the snake had two bowel movements. It had one in the snake bag that snake was shipped to me in at the air port. When I first open the box at delta that was the first thing I notice the bag was wet and smelled bad. It just looked like normal snake waste. If you go back to the dead snake pic on page one you will see it had another bowel movement if you look on the sides of the tub.
 
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
 
ReptileGeek181 said:
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
Click to expand...


Lucille said:
And may set an unfortunate precedent that if one has a big enough tantrum, whines loud enough, long enough, and includes the words 'customer service', one can buffalo the other party into making an unwarranted financial sacrifice.
Click to expand...

The buffaloes are out in force I see.
 
ReptileGeek181 said:
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
Click to expand...

Rectify what exactly?

Show me proof the ulcers were pre-existing and the Salmonella was contracted 12-72 hours (the window of infection and subsequent "activiation" as it were) in Xavier's care. The period of time Salmonella is known to kill without treatment following exposure and infection is four to seven days. Obviously, it can happen very quickly. Ulcers are hard to pinpoint on time of flaring and can only be speculated upon.

Therefore, you cannot say Xavier is definitely to blame, because it is impossible to pinpoint.

Here's what can be said:

When you fail to take the proper precautions to follow a line of deductive reasoning (i.e. refusing to quarantine an animal and taking it from a stressful situation of being shipped to another stressful situation of co-habitating with another animal whether it actually bred it or not), then you take all liability of the situation upon yourself. There was no effort on Brandon or his breeding partner (whatever he is) part to ensure that they were not liable if a snake that appeared outwardly healthy suddenly died.

Just to clarify, that is part of the point of a quarantine. You assume all animals, no matter where they come from, have a risk of contaminating your collection with something else or dying of a pre-existing condition.

If you refuse to do this simple thing then if the animal dies in your care, you must assume liability because you forced a change in the variables. How does anyone know Xavier is more at fault than they are for thrusting a stressful situation upon the very young ball python?

Need I point out again he was a developing juvenile and not an established adult?

What part of "stress can and does kill reptiles" do you not understand? Are you ignorant to this fact? If you are, it is fine, but anyone with even basic knowledge of these animals will tell you that stress can cause an animal to go belly up quickly especially with a compromised immune system complicated by the presence of a potentially lethal bacterial infection which had the perfect gateway to infiltrate the snakes system and overtake it.

They knowingly and thoughtlessly put the snake at risk. It is their fault he died because they put the control of the situation in their hands, period.
 
ReptileGeek181 said:
Xavier you should do something to rectify this situation. If you don't, it makes you look like a greedy person and perspective future buyers will hesitate to do business with you.
Click to expand...

Also, you know who looks greedy?

Someone who throws a male into a tub with a female to breed the day he pulls it out of a shipping box.
 
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