Bad Guy Buyer Beware Keith Cantore AKA Albinocollector

[albinocollector]

Hey guys sorry to cut out I think we all had the insight we needed Thanks nick for your opinions as it was exactly what I wanted to hear a Open to both sides fair opinion . I have to get out of here now

 

[John B]

Thanks everyone. I am now happy. I e-mailed Keith 4 pages and he only showed page 1 of 1, the bill. He would not post the other pages, with the vets notes on the condition of the turtle. He and I know why. Thank-you everyone for your input, I am done with this thread. Bye

 

[allesuberschildkroten]

Thanks everyone. I am now happy. I e-mailed Keith 4 pages and he only showed page 1 of 1, the bill. He would not post the other pages, with the vets notes on the condition of the turtle. He and I know why. Thank-you everyone for your input, I am done with this thread. Bye

But John if there was an issue with the turtle shell, did you not take pics of it? Do you have a pic of the dead turtle? Please share, if he didn't post everything it would be very relevant to see those pics of the turtles shell....

 

[Lucille]

I e-mailed Keith 4 pages and he only showed page 1 of 1, the bill. He would not post the other pages, with the vets notes on the condition of the turtle. He and I know why.

Oh no, not more games. If there are 4 pages, email the whole thing to me and I will post it all. If you are not willing to do that, stop referring to information which may or may not exist.

 

[Lucille]

No surprise, John saw my post and has not emailed me.
I think he may have left the thread because of the implications of the date of the vet visit.

Either:

The turtle was healthy when he received it and only later became ill, which would exonerate Keith (who in my opinion is not on the hook for this sale anyway after receiving no notification for over two months)

or

The turtle was sick when received; with a 'mooshy' shell in which case a delay of a month before seeking professional treatment amounts to neglect.

 

[Celtic Constrictors]

I think this all goes to show the accuser can be just as wrong as a seller. In this case, the OP is the true "Bad Guy" for the reasons Lucille posted above (so far).

On the other hand I think even when the "Bad Guy" is exonerated as I think Keith has been, a lot can be learned of their character when in a situation like this...

 

[albinocollector]

Thanks everyone. I am now happy. I e-mailed Keith 4 pages and he only showed page 1 of 1, the bill. He would not post the other pages, with the vets notes on the condition of the turtle. He and I know why. Thank-you everyone for your input, I am done with this thread. Bye

You didnt send me 4 pages thats why it only shows 1 of 1 wow are you seriously joking ?? Why would I hide what the Vet says I can acre less what he said its now diffrent from teh meds Me and other turtle guys know what the meds are for as Nickalous also says along with me and justin its Highly unlikely that turtle can live with RI and MBD 1 month old to live another 1 month and a week sick if I sent it to you sick so Im clear buddy nice try its Obvious I didnt send you a sick turtle the only 1 SICK here is YOU !!

 

[albinocollector]

Oh no, not more games. If there are 4 pages, email the whole thing to me and I will post it all. If you are not willing to do that, stop referring to information which may or may not exist.

Lucille Im gonna try to forward you his email with vet bill Im not the greatest with the computer though might need you to send me your email adress so I can retype it in or something

 

[albinocollector]

No surprise, John saw my post and has not emailed me.
I think he may have left the thread because of the implications of the date of the vet visit.

Either:

The turtle was healthy when he received it and only later became ill, which would exonerate Keith (who in my opinion is not on the hook for this sale anyway after receiving no notification for over two months)

or

The turtle was sick when received; with a 'mooshy' shell in which case a delay of a month before seeking professional treatment amounts to neglect.

Lucille I nee your email adress to type it in when forwarding you the Vet bill from John the "4 " pages he claims that when I opened only showed 1 and thats why I think it would only say 1 of 1 am I right ??? IM not positive but I believe if you send 4 pages teh first page would read 1 of 4 correct ??? it doesnt you can see that in pics I posted it says 1 of 1 pages

 

[Lucille]

Sent my email via pm 15 minutes ago and it has been available in my 'contact' info on this site for years.

 

[Lucille]

I just received an attachment which is what Keith says John sent him. It is only one page and is the bill already posted on the thread.

John by his own admission is not proficient posting pictures and that is OK. Wherever the breakdown between one page of the alleged four occurred, it is still on John when he saw that only one page had been posted to make another try and send the info to someone else. IF he had more than one page. He has been playing games from the get go as far as getting solid information posted.

