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Bad Guy problems with TOM CRUTCHFIELD

it is not personal at all. and I apologize, you obviously know more about the legal system than I do. I hope arslan is following this thread and makes a few phone calls and everything gets resolved quickly and he gets compensated quickly. I had no idea the judicial system was so quick and easy. I assumed tom would not show a payroll for the system to garnish, I assumed thieves had ways around that, my bad again. I appreciate your insight and knowledge on this issue.
 
whimpyguns said:
it is not personal at all. and I apologize, you obviously know more about the legal system than I do. I hope arslan is following this thread and makes a few phone calls and everything gets resolved quickly and he gets compensated quickly. I had no idea the judicial system was so quick and easy. I assumed tom would not show a payroll for the system to garnish, I assumed thieves had ways around that, my bad again. I appreciate your insight and knowledge on this issue.
Click to expand...


No worries at all man. It can be easy, but than again it can be costly and hard too. It's all about having your ducks in a row and not leaving anything up in the air. The more you have on the case that holds up your end of the things the better....

Good luck to you Arslan, hopefully you can do something...
 
Arslan said:
There’s a man, his name is Tom Crutchfield. Great herpetologist! Which is true because he’s achieved a lot. ...Tom disappeared. I had no idea that I shouldn’t have made prepayment, it was my mistake, I had been warned about his criminal past and about him bancoing other people. I should have listened to them all.
Click to expand...

Casey already brought up this point previously, and I second it.

If any of us have been warned about an individual and still go forward on a deal, then enjoy the outcome. :ack2: There are plenty of good outstanding people in the herp world you can do business with instead.
 
I have to say I'm not impressed by Arslan either. She willingly agreed to lie to US Customs thus also cheating the Russian customs as well. Then she wants us to think Tom's the only thief? As far as coming to the US from Russia, not only is the trip extremely expensive, but both countries don't just give Visas out like candy. Not practical. I hate to say it, but just like the German guy with Glades Herp, Arslan is probably screwed out of a ton of money.
 
While y'all want to debate the legal ramifications and options, I want to see a copy of the original contract that both the OP and Tom signed & agreed to.

Please know I am NOT defending Tom or Patty in any way, shape or form and I do believe Arslan has been robbed.

That said, someone (sorry that I can't remember who, to give you proper credit) previously pointed out that the animals were undervalued for the purposes of customs and Arslan himself stated,
"We didn’t put real prices on the list because if there was some sort of unplanned delay Tom would have to pay a big fine, so I just didn’t want to bother my supplier.

That tells me that both parties conspired to beat international export/import laws. Not cool.

Arslan was warned not to do business with Tom and yes, should have heeded those warnings. Arslan has also travelled here to the USA more than once; he is quite obviously not stupid or naive, so yes, he must realize $14K is a good sum of money for even we bloated americans, otherwise he would not have sought to undervalue the animals, in my worthless opinion.

You have presented a very good case against Tom, Arslan, but frankly it would appear you wanted to skirt laws and regulations just much as Tom did.

He's done it in the past; you knew it. Everyone without blinders knew it.

I do sincerely hope you can recoup your money because he and Patty have, indeed, stolen from you.
 
LauraB said:
While y'all want to debate the legal ramifications and options, I want to see a copy of the original contract that both the OP and Tom signed & agreed to.

Please know I am NOT defending Tom or Patty in any way, shape or form and I do believe Arslan has been robbed.

That said, someone (sorry that I can't remember who, to give you proper credit) previously pointed out that the animals were undervalued for the purposes of customs and Arslan himself stated,
"We didn’t put real prices on the list because if there was some sort of unplanned delay Tom would have to pay a big fine, so I just didn’t want to bother my supplier.

That tells me that both parties conspired to beat international export/import laws. Not cool.

Arslan was warned not to do business with Tom and yes, should have heeded those warnings. Arslan has also travelled here to the USA more than once; he is quite obviously not stupid or naive, so yes, he must realize $14K is a good sum of money for even we bloated americans, otherwise he would not have sought to undervalue the animals, in my worthless opinion.

You have presented a very good case against Tom, Arslan, but frankly it would appear you wanted to skirt laws and regulations just much as Tom did.

He's done it in the past; you knew it. Everyone without blinders knew it.

I do sincerely hope you can recoup your money because he and Patty have, indeed, stolen from you.
Click to expand...

Here'here!
 
