Info Thomas Dorn - aeterrabyte

[aeterrabyte]

your going to get her back as healthy as she was sent. plus she has grown some. so i guess we are fine then. Just be home to accept the package so she don't get hurt.

 

[laterob]

it is going to cost about 60 to send her back. send me a shipping label. she always had the wobble and I most likely did not notice it until after sometime. I have been busy lately. I just got her set up and left her alone. I have 30 days to inspect the animal, and like most of the other snakes I got on fauna I assumed it was good quality. When I noticed she got dehydrated was when I noticed the wobble issues. I previously observed her moving around like spiders do but did not think much of it.

Everything else i purchased on this site I have been very happy with.

You should at least cover the shipping back if you don't pay me 60 for the vet.

1. I'll pay if she's sick, you pay if you're dissatisfied. 2. No. 3. BS. 4. BS. 5. You MOST CERTAINLY did NOT leave her alone!!!! 6. She is of the highest quality, which is why I haven't told you to piss off 80 pages ago. 7. She wasn't dehydrated, or she wouldn't have eaten. 8. Now you are backpedaling.

Answer my three questions, Thomas, and let's end this.

 

[laterob]

So, you got heat packs and boxes, then?

Oh, and please...answer just this:

There are only a few things that could have happened here, Thomas:

1. The snake has severe 'Spider Wobble', but showed little/none of this before December 23 (18 days after you received her and one day after you force-fed her). If she does show severe Spider Wobble, what took it 18 days to manifest? I offered to pay for testing, but you haven't had any done.

2. The snake is fine.

3. The snake was injured while in your care.

Which scenario happened, Thomas, or is there one I am not thinking of?

 

[laterob]

When I sent her, she had no wobble. When you corresponded on the 10th, she had no wobble. When you fet her on the 22nd, she had no wobble. Right?

Yellow was perfect when you got her, with no visible wobble, and you have stated that here.

100% healthy, perfect. No less. Period.

 

[aeterrabyte]

All spiders have some wobble. And even some other morphs have it. This one just took a turn for the worst. I am signing off for the night. Will email you the tracking number when I get it.

 

[laterob]

But PayPal denied your claim, and you haven't received closure on your chargeback.

Never send me an animal without previous approval. I've given you the conditions of my approval.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Rob, I sent you a PM.

 

[laterob]

Thanks, Diem!

 

[ShadowAceD]

Welcome. Hope it helps.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

If you don't arrange a proper time with me she is going back asap.

If you don't receive it and she dies then that is something you will have to live with.

Such a great guy.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Okay I started writing this post when the thread was at page 21 but didn't get to finish. Then I came back to see that it was at page 86. So most of this post was written a few days ago but since I wrote it I thought I should post it. I added more after reading the rest of the thread. So I apologize if my post seems a bit out of place.


Wow, I must say that was a grueling 21 pages to get through! I was going to reply after reading the first few pages, but thought it would be better to read the entire thread first. If I'm going to comment I feel it's my responsibility to read everything presented. Mainly to get all the info presented and to make sure my questions or comments haven't already been addressed. Normally I don't mind reading long threads regardless if I'm going to comment or not. But this one has really been, a phrase that's been used in this thread a few times, "a train wreck!" I thought I was rereading pages because they were were so similar. It's like two pages have been copied and pasted 10 times. As if saying something over and over again is going to change peoples opinions on the matter. Then when that doesn't work resorting to name calling will somehow work in your favor. Anyway sorry for the venting I had to get that out after such an annoying read.

Thomas I know it's a hard pill to swallow that you could be responsible for the snakes current health issues. Just by going off of your own confessed actions and statements, you're a novice keeper at best. This is not an insult although I expect you will take offense to this. You have been keeping snakes for 2 years and only Ball Pythons, no one expects you to be an expert, except you it seems. You haven't been keeping snakes long enough to have even raised a baby to breeding age, again I'm not attacking. You are where you are with your capabilities, knowledge, and experience when it comes to captive husbandry. Around your friends and family that aren't into reptiles I'm sure you seem like a wizard but that changes when you are interacting with others with all manor of levels of experience and knowledge of reptiles. It's very obvious in this thread that your ego is getting the better of you and is will only get in your way of becoming a better keeper, even at the cost of a snakes life. You seem to have an answer for everything but haven't listened to anything most importantly your snake that is knocking on death's door. The best Keepers and Herpetologists don't have an answer for everything and when offered valuable information to turn a blind eye to it for the fear of being wrong. Sorry I'm getting a little preachy here but I really felt you needed to hear this. Whether you listen to what I have to say or least consider it, maybe not now or maybe never but I hope that's not the case as it only will benefit you and your animals.