 

[albinocollector]

I just received an attachment which is what Keith says John sent him. It is only one page and is the bill already posted on the thread.

John by his own admission is not proficient posting pictures and that is OK. Wherever the breakdown between one page of the alleged four occurred, it is still on John when he saw that only one page had been posted to make another try and send the info to someone else. IF he had more than one page. He has been playing games from the get go as far as getting solid information posted.

its says on teh page that it is 1of 1 pages thats not on there from computer thats from teh vets actuall copy they handed him !! so there isnt morethen 1 page Johns takin us all fro ride number ? I lost count

 

[Lucille]

its says on teh page that it is 1of 1 pages thats not on there from computer thats from teh vets actuall copy they handed him !! so there isnt morethen 1 page Johns takin us all fro ride number ? I lost count

Yes, what you sent me is page 1 of 1

Thanks everyone. I am now happy. I e-mailed Keith 4 pages and he only showed page 1 of 1, the bill. He would not post the other pages, with the vets notes on the condition of the turtle. He and I know why. Thank-you everyone for your input, I am done with this thread. Bye

The bill is only one page, 1 of 1, even John agrees on this. That does not mean there could not be additional pages. What I am saying is if there are, it was up to John to try again to have them posted and he did not do that.

 

[albinocollector]

Yes, what you sent me is page 1 of 1



The bill is only one page, 1 of 1, even John agrees on this. That does not mean there could not be additional pages. What I am saying is if there are, it was up to John to try again to have them posted and he did not do that.

when I get my Vet papers bill and exams it says each number of pages and isnt seperate from what I recall but maybe this is the case still John is a LIAR and that is what was proven of thsi hole thread

 

[Wraith]

I have 2 alligator snapping turtles that were born in Sept of this year. I just had to take one to the vet and get it some antibiotic shots. I have to use insulin needles to inject the shot. And I have to give it in its leg on the backside. I have also had to take my big snapper to the vet and get shots for it too. They were given in the same spot. My ally snappers are only 17 grams in weight and they had to get the dose down really small so that it would not hurt/kill it. I also got Vit A for mine, but it was to be given by mouth not shot and it was given in the smallest dose as to not hurt/kill the turtle. I have been giving it shots for a week now with no problems and its still eating and active

Yes insulin needles are the smallest. But there are two things to keep in mind. Allisnaps are somewhat bigger and heavier bodied than common snaps - a tiny bit more room for error. Also keep in mind different drugs/medications are injected into different parts of the body depending on what is being injected and for what purpose. Putting an injection in spot that would guarantee that the medication doesn't go where it needs to go within the body is worthless. And as you said.. your vet didn't inject Vit A into the turtle. It was orally given. I would be rather confident if injection had been used, the turtle likely would have died regardless if the needle went into the leg or shoulder or elsewhere. There is NO room for error on Vit A dosages especially with a baby turtle. Antibiotics on the other hand have greater room for error if the dosage is off just slightly.

 

[Wraith]

As I stated above, I got antibiotics for my 2 ally snappers, and it WAS NOT 20 ml injection... It as like 7 ml as was the Vit A by mouth that I got.... 20 ml seems way to much based on how much they had to dilute the meds for me and what the vet was telling me.... Did the vet actually specialize in animals besides dogs/cats?

Where does it say that the turtle was given 20ml injection of vitamin A??? The receipt shows that it was apparently given 0.01 cc of Vit A.

The only thing listing 20ml is the antibiotic and that is not the actual dosage given. That is the concentration of the medication/solution. The medication/solution has to then be drawn off from the bottle in the proper amount. The actual amount drawn into the syringe is calculated based on the weight of the turtle, what the formulary charts recommend should be given for specific treatment, and the concentration of solution being used.

In regards to your allisnaps - 7ml is a LOT of fluid. A 1.0cc TB syringe filled all the way up is the same a 1.0ml. 7ml = (7) 1.0 cc syringes. I seriously doubt your vet gave a 17g allisnap 7ml of anything

If we look at the receipt you will see that it appears that the dosage of antibiotics given was 0.05 cc (same as 0.05 ml). If you look at 1 cc syringe... it is marked off in (10) 0.1 cc sections (& each of those sections are usually broken down into 10 units). So 0.05 would be half of one 0.1 section on the syringe. I don't know what formulary dosage choice was being used by the vet 5mg/kg - 10mg/kg tends to be the average. For a 10g turtle a 0.05 cc dose seems pretty high... doing the math it (even at the 10mg/kg rate) should have been more like a 0.01 injection.