That said, someone (sorry that I can't remember who, to give you proper credit) previously pointed out that the animals were undervalued for the purposes of customs and Arslan himself stated,
"We didn’t put real prices on the list because if there was some sort of unplanned delay Tom would have to pay a big fine, so I just didn’t want to bother my supplier
Click to expand...
Let's be clear about this. You would have to pay duties/taxes on these animals based on their value, so in my opinion that is why they were undervalued. I have no idea what they are, but I know when I ship anything to Canada, they have to pay some pretty hefty taxes.
Like Harold said' Lay down with dogs, rise with fleas"
 
Casey Hulse said:
Let's be clear about this. You would have to pay duties/taxes on these animals based on their value, so in my opinion that is why they were undervalued. I have no idea what they are, but I know when I ship anything to Canada, they have to pay some pretty hefty taxes.
Like Harold said' Lay down with dogs, rise with fleas"
Click to expand...

Exactly Casey. If I read it right they valued the animals at $30. The are pretty rare Epicrates, some worth in the neighborhood of $1500/each.
 
I agree with you laura. The sad part is we will not see that contract. because it is to damaging to the op case. He may deserve a refund but he was willing to bend and possibly break custom tax laws to get these animals to Russia. I would like to know if he tried to buy from other whole salers first before turning to a known smuggler for this deal? Honestly this whole things stinks of illegal on both sides
 
This is why I always say to keep it legit. The more legal paper you have the more solid the ground there is to stand on.
So many times I have seen Tom post some incredible snakes and have been tempted but I ran away knowing his past. This type of outcome just strengthens everyone's reasons for avoiding him.

I still hope Arslan gets the money back; I hate seeing fellow reptile people being cheated.
I also hope Arslan can get some good legal advice before pursuing legal action; the fines for undervaluing the animals may me stiffer than the money already lost.
 
Valuation is a Relative term.

Come now........Have you not had a car gifted to you to save??? Go back in time and you will find.....Your point is waste of time.....Sherlock you are not!
 
Keith Northrop said:
Come now........Have you not had a car gifted to you to save??? Go back in time and you will find.....Your point is waste of time.....Sherlock you are not!
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Actually you're analogy is a waste of time. Getting a car from Grandma is a far cry from lying on CITES documents and customs for 2 countries.
 
Explain the difference between the car and the CITES paperwork, please. From my vantage point, it's only a moral one, which makes it invalid.
 
The car from grandma is worth whatever grandma says. Government paperwork asks for the value if you pay $1500 and claim $30 you are commiting a crime.
 
And if he was implying paying grandma $5000 then turning around and saying it was a gift, yes that's wrong too. If you use the logic of if you've ever done anything wrong you can't condemn others then why don't we just empty the jails and prisons. I do believe some things are more wrong than others.
 
You're wrong, a car has a determined value just like a snake does. Hell, I would say that many more people could agree on a relative value of a car than for a snake. Both things are tax fraud, one is just morally acceptable to you. I just don't get everyone jumping on Arslan for this. They are guilty of doing something that is done extremely often by people of all walks of life and it is being equated with Tom directly stealing 14k from them.
 
I am rather new to reptiles but have always kept an ear open for stories involving animals of all kkind...and the people involved in these stories.I have heard the smuggling and deceit for quite some time.I must agree with Robert and a few other folks...My question is (and it isn't rhetorical) why do business with someone like this at all? Nickolaus stated why and I know from reading fauna,he is a well respected person and very knowledgeable and this smuggler tried to'get over' on him.I can only imagine all of the stunts he has pulled. I read the thread about High Ends Herps and Tom and Patty may not be laying in a shed with a hole for a toilet(as Damon and Taiwni did) but they certainly don't seem much better character.
 
JCCS said:
You're wrong, a car has a determined value just like a snake does. Hell, I would say that many more people could agree on a relative value of a car than for a snake. Both things are tax fraud, one is just morally acceptable to you. I just don't get everyone jumping on Arslan for this. They are guilty of doing something that is done extremely often by people of all walks of life and it is being equated with Tom directly stealing 14k from them.
Click to expand...

Actually a cars value varies quite a bit with condition there is mo set market value. And a person can ask whatever they want for a car. A 2008 Chevy whatever could be worth $500 or $5000 depending on condition. I can go to Tom's site and several others not to mention the classifieds and these particular snakes are going to have similar prices.

And you're saying wrong is wrong with the car compared to the customs and turning around and saying lying on customs is no big deal, but the theft is. Seems contradictory. Either wrong is wrong or it isn't. The OP certainly doesn't deserve to loose their money, but his morals are lacking too.
 
Well, since neither party has actually followed through and shipped anything through customs, they haven't committed a crime IMO. So now it's time for Tom to refund the money. If anything, maybe the OP should threaten Tom with making a call to customs. Now THEY may care about it, and I don't think Tom wants to risk seeing a jail cell again, so maybe that will light the proverbial fire under his arse to make it right.:shrug01:
 
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