Bad Guy Beware Evan Stahl from Stahl Reptiles!

[cjsreptiles]

Well after reading this I can say that I won't be buying snakes from mr stahl. I may be nobody in your eyes but I do purchase around 2000-3000$ in snakes each year. Holding her refund hostage is just petty. You have the snakes and will get the money for them eventually. Call me crazy but as the customer I expect to be satisfied even if it puts you out a bit. The way I see it had you just refunded her promptly she might have even purchased from you in the future. I would have also seen good customer service on your part and added you to my list of good businesses, but no chance of that now.

 

[CAAK Balls]

After reading this and what was posted in FB she just wanted out. As soon as you file a claim with Paypal that money if frozen and maybe he doesn't have another 800 to cover it. Paypal would require him to have 1600 in his account to cover any credit card or bank claim. Not that hard to understand. Not to mention the way she filed the first one with out letting him know there would be no way in the world I would refund her money until I sold the snakes and could cover it on my end. I could see her filing a claim with her credit card or bank. Then he would be totally shafted until he went though the process and got his refund back from paypal. I commend him for waiting to ship the animals. I live in IL and this winter has been crazy. No way would I risk the animals. As much as I hate people getting ripped off I also hate people who don't tell the complete story and just bash people. I would look at it this way.. My new snakes are being fed and taken care of until they can be shipped. Its all part of being in this business / hobby.

This is what was posted in FB...

Buyers Watch out for Evan Stahl from Stahl reptiles!!! I started my purchase February 11 2013 paid in full the following week when the next day was clear to ship, after he demanded he be payed or he would refund my money and resell the animals. Even though I was not comfortable doing this with our a confirmed ship date I sent the payment so I wouldn't miss out on a good deal. The communication was great, of course until all his money was received, after It was pulling teeth to even get a response on a email! Mid march I requested I be refunded for my purchase for 800 and was told I would not receive a refund I would get my animals when I got them. I waited another week with failed communication and filed a dispute with PayPal for my money back. They did not grant my refund and his response when I asked if I was getting my animals or money was no way was I getting my animals which were paid for and I would get a refund when I got it. It's been OVER two months now and out 800 no animals not money back NOTHING. This is the kind of business he is running STEALING money and not providing animals!

 

[Spartan452]

The buyer is in the right in this situation, even though she over reacted and filed a dispute with paypal without consulting the buyer. She eventually lost the dispute and the funds were returned to the seller.

In this situation the seller should have done either 2 things, ship the snakes or refund the buyer. However this was not the case and he held on to the money for far too long (7 weeks is approximately 2 months) and he still has the money, while he sold the snakes.

There are faults on both ends, but ultimately the seller is in the wrong. He still has the money and has not refunded the buyer after he sold the snakes to another person. This is totally unethical in my eyes and he deserves the bad PR due to it.

I personally would not sell to Sierra or buy from Stahl.

 

[carrienkashe]

Good shipping day?

Granted the buyer should have had a refund by now minus the deposit, the buyer keeps insisting there were clear days to ship. Here is Feb, Mar, and even Aprils weather for Detroit, Michigan. Ship Your Reptiles & Reptiles Express both advise not to ship when the low temps are below 38-40 degrees. From Feb 11th until mid March when you filed the Paypal dispute which days exactly were clear to ship?

 

[Magic]

I would look at it this way.. My new snakes are being fed and taken care of until they can be shipped. Its all part of being in this business / hobby.

This!


I do feel bad that Sierra paid $800 and didn't get instant gratification. Evan hasn't held those snakes hostage though. The weather needed to be better.

What muddied the h2o was Sierra then deciding to file PayPal claims without communicating to Evan that she was upset and going to ask paypal for $ back for not getting them fast enough.

Evans TOS may not be for everyone, but they are HIS TERMS, and she agreed to them when she sent her deposit. When she first filed for a PayPal return, Evan could have told her to kick rocks, but he didn't. He did tell her she would have to wait because she initiated the process.

Bottom line, (I feel) is that Evan told her he would give her a refund, even if technically she wasn't entitled to one. To me, that doesn't scream bad seller.

In Sierra's defense, wanting to immediately get what you paid for isn't a bad thing. Unreasonable? Perhaps. Next time around wait for spring. In this hobby, we all play the winter waiting game.

 

[Wilomn]

Doesn't even's TOS state that he won't ship if the weather is below 32? If so, then aren't there a few days that he could have shipped?