I'm more worried about the Vit A shot - there is no concentration for the solution provided to even know whether the dosage actually given might have been overboard or close to safe.

To me, it kinda looks like the vet didn't really know what was actually wrong with the turtle and was just throwing things at it. The only true way to know for certain you have a vit A problem is a liver biopsy or blood work... neither of which are possible on a baby turtle... most of what I read on chelonian medicine suggest that a turtle has to be at least 70+ grams to even think about a liver biopsy and probably would end up with the animal dead. A 10 gram animal is too small to draw significant blood to have tests run on it... so the vet was left with random guessing as to what to do.

 

[allesuberschildkroten]

Where does it say that the turtle was given 20ml injection of vitamin A??? The receipt shows that it was apparently given 0.01 cc of Vit A.

The only thing listing 20ml is the antibiotic and that is not the actual dosage given. That is the concentration of the medication/solution. The medication/solution has to then be drawn off from the bottle in the proper amount. The actual amount drawn into the syringe is calculated based on the weight of the turtle, what the formulary charts recommend should be given for specific treatment, and the concentration of solution being used.

In regards to your allisnaps - 7ml is a LOT of fluid. A 1.0cc TB syringe filled all the way up is the same a 1.0ml. 7ml = (7) 1.0 cc syringes. I seriously doubt your vet gave a 17g allisnap 7ml of anything

If we look at the receipt you will see that it appears that the dosage of antibiotics given was 0.05 cc (same as 0.05 ml). If you look at 1 cc syringe... it is marked off in (10) 0.1 cc sections (& each of those sections are usually broken down into 10 units). So 0.05 would be half of one 0.1 section on the syringe. I don't know what formulary dosage choice was being used by the vet 5mg/kg - 10mg/kg tends to be the average. For a 10g turtle a 0.05 cc dose seems pretty high... doing the math it (even at the 10mg/kg rate) should have been more like a 0.01 injection.

I'm more worried about the Vit A shot - there is no concentration for the solution provided to even know whether the dosage actually given might have been overboard or close to safe.

To me, it kinda looks like the vet didn't really know what was actually wrong with the turtle and was just throwing things at it. The only true way to know for certain you have a vit A problem is a liver biopsy or blood work... neither of which are possible on a baby turtle... most of what I read on chelonian medicine suggest that a turtle has to be at least 70+ grams to even think about a liver biopsy and probably would end up with the animal dead. A 10 gram animal is too small to draw significant blood to have tests run on it... so the vet was left with random guessing as to what to do.

Did I say it was given 20 ml of Vit A??? If so quote me where I did?? Wait... I didnt, I was referring to the antibiotic... And I'm sorry I wasn't right at my fridge looking at the dosage I use for my antibiotics and Vit A (that was sarcasm incase you didnt get it). The dosage for my 17 gram Ally snapper is .07 ml for both the antibiotic and Vit A... I was merely using my experience with my baby to show what dosage my vet prescribed...

 

[LauraB]

Perhaps this discussion relative to the husbandry, care and medical issues might be better served elsewhere in order to stay on topic as relates to this particular transaction.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=605

IMWO, neither party has proven anything concrete relative to this particular transaction. Both parties are questionable and both parties have histories they prefer not be discussed.

Bottom line ... right or wrong, honest or dishonest, genetic or neglect ... nothing has been proven to be truth or indisputable by either party.

 

[allesuberschildkroten]

Perhaps this discussion relative to the husbandry, care and medical issues might be better served elsewhere in order to stay on topic as relates to this particular transaction.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=605

IMWO, neither party has proven anything concrete relative to this particular transaction. Both parties are questionable and both parties have histories they prefer not be discussed.

Bottom line ... right or wrong, honest or dishonest, genetic or neglect ... nothing has been proven to be truth or indisputable by either party.

I think we are on topic, because dosage could have killed the turtle which is relevant seeing as the turtle is "dead" now. And I dont think pulling up someone's jail history is on topic but yet it was done...

 

[allesuberschildkroten]

Maybe we can move the jail history convo to that section on Fauna