Inquiry Snakes at Sunset

[Lucille]

Mike dropped the ball, admitted it, and made up for it with a full refund, and your daughter is happy with that.

I am waiting for my daughter to send me the conversations between Mike and Cheyenne. I do agree that since she is over 18 she should have dealt with this herself.

She should deal with the issue HERE. It seems that it is resolved to her satisfaction except for the actual receipt of the check. If that does not happen I have no doubt that she will say something.
Yet here you are trying to fan the ashes of dispute into flames again.

Mike told me the whole clutch was kinked

Please post the email showing he said that. If true, that would certainly be an issue that should be brought here, but I'd like to see proof please.

 

[CeltGunn]

Julia, She works as a painter from 6 am until almost sundown. She's exhausted by the time she comes home. However, I will see if she's willing to make an account just to post the emails herself. Since you seem to think she needs to do so.

Even though I'm the one who brought it to the boards.

Lucille, My issue is that I absolutely detest when a business treats someone like they treated Cheyenne. Disregard the fact that she's my daughter. Imagine her being someone else. I would still expect proper treatment from a business. Now, I will copy & paste where Mike told me that the whole clutch was kinked.

MikeB <[email protected]> Jan 20 at 10:48 AM
To
Tina Abrahamson
Message body
also, the whole litter had kinks once we looked them over better, which are attributed to incubation temperature spike, not genetic. as previous clutches from same parents where flawless.

From: "Tina Abrahamson" <[email protected]>
To: "MikeB" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:37:16 AM
Subject: Re: '[email protected]' submitted the form from your 'Contact Us' page


Mike told my daughter it was just the one Pastave that was kinked. And once her emails are posted about it you folks will see that! I absolutely detest when people treat others in such a manner. And most especially when a business does this!

I understand that supposedly a check is being sent. That's acceptable to Cheyenne at this point. What is NOT Acceptable to Cheyenne Nor to myself, is the way she and I both have been treated by this company. And That is the whole reason behind my posting this issue. I assure you all, Mike still has communications in his email box between him and Cheyenne where he told her on the exact same day as above where he told me the whole clutch was kinked, that he told her only hers was. She was absolutely furious about it and asked me to show her My email with Mike about the whole clutch being kinked.

I know exactly what I saw and heard throughout this whole ordeal.

~Tina Abrahamson

 

[juliasara]

I'm just guessing here but is it possible she hasn't come here and posted the emails and spoken about the issue with mike because she is satisfied with the solution? To me it seems like you still have a problem with what has transpired but she doesn't. The emails mike posted show that she said she was satisfied with the proposed solution. If that's not true and she isn't satisfied she should let Mike know that as well as come here and post. You continuing to post here might land you on people's do not deal with list, some may also put your daughter on that list as well.

 

[juliasara]

Julia, She works as a painter from 6 am until almost sundown. She's exhausted by the time she comes home. However, I will see if she's willing to make an account just to post the emails herself. Since you seem to think she needs to do so.

Even though I'm the one who brought it to the boards.

The thing is the deal was between your daughter and mike, not you and Mike so even tho you posted about it here first she should be the one posting the details and continuing to hash it out with mike. I understand being tired at the end of the day but if she wants a resolution she agrees to she needs to take the time to correspond with mike. Many of us work long hours at out day jobs then come home and care for our families and large reptile collections, we understand tired trust me. If she is pleased with what Mike proposed then I see no reason to post here but if she's not she really should find the time. It will most likely be easier to do so here then in private because many of the members here will help mediate if need be. I also understand wanting to stick up for your daughter but she is an adult, my teen is years from being an adult and as much as I want to step in and fight for her I know I need to let her do it herself so she can learn those social skills and how to handle uncomfortable situations. I don't mean any disrespect but I really think you should ba.ct down and let her fight this one herself.

 

[CeltGunn]

Julia, I'll have her post here. She's complained to me about his dealings with us. I just posted about the kinking like you asked for. Now you're threatening that people might not deal with us because I brought the issue here.... How nice of you Julia.

How would You feel if you had been put in the situation she was? She had no idea about the FaunaClassified website. I'm the one who found it, I'm the one who's a housewife and home all day, able to try and deal with this issue. Since she and I went in together with the idea of breeding this snake with my other snakes.

Anyway, I'm off. Have a great day. We'll see how it all ends. My only goal was to make certain Mike does hold up to what he promises. Since he couldn't before. And make certain Others who might want to do business with this company know what could happen. Before posting here, Mike wasn't going to do a dang thing at all!

I'll leave it at that and wait to see if she does receive the check. If she does, I'll update this posting. Until then, this is where we sit...

~Tina Abrahamson

 

[BeauBoi]

Julia, I'll have her post here. She's complained to me about his dealings with us. I just posted about the kinking like you asked for. Now you're threatening that people might not deal with us because I brought the issue here.... How nice of you Julia.

