Bad Guy Manny Frade of Prefect Predators

[Fangthane]

... I'm not taking position...

Oh, really?

If you read all the content you can know that Jendee accept the T+ deal thats allow Manny to have the Sqtl for another season, so it was a compensation.

Manny and Jendee get confused each one on his own sides in a lot of ways, it happened a lot but Jendee never, ever should have sold that Male VPI T+.

You haven't taken a position...yeah, ok. It may suit your purposes to have us think otherwise, but the truth seems pretty apparent. You've clearly decided that manny is right in keeping her snake until his ex post facto conditions are met. That's taking a position.

...I'm only saying that you guys can stop the pollution of one name.

If the majority of us feel that manny is clearly in wrong, why would we express opinions to the contrary, by saying that Jendee is the bad guy? That idea simply doesn't make any kind of sense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed that you like to dodge questions. Since I honestly answered yours, it's only fair that you return the favor:

...Not gonna waste a pair of kwbs on her, only to see another boi a few weeks later of how I gypt her and only sent her a pair....

After reading the previous quote, how can you justify the following statement?

BTW in the last post from Manny I understand that he will send you a pair of KW het sqtl not that he will screw you up!

You're either seriously lack in reading comprehension skills, or you'd blindly take manny's side no matter what.

Based on what I've seen of Jendee's past posts, she's also not someone I'd have any interest in being involved with. By your logic, since I don't particularly like either of them, shouldn't I be attacking them both? If I'm as lacking in objectivity as you'd like to believe, wouldn't that be my most likely course of action?

No, I'm not in any way involved with Jendee. Are you involved with Manny? I have to suspect that you are. Based on your stance about posting in this forum, I think the more important question is this: Are you directly involved with this transaction? If not, doesn't that make you a hypocrite? Since you seem to have such an aversion to the idea that any uninvolved member of the public can comment as they see fit, how is your own choice to participate any more righteous than my own? It's not.

Well?

This one's a biggie, as you chose to use your very first post on Fauna to come to manny's defense:
If this thread wasn't about manny, would you still be participating?

 

[ilamacoatl]

@José

You are being objective? Really?

You have completely ignored Manny's lies, misleading information and his immaturity. Yet you cast all of the blame at Jendee. Yep. Totally objective.

Out of curiosity have you ever dealt with either of them?

To answer your question I am on one other forum with Jendee but haven't really spoken to her that much as she has been pretty inactive til recently.

@ shadow ace and meokazoo

Sorry I missed the picture of Jendee's t+ but will go back and look.

Please try to understood my language barrier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really trying to be objective, everyone has his point about Manny's mistake but... I'm not saying Jendee it's a bad person or Manny is... I'm only saying that the discussion turns on one direction, to attack only to one guy... We are making a storm in a glass of water...

 

[KORBIN5895]

I'm not sure what your language barrier has to do with the fact that you throw the blame at Jendee's feet while completely ignoring the fact that Manny has proven himself a liar several times now in this thread.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I'm not sure what your language barrier has to do with the fact that you throw the blame at Jendee's feet while completely ignoring the fact that Manny has proven himself a liar several times now in this thread.

It took me a bit to figure it out, but once I saw the location, I realized where I was missing pieces.

José is attempting to say that both parties are at fault and the thread has gone one-sided against Manny and he is struggling to figure out why that is (language barrier is a problem). He is also having a hard time understanding why this has become a public issue, rather than a private one as things where he is from are often handled in a different manner (culture barrier).

I've spoken with him in PMs and he is not insulting anyone deliberately, he is just having a hard time figuring it out.

Dan, he's not avoiding your questions, he's using a translator to and a lot of our phrases or usual manner of speaking do not clearly translate.

Give him a little bit of a break.

 

[AlexBurgos]

Just my opinion on what I consider the most important aspect of this thread for me.

Manny lied several times in the limited responses he posted here. He lied that Jendee was the greedy person who came to him for a T+ and gave a detailed story about wanting to give her a jungle het sharp etc; when Jendee produced the text proving that it was indeed Manny who pulled the T+ out of his hat and offered it to her.