Now to address the issues with the snake. I'm not going to tell you what exactly is wrong with your snake as that would be impossible from the info I have. I can offer my best guesses with the limited info. In the video I saw the tub sitting on a shelf with two rows of heat tape underneath, correct? You stated the snake didn't have heat for a couple days while you set up everything. You also stated that the tub has a thermostat. I'm guessing this thermostat runs more than just the one tub, if not can you explain your setup in more detail? You said rack but in the video it didn't look like a rack it looked like the tub was sitting on some type of shelf. What I would like to know is where is the probe located for the thermostat? With the tub having two rows of heat tape on either side doesn't leave any room for a temp gradient or any room to escape heat if the thermostat fails.

Going back to listening to what others are suggesting or more importantly listening to your snake and figure out what the issue is. For two weeks in your care the snake was doing great from the time it arrived, it was feeding and you saw no indications of illness. This passed Saturday the snake ate fine and I would assume looked fine going off what you have said. The following day the snake is not doing well, looked dehydrated so you administered fluids by inserting an airline tube in its mouth and far enough to passed it's glottis. How was the water forced through the airline tube as some type of pressure was needed to move the water? I hope you will answer these questions. I have never actually heard of anyone having to tube feed water to a snake that's dehydrated. If a snake is that dehydrated and unable to drink on its own then lactated ringers should be used. As plain water isn't enough to rehydrate a snake with evident health issues that is clearly dehydrated. Also I guess you're not aware that snakes and other reptiles that eat whole prey items like monitor lizards for example are able to satisfy their fluid intake from their prey as long as their living conditions aren't rapidly dehydrating them. In which case changes to your husbandry, setup are essential and tube feeding water isn't going to do any good and as seen here is more likely to cause harm.

(continued from where i left off-)

What a dehydrated snake would need is to replenish its electrolytes. For example diluted pedialyte or as I mentioned earlier lactated ringers. Also I find it extremely hard to believe that the day before the snake looked really dehydrated which caused you to force tube feed it water, that it looked fine and ate a meal no problem. If your setup wasn't the cause of this predicament, please tell me how it went from eating and healthy to looking so bad you decided to tube feed it water? If your conditions weren't the issue than how could it have lost so much fluid in one day. You do know that prey not only is a food source but is also a source of water. Since the snake had eaten the day before there was no need to shove a tube down its throat to add a couple drops of water. Anyway this has been addressed over and over again and it's very infuriating that you are unable to see the error in your ways! I also find it rather puzzling that if the snake was so dehydrated why in the world did your Vet that is so knowledgeable not administer fluids that contained saline and glucose, or lactated ringers solution subcutaneously.

Anyway most everything has been covered over and over again by many different people in this thread and not one person has even been remotely on your side with your reasoning. You really can't be that stubborn or think that your 2 years of keeping Ball Pythons makes you exempt from any mistakes. As i've mentioned earlier this type of attitude where there is no way you could of done something will severely stunt your learning in regards to the care and husbandry of snakes. You have blamed everyone including the snake which really hits a nerve with me, except even the possibility that you may have caused this situation. Well I have got some news for you it's always the keepers fault when something happens. Whether it's poor quarantine or the lack of knowledge for proper husbandry or the ability to notice signs of illness early enough to catch them in time the responsibility always falls on the keeper. No matter how you slice it there is no way around it. That's something you will hopefully learn one and if not I feel awful for your animals because they are the ones that will pay the ultimate price! This idea of defective snakes is ridiculous! Yes some snakes are born dead or have serious deformities and only survive a short while after birth just like any other animal including humans. But you were not sold a snake that falls in this category. You were sold a snake that was eating and healthy. Yes it does have the Spider wobble but that does not get in the way of the snakes ability to thrive. As soon as you decide to put an animal in a box you take full responsibility for its life. It can't create the proper conditions of its cage it can't go out and get its own food and water it relies on you for everything. So as fast as your ready to take credit for being such a great keeper and only ever having one snake get scale rot, you must also take credit for when this don't go well. And yes things will sometimes be out of your control but that still doesn't relieve you for being responsible. I could go on but I don't think any of this will sink in maybe one day you will remember it and your approach to how you keep your animals will change for the better but that's up to you.