 

[carrienkashe]

Doesn't even's TOS state that he won't ship if the weather is below 32? If so, then aren't there a few days that he could have shipped?

No, not unless it's been changed.

 

[scaledverts]

No, not unless it's been changed.

There was a lull in the weather to some parts of the country and I shipped out a bunch of stuff that worked within the guidelines I have to follow to be allowed to ship. I was absolutely devasted when one of ball pythons that I made and really really liked died in transit during this period. That is why I went right back to insisting on night time temps here and there being above freezing, which had not happened again until just recently. If she had not pulled my monies through paypal I would have shipped her snakes to her a couple weeks ago.

He pretty clearly states here that 32 is the minimum temperature he would ship at. With his own statements Wes is correct that there were a couple of days (at least on his end) where he could have shipped them.

His terms actually don't state a temperature range that I could see. So based on his own written terms (which she agreed to at the time of deposit), she is due a complete refund because he should have shipped the snakes multiple times by now which breaks the "unless I fail to produce or supply the animal as agreed upon" part of the terms. In fact his terms actually condemn his holding the total sum ransom. He should have at least refunded all but the deposit at this point. I agree, that continuing to hold the money is just petty. The fact that he spent the money already has ZERO bearing on the fact that the buyer is owed AT LEAST a refund of the total minus the deposit.

 

[ShadowAceD]

He pretty clearly states here that 32 is the minimum temperature he would ship at. With his own statements Wes is correct that there were a couple of days (at least on his end) where he could have shipped them.

Just to be fair, those temperatures shown are the recorded temperatures, not the projected, which can vary in range and which are not posted until the end of that day. The weather may be predicted to be 30 degrees, but may end up being 37 and vice versa.

 

[Ron Allen]

The only problem I have is the money was spent prior to the snakes being shipped. Anything could have happened. Catastrophic things happen all the time. If he wanted to adhere to his TOS, he should have simply said no to the refund, and shipped the snakes on the first day possible. He chose to re-list them, and as soon as he did he accepted ownership of the animals, and owed the refund.

 

[hhmoore]

Evan stated earlier that, due to a loss in cold weather shipping, a decision was made not to risk the animals. Even if it isn't posted in his terms, I can respect that.
As far the "no refund policy" and reposting the animals for sale - both were at least reasonably common practices no too awfully long ago. The problem with No Refunds is that, if the seller isn't going to ship the animal, he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. The bit about reselling prior to refunding was based on the idea that the animal could/would have sold & been shipped if this (generic, not THIS) buyer hadn't claimed it. Sometimes it is realistic, sometimes not...but it sort of has a punitive feel to it, IMO. That fact aside, delays in refunds are not unheard of in the business world; particularly when it comes to online transactions. Just in companies I've interacted with in the past several months, I've noted time frames ranging from 7 - 60 days after cancellation of the order/return of the product.

(There is another subject that I have been tempted to address, but - even after having started it twice - I find that I don't want to take that path...unless it gets brought up by others, lol)

 

[jmp745]

Sometimes these threads really just have me wondering what people are thinking.
First, any talk of the weather is a waste of time in my eyes. Its irrelevant. Old news. The one and only thing that matters right now is that he has the money, and the buyer has nothing. Thats it. Simple. If he doesn't have the money to give back, then that is the biggest mistake made here. Is the seller saying he wouldn't have been able to pay his bills that month without the 800? Or he decided to go blow it on something else entirely? Either way, this is not the buyers problem. Keeping even the deposit would be disgusting in my eyes at this point. The day the $800 came back after the seller won the paypal dispute, it should have been sent back willfully. You cant say the sale was done, so they are getting the snakes, but I posted the snakes for sale again, in the same breath. At a minimum, once the decision to repost the snakes for sale was made, the money should have went back.
I dont even buy snakes, but if I did, I'd be avoiding this seller like the plague. The completely rude attitude of being in charge is pretty hilarious, but not something I would put up with from anybody for any reason.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

This!


I do feel bad that Sierra paid $800 and didn't get instant gratification. Evan hasn't held those snakes hostage though. The weather needed to be better.

What muddied the h2o was Sierra then deciding to file PayPal claims without communicating to Evan that she was upset and going to ask paypal for $ back for not getting them fast enough.

Evans TOS may not be for everyone, but they are HIS TERMS, and she agreed to them when she sent her deposit. When she first filed for a PayPal return, Evan could have told her to kick rocks, but he didn't. He did tell her she would have to wait because she initiated the process.