He lied that there was only one male visual T in the litter, either that or he lied that the male he did eventually send was from the same litter when it was not? There is an obvious lie there but I don’t know what it is. Perhaps he miss-sexed the T+ male and later realized it was a male and sent it to her? That would have been such an easy way to twist it and there wouldn’t be this debate about that “lie”.

There were so many ways I personally could have twisted this scenario had I been in Manny’s shoes to make Jendee seem like the liar or the confused party in this deal. Why would someone outright lie about something that could easily be retrieved in a text and email? How could someone be so foolish enough to do what Manny did in this thread is beyond me. He would state a lie and Jendee would post an email/text to prove what he said is a lie, it’s hilarious and saved me a trip to Redbox. I find it hard to be objective here when Jendee, someone I consider naïve based on her past threads, easily debunked Manny Frade.

Jendee just hope you get your snake back and be done with it. I wouldn’t bank on getting any 1.1 from him if I were you.

Manny deals in numbers. The scenario he described here regarding taking your SQT to a harem of females illustrates that. Its not rocket science that if you pair up 100 boas you will most likely get a number of litters every season and be able to knock others about not being able to breed boas as he did to Brandon in this thread. In the same token Manny is betting on the odds. He is betting that there will be new people coming in every season and they will buy his boas. I’d bet over the time this thread has been happening, he probably sold a number of boas to people who didn’t know, don’t care or bother to read this thread. Manny doesn’t care what we say or think here and he has stated that before. For him its business as usual and he will still sell some boas today. I’m not knocking him for that; this is just what I believe to be the truth and why he is probably laughing at this thread because he simply does not care. He will still sell some boas today on Kingnake. He’s probably shipping some out today haha.

 

[jendee]

I never gave him permission to steal my picture for his website infact didn't even notice it until Diem pointed it out. which I find funny, because he said my guy was a poor example of a sq and worth nothing. Also said sqauretails don't sell for much really bc he is selling a possible het squaretail for around 900?? the same I sold my vpi for

genetics don't matter to me, quality examples matter to me

please take my picture down isn't there some law against that??



hes stating that I have deleted and edited our emails and that he is too "gracious" to make it be known public how I was speaking to him. Im asking him now, mr. frade, please post these conversations that I didn't post! The world is looking at you like the bad guy if you have a conversation that may turn the tables a bit why not post them??
you also stated that you sent me 3 pictures in the past week?? again please post these as it will certainly help your side of the story wouldn't it??

 

[KORBIN5895]

Very true Alex but at least four people have said the will not be doing business with him . That mean this thread has saved four people from being scammed by him so that's something.

 

[Lucille]

He will still sell some boas today on Kingnake. He’s probably shipping some out today haha.

'Haha'? Why is that funny?
There are many over on KS that check out the BOI prior to purchase. I believe that no matter how large a seller's operation is, those buying are still buying one person at a time, and very few have money to throw away so they would rather deal with good, ethical sellers.
As of today there have been over 6,000 views of this thread. Word gets around.

 

[AlexBurgos]

'Haha'? Why is that funny?

I was laughing about how screwed up our system is and how for every four people that choose not to buy from Manny on this thread there will be four more people who will. There are many who are happy with dealing with Manny and will continue to deal with him. As I stated previously, this guy probably pairs up projects by the dozens to hundreds per season. Not to mention people come in and out of the boa hobby every season.

If all he had were one or two pairings per season like many of us, I can see how a bad BOI or a bad experience with Jendee would affect his sales and his small business. I am of the opinion that this BOI and the others posted on him won’t stop him from thriving as a business. Would it ruin me with my 18 boa collection? Yes, most certainly. A BOI like this would probably force me out the hobby if I didn’t deal with it from the first text Jendee posted proving I was lying. But it’s a blemish when you are working with numbers like Manny works with. I'm not an advocate for Manny or Jendee; I'm just stating the obvious for those who can't understand why he has stated he would wipe his ass with the BOI. Not many people can state something like that and still thrive in this business.

From reading Jendee’s OP I can see why she felt she needed to post a BOI so I’m not alluding that she wasted her time. I’m just saying Manny will send her back her boa when HE feels like it and that’s screwed up. We have no way to police ourselves if the one deemed guilty by his peers doesn’t respect our opinion and thinks the BOI is a joke. Now if we could ban him from making internet classified ads on KS and elsewhere until he was back in good standing, you can trust Jendee would have had her SQT shipped today, only then would we truly be an effective deterrent against a large scale breeder.