How would You feel if you had been put in the situation she was? She had no idea about the FaunaClassified website. I'm the one who found it, I'm the one who's a housewife and home all day, able to try and deal with this issue. Since she and I went in together with the idea of breeding this snake with my other snakes.

Anyway, I'm off. Have a great day. We'll see how it all ends. My only goal was to make certain Mike does hold up to what he promises. Since he couldn't before. And make certain Others who might want to do business with this company know what could happen. Before posting here, Mike wasn't going to do a dang thing at all!

I'll leave it at that and wait to see if she does receive the check. If she does, I'll update this posting. Until then, this is where we sit...

~Tina Abrahamson

Julia wasn't threatening you, she was telling you the truth. I happen to know for a fact, that people who come across as problem buyers all to often endup on no-sale lists, and many sellers will interpret your injecting yourself into a deal between two adults as you being a problem buyer.

When you started this thread, you said you purchased the snake for your daughter, and we went with that. It wasn't until Mike told us that your daughter is an adult and purchased the snake herself, that we asked SHE post here.

Believe me, you have made abundantly clear that you aren't happy. However, we have yet to hear from the actual customer, your daughter.

From the emails that Mike provided, we all see that you daughter said that she was satisfied with the resolution. If she isn't satisfied, then SHE needs to tell us that. Until that times comes, you are only sharing second hand information, which isn't allowed here.

~Beau

 

[juliasara]

I DID NOT threaten you! I simply stated that some may choose not to because of how this issue was dealt with and the fact that you came here and posted instead of your adult daughter who was the one who bought the snake. If I were put in the situation she was I would have communicated with the seller myself, and if no resolution we were both happy with could be made I would have come here myself and posted. I'm not in any way saying she doesn't have a right to be upset, I simply said that she should be the one dealing with it. I'm not saying mike didn't drop the ball but he has provided emails from months ago where he said he would refund her or take the snake back, so to say he wouldn't have done anything if you hadn't posted here isn't really fair. He forgot, and apologized for that, have you never made a mistake and forgotten about something? We're there ever any emails he from your daughter that he completely ignored? If so then maybe he wouldn't have but she also waited 3 months right? If she had sent multiple emails in that time that were never answered that would be one thing. So if Mike follows through and sends twice as much as she asked for I'd say that is pretty honorable. If she receives it she should come here and post stating she got the check and is satisfied.

 

[Mistyck]

Julia, I'll have her post here. She's complained to me about his dealings with us. I just posted about the kinking like you asked for. Now you're threatening that people might not deal with us because I brought the issue here.... How nice of you Julia.

Please point out where she threatened you, because there is not a threat in what Julia wrote. So, kindly re-read her post and point out where it's threatening please.

Here is her post and I have made the statement you're obviously referring to more bold.

I'm just guessing here but is it possible she hasn't come here and posted the emails and spoken about the issue with mike because she is satisfied with the solution? To me it seems like you still have a problem with what has transpired but she doesn't. The emails mike posted show that she said she was satisfied with the proposed solution. If that's not true and she isn't satisfied she should let Mike know that as well as come here and post. You continuing to post here might land you on people's do not deal with list, some may also put your daughter on that list as well.

So I still don't see a threat in there. I see a hypothetical situation (which I made larger in size), but definitely no threat.

How would You feel if you had been put in the situation she was? She had no idea about the FaunaClassified website. I'm the one who found it, I'm the one who's a housewife and home all day, able to try and deal with this issue. Since she and I went in together with the idea of breeding this snake with my other snakes.

I would feel that I would have kept up with the seller of the snake to ensure that I got my refund if I were her. I wouldn't have sat on my rear end waiting to see what happened. That's how I would feel. Kudos to you for being home all day and being able to try to deal with HER issue. It is HER issue, Even if you and your daughter went in together with the idea of breeding this snake. SHE did the transaction, not you. So you can kick-start her to get this issue handled as the original transaction didn't have anything to do with you; except for the fact that your daughter could take time to complain about the situation to you. If she could take that time to complain to you, then she could have used that time to get into contact with Mike and get it handled on her own.

The excuse that she works funky hours and is exhausted does not hold merit for me. There are tons of people out there who work weird hours and still manage to handle their own lives and problems without help from others. If your daughter wanted this issue handled, then she should (and could) have handled it. But since you stepped in and got things going again; GREAT! Awesome, now step back and let your daughter and Mike handle the issue between themselves; as the agreement was between Mike & Your daughter.

Anyway, I'm off. Have a great day. We'll see how it all ends. My only goal was to make certain Mike does hold up to what he promises. Since he couldn't before. And make certain Others who might want to do business with this company know what could happen. Before posting here, Mike wasn't going to do a dang thing at all!