Bottom line, (I feel) is that Evan told her he would give her a refund, even if technically she wasn't entitled to one. To me, that doesn't scream bad seller.

In Sierra's defense, wanting to immediately get what you paid for isn't a bad thing. Unreasonable? Perhaps. Next time around wait for spring. In this hobby, we all play the winter waiting game.

The problem here isn't that she didn't get instant gratification.

It's that he put her snakes back up for sale and still didn't refund her money.

It's also that he spent her money and CAN'T pay her back until he sells those snakes.

 

[Teatime]

It would be interesting if this case did get taken to court, and I certainly hope that Sierra does go that route if she doesn't get her money. I don't think "no refund" policies are applicable if the item never even left the seller's possession. That would be very ridiculous. The decision for when to ship is all in the seller's control, at his discretion. Therefore, the buyer really isn't guilty of anything here except being impatient... "Buyer's remorse" doesn't really apply unless you actually SEND her the snakes that she paid for. You don't get to just keep her money. That is stealing.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I'm confused as to where people are getting the idea Evan is refunding her nothing. He said, in his mind, she does not deserve a refund, but she is getting it anyway. I'm pretty sure he is giving back the non-refundable deposit as well. It's just no instant, he said he is waiting for payments to clear on the BPs he has resold.

He should never have spent the money prior to shipping, no, but it does not change a bad buyer being a bad buyer either. There are faults on both end.

 

[evansnakes]

I really find it amazing that not one person has anything to say about this awesome buyer trying to steal from me!!! How awesome that she emailed me and pressured me to ship after she had filed for a refund through paypal without telling me??? Nobody thinks that that is bullshit?? No she is awesome right? Then on top of that people are still talking 3 pages later about me not refunding her, not refunding her fees, not refunding her deposit, etc., etc., WHEN I HAVE CLEARLY SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT AS SOON AS MY PENDING PAYMENT WITH PAYPAL POSTS TO MY ACCOUNT I AM REFUNDING 100% OF THE MONIES THAT SHE SENT ME!!! IS that clear enough now???

She demanded both a refund and the animals shipped while paypal was holding the money. I just got the money back to me recently and it was partially taken by automated bill payments.; That is the issue. There is absolutely no way that I could know if and or when paypal would rule in her favor or mine and absolutley no way that I could know when they would put the money back in my account! That is the problem. You guys keep beating a dead horse saying that I spent her money? You dont understand paypal then, do you? When she paid $800 to me via paypal, only $776 went to my account due to fees paypal charges! So that means that I never had $800 and I was always short of the full amount in my account. Understand? Paypal states that investigations on claims can take 30-90 days so there was absolutely no reason for me to think the money would be put back in my account less than two weeks after she filed disputes. All of the problems with this transaction have been because the buyer lies and tells two different stories. Also, if you read the emails, she told me to resell the animals and refund her money. It was not my idea or game plan. I am tired of being disrespected by people who know nothing about me other than what one of the absolute shittiest customers I have ever had to deal with says on here. You may like me or not like me but I sell quality animals and I do not rip people off. So how about you stop wasting time flogging a dead horse and in a couple business days when she gets refunded I will post it here as I know she will not.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Evan, I did not want to quote your post at risk of not catching all the vulgarity to censor out, but you will be infracted for the vulgarity, which could lead to a ban.

I know the situation is frustrating for you, but losing your cool and throwing vulgarity around is about the worse thing you can do.

Some people are not reading that you are refunding her, I am not sure why. Just relax, get her the money when it comes in and be done with it.

 

[Wilomn]

I know the situation is frustrating for you, but losing your cool and throwing vulgarity around is about the worse thing you can do.
.

This has ever been his weakness. Combined with what seems to be just a plain old pigheaded meanness, sometimes not always, and you get even.

 

[evansnakes]

I am sorry if it is an issue I did not think that bs was a "vulgarity" and I did not name call which I thought was the issue with swearing. Rich has always said that this was a board meant for adult usage. If I did still break the rules I am sorry, It was not my intention. I am very tired though of having to post something 10 times and still have people post that I am saying or doing something to the contrary. It is ridiculous.

 

[evansnakes]

This has ever been his weakness. Combined with what seems to be just a plain old pigheaded meanness, sometimes not always, and you get even.

And why when you are not involved in any transactions with me do you come to every post about me good or bad and take shots at me for over a decade now? I would certainly turn the spotlight right back on you and say that you have a massive ego, you are petty and are one of the meanest and consistently insulting people who trolls this board.