I feel really bad for Jendee but you know what, she must have known about Manny’s past BOI’s. She’s been in the hobby for quite a few years. She’s been very active on the forums and we all “know” each other whether it be from the classifieds or one of the other forums. She should have known better. He lied, she proved that, but she should have known better and has some blame for this as well. Who hasn't seen a Manny BOI whose been in this boa hobby for four years or more?

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I never gave him permission to steal my picture for his website infact didn't even notice it until Diem pointed it out.

please take my picture down isn't there some law against that??

I don't know the specifics, but I do know that it is illegal. This article might help.

http://photography.about.com/od/cop...Do-When-Someone-Steals-Your-Photos-Online.htm

 

[jendee]

I have been in the business for a longtime past four yrs. Im a very forgiving trusting person. Im the type of person that would bring a homeless drug addict home lol I don't judge people by there mistakes/past because everyone has ups and downs. and everyone has a story to tell. but having said that I would never give a homeless person cash, or trust them with my jewelry box lol and thats kinda what I did with manny and I shouldn't have. I only asked one person if I should do the deal, and he told me no hes no good. I never search the boi or did any other research and that's where my inexperience with doing loans has cost me.

 

[Durante]

I was laughing about how screwed up our system is and how for every four people that choose not to buy from Manny on this thread there will be four more people who will.

Your probably correct, but as a business man I would assume he would rather have 8 sales then 4. How many people seen this thread or will & not to do business now with Manny without mentioning it. No one likes losing money no matter the amount & the folks spending large sums usually do there research.

There are many who are happy with dealing with Manny and will continue to deal with him. As I stated previously, this guy probably pairs up projects by the dozens to hundreds per season. Not to mention people come in and out of the boa hobby every season.

A lot of business close down every season too. Do I think Manny's close? Probably not in the near future, but possible sooner if he continue to lose customers.

If all he had were one or two pairings per season like many of us, I can see how a bad BOI or a bad experience with Jendee would affect his sales and his small business. I am of the opinion that this BOI and the others posted on him won’t stop him from thriving as a business.

You could again be right, but I think your under estimating the amount of people who take part in sites like or similar to fauna. These sites are a great part of why Manny's business is as strong as it may be currently.

I have been in the business for a longtime past four yrs. Im a very forgiving trusting person. Im the type of person that would bring a homeless drug addict home lol I don't judge people by there mistakes/past because everyone has ups and downs.

It's okay to be forgiving & trusting but don't set yourself up to get screwed. It's not a mistake if the actions are repeated. I'm sure you learned something from this experience & hopefully will never end up in the same position.

 

[tommyhil4_6]

I didn't want to further my responses, but I must clarify some sense of responsibility for people "purchasing" via online photo.

A) Photos sell, we know this.
B) It is our responsibility as a consumer to ask for the most updated information, as well as photos of said animals (current)
C) BOTH of the high end animals I received from Manny are outstanding representations. One was not listed on PP site (Anery IMG) and the "paraglow pos het anery" is a general image. "I" requested UPDATED, current cell photos of BOTH snakes. I received both in their CURRENT state, not using a d60, d70,80,90 d1000000000... Cameras, when of quality, can make nice things look much better. We all know this.

I will admit that BOTH the Anery IMG AND the Paraglow 66% Anery came and are outstanding. My Anery IMG is often said to be one of the absolute best representations of the animal on the market (especially at just over 2 years old). The animals are DIRECTLY indicative of the photos "I" requested.

Jendee: He has already stated he is sending your snake for a vet quarantine, bill of health etc. to avoid any potential "issues" that may arise from his return (This is wise as "hell hath no wrath like a woman's scorn).

It has been stated "IF" your boy did in fact get the deed done, you will still indeed receive a 1.1 of that breeding. A swell, doesn't mean squat, biology is biology. There is no guarantee.