I'll leave it at that and wait to see if she does receive the check. If she does, I'll update this posting. Until then, this is where we sit...

~Tina Abrahamson

It's not your job to make sure Mike holds up his end of the bargain. It's your daughter's job to do that. If your daughter doesn't keep up with him, then that's your daughter's issue; not yours. And if you have money invested through your daughter, you should take it up with her and keep pressure on her to make sure she keeps up with things. You have no dog in this fight to keep up with Mike to make sure he holds up his end. The only dog in the fight you have is with your daughter keeping up with things on her end. If she doesn't receive a check, then SHE needs to get with Mike again and post here. (If she feels it necessary. If she doesn't then oh well. That's on her.)

 

[juliasara]

I completely agree Brandi, like I keep saying to her this isn't her fight and she doesn't seem to understand why we keep asking for her to back down and have her daughter post here. I work crazy hours (24 hour shifts), have a family and a large reptile collection to care for, I still have time to go online to post here and post sales adds and what not. It's part of being an adult! I really think her daughter is satisfied and she's not. If her daughter wasn't she would make time to publicly show her dissatisfaction with mike. I know how hard it is to believe our kids were wronged and how much any mom would want to fight for what they think their child deserves. I have the urge to do that all the time but I don't want my daughter to expect I'll do that and not learn how to fight for herself. For your daughters sake let her deal with this herself. It's a great learning experience and if she comes here there are lots of great people that can help her if she needs it. Plus you'll save yourself from getting labeled as a problem customer.

 

[Lucille]

Julia, I'll have her post here.

There you go again. Why not just tell her about the thread, ask her to read it, and let her make up her own mind about what to do?
If you 'have' her post, I would suspect that you would badger her into WHAT to post.

 

[leftycrane]

Im curious about the email regarding the whole clutch being kinked. Kinda seems like a big deal. If Mike is now saying the entire clutch is kinked, Im sorry, but how do you know notice that earlier? If this is not correct, and it was just hers, where is the disconnect?

 

[Fangthane]

Some of you seem awfully hung up on the fact that her daughter isn't the one who brought this situation here - pointlessly, I believe. Both a moderator and the site's owner have posted in this thread, neither having expressed any apparent issue with just who happens to be here telling the story. If it's your opinion that it's her daughter's place to be doing the posting, fine, I think it's been made clear by now. If you're saying that that's an absolute must posting on the BOI and having the situation taken seriously, you're definitely not speaking for me - nor would it seem that you're speaking for the BOI itself. This isn't a situation where someone who's not directly involved is choosing to pass on second-hand information. We're getting it from a direct participant who apparently had some breeding stake in the animal, which also makes it her issue.

Yeah, the seller now seems to be taking care of the situation. Of course, some may find it noteworthy that it took the situation making it's way to the BOI for that to happen. I personally don't really care who's posting what; I like all the information possible. I'd like to see the emails that were sent and never replied to, as well as those replies that were supposedly rude or unprofessional. Screenshots would be much better than this copy/paste stuff we're getting. A satisfactory resolution doesn't negate any BS it may have taken to finally get there. I'd like to see just what it took.

I gotta say that not noticing a whole kinked clutch - as well as an obvious kink in an animal that someone had to physically handle while photographing for the "stock photo" as well as packaging after sale - doesn't speak too highly of the attention to detail of this company and any employees it may have. Neither does letting this situation fall through the cracks in the first place. One might even go so far as to wonder if a convicted smuggler can ever truly care enough about animals to see them as more than just something to get cashed in - any considerations like legalities or deformities be damned.

I happen to know for a fact, that people who come across as problem buyers all to often endup on no-sale lists, and many sellers will interpret your injecting yourself into a deal between two adults as you being a problem buyer.

It can be a fickle mob, and one can never be too sure just what means what to whom. For example, some may have trouble taking someone very seriously after they chose to interject themselves into an ad simply to call people "haters" for pointing out how a seller may be intentionally exaggerating an animal's genetics. Or, maybe I'm the only one who'd read such an exchange and decide that said interloper isn't someone who can't be counted on for a mature, objective interpretation of any given situation. Fickle, as I'd said.

When you started this thread, you said you purchased the snake for your daughter, and we went with that.

Two things: 1) She didn't start this thread. 2) I'm not seeing where she claims to have bought the snake for her daughter.

Hopefully the link works to my photo album, this is the Pastave we purchased from him. There's a long story to go with this Pastave, My daughter & I purchased it from Mike. Please tell me what you see wrong with it...

If you 'have' her post, I would suspect that you would badger her into WHAT to post.

