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So....Who is going to screw up first?

SPJ

SPJ

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I wonder what seller is going to be the first to completely screw over the entire hobby and ship a burm?
Looks like all the ads out there state a shipped price or how much extra shipping will be.
As of March 23rd, you cannot ship burms.
I say the first violation will occur within 60 days.
There is always one that will screw it up for all the rest.
 
The first violation....as the first person to ship a burm, or the first person to get caught & prosecuted?
I'd be willing to bet that the first illegal shipping has already occurred.


**edit: I just went and looked at some ads on KS...the very first one I opened stated that as of March 23, burms were only available for instate sales. That was the only seller that I noticed acknowledging the new law (I'll give credit where it is due - it was Ken Foose)
 
hhmoore said:
The first violation....as the first person to ship a burm, or the first person to get caught & prosecuted?
I'd be willing to bet that the first illegal shipping has already occurred.
Click to expand...

I agree. The first shipping violation has probably happened. I am figuring the first time someone is caught shipping a burm. Once someone gets caught, look out. The HSUS and all the other factions trying to ban these animals will be given all the ammunition they need served up on a silver platter.
 
hhmoore said:
**edit: I just went and looked at some ads on KS...the very first one I opened stated that as of March 23, burms were only available for instate sales. That was the only seller that I noticed acknowledging the new law (I'll give credit where it is due - it was Ken Foose)
Click to expand...

Big thumbs up to him. He appears to be the only one who is listing in state sales only.
 
To do that, they will have to start opening/inspecting packages....or enforcing the labeling requirements that are already in place (and, even then, they'll have to open to guarantee accurate labeling). Actually, upon further thought, I realize that the above isn't true...they could order a burm, and intercept the shipment - is that considered entrapment??

From my place on the sideline, I'd say that a quick, highly publicized seizure would send the message home...if that is their goal. If they're after numbers; better to wait a few months, let people notice the lack of enforcement. I think there are people out there that would turn in other sellers...and, if that doesn't happen, more people will start taking chances. A few days of grabbing the telltale white boxes for inspection will probably yield some illegally shipped animals and other Lacey Act violations.
 
All they need is one burm found being shipped and the media, politicians, and HSUS will have a field day.
The sad part is you know that someone will end up shipping one rather than lose a sale.
 
SPJ said:
All they need is one burm found being shipped and the media, politicians, and HSUS will have a field day.
The sad part is you know that someone will end up shipping one rather than lose a sale.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I'm sure this will be the case.
 
SPJ said:
media, politicians, and HSUS will have a field day.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that perhaps the articles might be already written and plans/speeches made for when it does happen. There are times when research is done and articles written and saved, ready to be run when needed. For big deals like important elections, several articles are written and the appropriate one used. (From time to time newspapers have been known to run the wrong one).
No question, it's a land mine waiting to happen.
 
I wouldn't put it past HSUS to go to a show and find a seller that came from out of state and brought burms with them to sell or be an out of state buyer and have one sold to them.
 
SPJ said:
I wouldn't put it past HSUS to go to a show and find a seller that came from out of state and brought burms with them to sell or be an out of state buyer and have one sold to them.
Click to expand...

But a responsible show promoter should catch that.
 
hhmoore said:
Actually, upon further thought, I realize that the above isn't true...they could order a burm, and intercept the shipment - is that considered entrapment??
Click to expand...

I am sure that someone could try to claim that it was entrapment but, under the situation you mention, it would not be entrapment since the seller is only provided with the opportunity, to break the law, but is not persuaded/influenced, by agents or officers, to do so.
 
since when is it against the law to ship a snake from the north part of a state to the southern the only thing thats law is it cant move out of the state i am correct on this right
 
burm_daddy said:
since when is it against the law to ship a snake from the north part of a state to the southern the only thing thats law is it cant move out of the state i am correct on this right
Click to expand...

Everything goes to/through either Memphis, or Indianapolis no matter where you're shipping it.

Technically, you'd be sending the animal across state lines.

Best just not to offer or seek shipping for these animals. If it's within your state, do a meet up to pick the animal up.
 
Yup Shadera, that was my thought too. No packages could be shipped at all. Still, not as many know about the law change, people who visit snake forums know, but not even all forums are as up on this news as the snake specific communities.
 
well im sorry but i know for a fact me shipping a snake from vegas to reno its going to go to Tennessee and it wouldn't be against the law if i had the same state shipping to and from if the shipper takes it out of state they cant arrest me i didnt ask it to go out of state
 
i have shipped about 25 to 30 snakes and only had about 4 go to tennesse and those were going to the east coast and i see where the packages go i look at the tracking thing every few hrs when i ship a snake
 
.... The animals are NOT supposed to cross state lines if it is a commercial sale or purchase, Just because the SHIPPER does it does not mean you are not responsible.

Where do you get your logic that its not "against the law" if it says the same state. IT STILL LEFT THE STATE.
 
since the ban i haven't shipped anything that left the state and im not disagreeing with u i actually agree with u but what im saying is how can i be doing somthing illegal if i dont know that the package will go out of state when i ship it cuz im shipping it to the southern part of the same state im in ?
 
But, now you DO know that it's going to leave the state if you do that. It's one thing to claim ignorance, and another to know, then do it anyways.

Seriously, if your packages aren't going through the 2 cities I mentioned above, you're not shipping FedEx overnight. (For some reason, I'm doubting you ship air ...) The only shipping methods I've ever seen stay in-state when I'm shipping stuff to a pal nearby is ground. And you shouldn't be sending animals that way.
 
ok well i have a question for u are u saying that when i ship my clutch of king snakes from vegas to my buddy in northern california they are going to go all the way to Memphis?
 
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