The saddest part of this whole scenario where blame is SPLIT between BOTH of you.... not only has this become an effort and "smear" campaign on your part against Manny (which is a personal choice, so be it), even Dan G. stated you are a person he wouldn't want to deal with (although he has come to bat with valid concerns throughout this thread). The vindictive nature is not indicative of someone many people would want to do business with... so yes, while you've hurt Manny to a degree and his rep. You damaged yours as well, with some of the attitude, antics, postings and like. Same with the previous breeder loan BOI post.

I understand emotions run high on both sides. I understand you act passionately, but at times it is a detriment to garner "support", especially from the very male ridden hobby. Emotions can be hard. It's admitted (i've been there too, believe me I get it). That was why I said everyone needs to pull those emotions back, take a step back, a walk around the block and come back in a coherent manner to ALLEVIATE the issue.

Both sides could of handled this a million times better and I hope in the end a satisfactory resolution is made. Again take a step back, read these for the words that are written. This is not a "degrading" post towards you OR Manny.

This is a good lesson to be learned by any who read this. The goal at this point should not be vindictive, but to be tolerable to get a resolution. Same goes with Manny. 2 vindictive "wrongs" do NOT make a right. I have a feeling you'll get your snake in perfect health and can pair him up with the female you have for him. That is my hope at least.

-Cheers.

 

[Lucille]

B) It is our responsibility as a consumer to ask for the most updated information, as well as photos of said animals (current)

What?


I'm misunderstanding you I hope. Are you saying that if one sees a current ad and is interested in the critter, it is one's responsibility to ask if the picture really represents the critter being sold?

 

[tommyhil4_6]

What?


I'm misunderstanding you I hope. Are you saying that if one sees a current ad and is interested in the critter, it is one's responsibility to ask if the picture really represents the critter being sold?

I absolutely believe it is the persons responsibility to make the final decision. Going solely from "one photograph" that is seemingly amazing is foolish IMHO.

The paraglow I received, DID look like the picture posted (on the PP main page), but to insure I would be satisfied I asked for additional photos.

I have purchased over 70 animals in 8 months. I ask for updated photos of EVERY SINGLE ONE... be it a Hytec het T or a pos het VPI anery. High end, to low end. I want current snapped photos of that snake, THAT day.

Anyone with a point and shoot camera will never do the quality work that professionally trained/photographers can do.

"IF" people would ask for these photos, potential issues are alleviated.

I did see photos a customer of Manny recently posted, and the female he received was even BETTER in person. I will admit, the one Sarah received was less then equivalent to the site photo provided, definitely.

Instead of gambling on one photo, why not ask for more? Logic escapes me honestly, but then again even as Sarah stated, for a 150 something dollars that's a great deal on that boa, even given the fact it wasn't a direct representation.

 

[tommyhil4_6]

No flash, cell photo.

Random shot, this was with an EOS I believe? Canon? Can't remember what I grabbed. Flash is obvious.

Both of these animals, were exactly as in the pictures I was given (both in person are actually MUCH better).

I am just saying, that a sense of responsibility DOES rest to a point on the consumer. I run 4 businesses.... I am sick of people always blaming the "business", for them taking absolutely no measures to insure they get EXACTLY what they want. Then again, it is America... Always easier to blame then accept any responsibility. I wouldn't expect any "non-business" owner to truly understand from my perspective. That's all good.

My word of advice in buying boas for anyone reading, GET MULTIPLE PHOTOS... Cell phones are typically the best representation... and base your decision from those. To each their own .

 

[jendee]

I didn't want to further my responses, but I must clarify some sense of responsibility for people "purchasing" via online photo.

A) Photos sell, we know this.
B) It is our responsibility as a consumer to ask for the most updated information, as well as photos of said animals (current)
C) BOTH of the high end animals I received from Manny are outstanding representations. One was not listed on PP site (Anery IMG) and the "paraglow pos het anery" is a general image. "I" requested UPDATED, current cell photos of BOTH snakes. I received both in their CURRENT state, not using a d60, d70,80,90 d1000000000... Cameras, when of quality, can make nice things look much better. We all know this.

I will admit that BOTH the Anery IMG AND the Paraglow 66% Anery came and are outstanding. My Anery IMG is often said to be one of the absolute best representations of the animal on the market (especially at just over 2 years old). The animals are DIRECTLY indicative of the photos "I" requested.