Gotta ove how you skipped over the part where she provided what you'd asked for and just jumped on one meaningless snippet.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

Dan, if you look at the dates of the emails, this situation was being handled by us the exact way as it was posted here BEFORE her original post. We did not handle it any different because it is now here.
The whole clutch had mild kinking, like tail nub, or when you run your hand on the body you can feel an abnormality, though not visible. We did this AFTER she notified us her snake had a kink.
Her Mom is confused , she not reading her own daughters emails correctly. Her daughter asked for discount herself, after the email from us IMMEDIATELY OFFERING a return label. We asked her what kind of discount did she want? She said 50% . We agreed, but just never applied it on our back-end. We let her keep the snake, as she said she would provide it with a good home, for 100% refund cost of snake due to our error.
It is not the norm for our company to miss things like this both paperwork wise, nor physically missing a deformity.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

@ Megan - we inspected the whole clutch to see if it was an isolated kink on one animal once the customer notified us of an issue. We then inspected them beyond thoroughly so that no other customer had same issue. All 5-6 snakes were given away as pets, some to teachers, some to just kids that wanted a snake. All snakes fed, shed, and defecated normally. The tail tip on a couple was slightly nub like caramel albino ball pythons, and 2 others had an indentation if you ran your fingers along the spine... NONE you could visually see without extreme close examination. The one customer recieved posed great for pics, but did not stretch out, nor crawl around, just remained coiled up, and every three seconds would hide its head. If it had crawled around, struck, moved through our fingers instead of just coiling up in the direction of the kink, we might have noticed

 

[BeauBoi]

It can be a fickle mob, and one can never be too sure just what means what to whom. For example, some may have trouble taking someone very seriously after they chose to interject themselves into an ad simply to call people "haters" for pointing out how a seller may be intentionally exaggerating an animal's genetics. Or, maybe I'm the only one who'd read such an exchange and decide that said interloper isn't someone who can't be counted on for a mature, objective interpretation of any given situation. Fickle, as I'd said.

Funny that you bring up maturity. You make a not--so-veiled reference to a disagreement we had on a completely unrelated thread (which you refused to reply to when I pointed out that the fact that if his morphs ARE sex-linked, then they are NOT like yours).....SO glad your "not a hater".
~Beau

 

[BeauBoi]

@Fangthane

Also, she didn't say, "have" her daughter post, as in she was in possession of the post and provided it! She said that she would "have" her daughter post, as in she would have her daughter post it at a later date. Pay attention.
~Beau

 

[leftycrane]

Thank you for clarifying Mike. That sounds like a reasonable and likely occurrence to me. How very kind and generous of you to give them away as pets. Especially to teachers! I loved having a snake in my classroom a few years ago.

 

[Fangthane]

Dan, if you look at the dates of the emails, this situation was being handled by us the exact way as it was posted here BEFORE her original post. We did not handle it any different because it is now here.

There's a world of difference between something "being handled" and something finally being resolved.

You make a not--so-veiled reference to a disagreement we had on a completely unrelated thread (which you refused to reply to when I pointed out that the fact that if his morphs ARE sex-linked, then they are NOT like yours).....SO glad your "not a hater".

You seem to be implying that I was involved. What did I "refuse" to reply to? Not like mine? My what? I didn't participate in that ad, so we didn't have any disagreement about anything that may or may not have been like "mine". But by all means, don't let the facts get in the way of an emotional, knee-jerk reaction. Thanks for so clearly illustrating my point.

Also, she didn't say, "have" her daughter post, as in she was in possession of the post and provided it! She said that she would "have" her daughter post, as in she would have her daughter post it at a later date. Pay attention.

Not sure what point you thought you were making there. I'm very well aware of what she meant. You trying to reprimand me for perceived lack of attention is pretty funny, though. Were someone paying attention to the thread, they may have seen this:

Please post the email showing he said that. If true, that would certainly be an issue that should be brought here, but I'd like to see proof please.

After the information was supplied, Lucille chose to simply latch on to a trivial comment that had no bearing on anything, instead of addressing what she'd asked for. It was a very petty move that would accomplish nothing more than preemptively questioning credibility when I don't feel there's any contextual clues to support a lack of credibility. Do try to keep up with what's actually going on, please.

 

[BeauBoi]

I see why others ignore you. I think I will too. Go play by yourself.
~Beau

 

[bcr229]

CeltGunn would it be possible to attach the picture of the pastave, that shows the kink? Also how long after it arrived did you notice the kink?

Some kinks are obvious immediately, and may be severe enough that euthanizing the snake is the only humane outcome. Others do take a while to show up. I have an 18 month old BRB I produced that has a very mild neck kink - it's so mild I didn't know about it for several months, and even today it's not obvious unless pointed out. Because there were 23 other perfect babies in that litter I doubt it's a genetic issue, but I would never sell that snake as a breeder.

Similarly I wouldn't consider even a mildly kinked ball python to be breeder-quality, there are so many perfect critters on the market that there's no need to produce offspring from imperfect ones.