Since I started writing this when it was on page 21 and just found the time to come back and finish my post might seem a bit dated since were up to page 86 now, unbelievable! I know I had other stuff I wanted to say but either someone else already covered it or it escapes me at the moment. Which is fine since you are so reluctant to see the obvious in this situation.

One last thing since I just read it, the snake shed and now its completely fine? All I'm going to say about that is read what you have written. Then really take a look at how much you think you know for the sake of the animals in your care!

Rob I'm really sorry you have to deal with this, and I commend you for keeping your composure through this whole ordeal! I wish you luck in ending this saga and moving on. I am glad that the snake is fine and that's the most important part.
Rob I wish you the best! And Thomas I hope that you will actually learn something from all this!

To bad you don't address this post and stand back and look at your actions.

 

[aeterrabyte]

It's already been ended. You will receive a tracking number shortly. I gave you the opportunity to provide me with a time you wish to receive her and you refused. This is something that will be noted with paypal and the credit card company.

I don't care about the 60 bucks to ship her back at this point.

I have been refunded already. It's your snake. I have to send her back within a time limit to make the credit card company happy. What ever you do after that is up to you. It's not my snake at the moment it's yours. If you kill it you kill it what can I do.

 

[ShadowAceD]

It's already been ended. You will receive a tracking number shortly. I gave you the opportunity to provide me with a time you wish to receive her and you refused. This is something that will be noted with paypal and the credit card company.

I don't care about the 60 bucks to ship her back at this point.

I have been refunded already. It's your snake. I have to send her back within a time limit to make the credit card company happy. What ever you do after that is up to you. It's not my snake at the moment it's yours. If you kill it you kill it what can I do.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure sending a snake in less than desirable temperatures to another area with less than desirable temperatures without making sure there is someone their to receive the snake is endangering its life.

You do not care about Yellow. All you care about is getting your money back after you screwed up.

Could you honestly do anything else to make yourself appear to be more useless a human being?

 

[RichsBallPythons]

He is also going to send her to you with a high of 45 during the day tomorrow and a low of 30. Yeah, he really cares about her well-being.

Properly packed with heat pack snake will be fine. My cut off is 20F as i ship hub to hub and always arrive with a box temp 70-80 according to all customers that have checked.

 

[laterob]

Not mine until she's back in my hands, healthy, just like she was to yours. I'd rather wait for word from PayPal about the chargeback before we arrange shipping. Thanks.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Properly packed with heat pack snake will be fine. My cut off is 20F as i ship hub to hub and always arrive with a box temp 70-80 according to all customers that have checked.

You're comparing yourself, a very experienced individual, with someone who did not even know what packing supplies he needed.

 

[aeterrabyte]

When you accept paypal and credit card companies you agree to their terms. If you refused that, and then refuse the snake, and she dies. I hope you can see that your at fault. You signed up for it. I just hope that don't happen to a helpless animal.

But by the way your acting I wouldn't put it past you.

It's just an act that you actually care about these animals.

 

[aeterrabyte]

Not mine until she's back in my hands, healthy, just like she was to yours. I'd rather wait for word from PayPal about the chargeback before we arrange shipping. Thanks.

Paypal told me to send her back and provided me your address.

 

[laterob]

Umm...paypal decided against you, and the chargeback hasn't been resolved.

 

[laterob]

Paypal told me to send her back and provided me your address.

This statement is provably false.