Jendee: He has already stated he is sending your snake for a vet quarantine, bill of health etc. to avoid any potential "issues" that may arise from his return (This is wise as "hell hath no wrath like a woman's scorn).

It has been stated "IF" your boy did in fact get the deed done, you will still indeed receive a 1.1 of that breeding. A swell, doesn't mean squat, biology is biology. There is no guarantee.

The saddest part of this whole scenario where blame is SPLIT between BOTH of you.... not only has this become an effort and "smear" campaign on your part against Manny (which is a personal choice, so be it), even Dan G. stated you are a person he wouldn't want to deal with (although he has come to bat with valid concerns throughout this thread). The vindictive nature is not indicative of someone many people would want to do business with... so yes, while you've hurt Manny to a degree and his rep. You damaged yours as well, with some of the attitude, antics, postings and like. Same with the previous breeder loan BOI post.

I understand emotions run high on both sides. I understand you act passionately, but at times it is a detriment to garner "support", especially from the very male ridden hobby. Emotions can be hard. It's admitted (i've been there too, believe me I get it). That was why I said everyone needs to pull those emotions back, take a step back, a walk around the block and come back in a coherent manner to ALLEVIATE the issue.

Both sides could of handled this a million times better and I hope in the end a satisfactory resolution is made. Again take a step back, read these for the words that are written. This is not a "degrading" post towards you OR Manny.

This is a good lesson to be learned by any who read this. The goal at this point should not be vindictive, but to be tolerable to get a resolution. Same goes with Manny. 2 vindictive "wrongs" do NOT make a right. I have a feeling you'll get your snake in perfect health and can pair him up with the female you have for him. That is my hope at least.

-Cheers.

Im not being vindictive, Im sure it does come off that way. Me and him couldn't come to an agreement and had been arguing for weeks. So I came here for help with our disagreement. And to put out there what exactly has went down.
I have stated numerous times in this thread that I know this will hurt me as well as him. Im just a hobbiest, I don't have a business. Im not a boa breeder. I don't have any females for that boa. Ive had 1 litter ever!! I have no intentions at all but to be done with this nightmare of an experince. Im not bothered by people saying they wont do business with me, this is not my income!! People can think what they want. Ive gained a lot of people in this process as well..its whatever! I know that this is frowned upon which is why manny still has people that like him because they don't know all the hidden stories that people wont post due to exactly that.(what Im going through) Im not a person to hide behind a rock because Im worried what people will think of me. I have been lied to for 16 months and I got sick of the lies. Nothing manny has ever said to me or to anybody about this has been true and I have proven that over and over! If you don't see that you have clearly not thoroughly read everything posted. Or you clearly think its ok to be dishonest in life.
I don't doubt I will get my snake in good health, manny is dishonest not dumb! I will be very relieved to get a vet certificate, but he is clearly doing it to perceive as though he is in the right and try to make me look like some evil person that will make up stories to make him look bad. But its very clear in this thread NOTHING was ever made up on my side.
I guarantee I will never receive babies from manny regardless of the out come of him having my male for 16 months now. And if I do breed him next season which I doubt bc the jungle I picked out for him is still too young (I like mine to be around 5 before I breed). I bet money that he will be a stud and get the job done, and that will answer all my suspicions about what exactly has been going on!

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I absolutely believe it is the persons responsibility to make the final decision. Going solely from "one photograph" that is seemingly amazing is foolish IMHO.

The paraglow I received, DID look like the picture posted (on the PP main page), but to insure I would be satisfied I asked for additional photos.

I have purchased over 70 animals in 8 months. I ask for updated photos of EVERY SINGLE ONE... be it a Hytec het T or a pos het VPI anery. High end, to low end. I want current snapped photos of that snake, THAT day.

Anyone with a point and shoot camera will never do the quality work that professionally trained/photographers can do.

"IF" people would ask for these photos, potential issues are alleviated.

I did see photos a customer of Manny recently posted, and the female he received was even BETTER in person. I will admit, the one Sarah received was less then equivalent to the site photo provided, definitely.

Instead of gambling on one photo, why not ask for more? Logic escapes me honestly, but then again even as Sarah stated, for a 150 something dollars that's a great deal on that boa, even given the fact it wasn't a direct representation.

There were three photos of the animal in the ad, I only posted one because the other two showed the same level of color in the animal, so it felt redundant to post the others. The ad is still up, you can see it (with the other pictures) here:

https://perfectpredators.3dcartstores.com/2012-Salmon-Jungle-het-Kahl-Albino-Male_p_205.html

 

[tommyhil4_6]

Im not being vindictive, Im sure it does come off that way. Me and him couldn't come to an agreement and had been arguing for weeks. So I came here for help with our disagreement. And to put out there what exactly has went down.
I have stated numerous times in this thread that I know this will hurt me as well as him. Im just a hobbiest, I don't have a business. Im not a boa breeder. I don't have any females for that boa. Ive had 1 litter ever!! I have no intentions at all but to be done with this nightmare of an experince. Im not bothered by people saying they wont do business with me, this is not my income!! People can think what they want. Ive gained a lot of people in this process as well..its whatever! I know that this is frowned upon which is why manny still has people that like him because they don't know all the hidden stories that people wont post due to exactly that.(what Im going through) Im not a person to hide behind a rock because Im worried what people will think of me. I have been lied to for 16 months and I got sick of the lies. Nothing manny has ever said to me or to anybody about this has been true and I have proven that over and over! If you don't see that you have clearly not thoroughly read everything posted. Or you clearly think its ok to be dishonest in life.
I don't doubt I will get my snake in good health, manny is dishonest not dumb! I will be very relieved to get a vet certificate, but he is clearly doing it to perceive as though he is in the right and try to make me look like some evil person that will make up stories to make him look bad. But its very clear in this thread NOTHING was ever made up on my side.
I guarantee I will never receive babies from manny regardless of the out come of him having my male for 16 months now. And if I do breed him next season which I doubt bc the jungle I picked out for him is still too young (I like mine to be around 5 before I breed). I bet money that he will be a stud and get the job done, and that will answer all my suspicions about what exactly has been going on!

I think the vet idea is more reliant on the idea of the previous loan and the way that BOI went. It's a safety measure for both involved. Which, is good!

One good scenario is you did indeed receive at least some FORM of compensation. That VPI t+, which you turned into 900.00 cash (regardless where that went, obviously to another from Mike W. that was your choice).

Heck, if I could get my "extras" (which I have numerous lol) out on loans for a grand i'd do it. Since the female you have for him isn't ready anyway.

The main issue would be the males production. IF he indeed does produce, you are absolutely deserved that 1.1 Guess we'll see when litters pop if he did.

Please don't be naive as well. My background is Biochemistry and there is NO guarantee in biology. To assure that he will "stud" without actually doing so is counting those chickens before they hatch. I definitely hope he does, he is a great animal for sure.

At this point, all I am saying is find some of that honey (if needed to get YOUR animal back? That's the most important right?).

You've achieved your goal for public exposure. Now the VET QT and when litters pop (if he did succeed) the whole deal can be culminated. If so, ultimately will be a good 6-7k back to you (which was your term of 1.1). Blows my mind anyone wouldn't say 50/50 on the potential female(s) he would be paired with. Although that does show a lack of "greediness" on your part, which is good.

Hopes alls well that ends well.

 

[tommyhil4_6]

There were three photos of the animal in the ad, I only posted one because the other two showed the same level of color in the animal, so it felt redundant to post the others. The ad is still up, you can see it (with the other pictures) here:

https://perfectpredators.3dcartstores.com/2012-Salmon-Jungle-het-Kahl-Albino-Male_p_205.html

There are always multiple photos of animals on PP, but from the several animals i've seen (and received myself, majority of them were as good as the photos). (Honestly, anyone who sees those photos should know they are more "professional" then not).

You know me personally and i'm a big buyer, so maybe it's just a personal trait/tactic of mine to get multiple photos in different lighting and positions etc.

All i'm trying to pass on to other potential buyers reading this is to ask for more photos, regardless of how many are posted of the animals. It's just another way to protect your investment.

If i'm droppping 200/500/1k or 10k on an animal it better be exactly what I want.

Now i'm off to go look for a Squaretail to buy. One of few I don't have at this point lol.