Bad Guy Mike Matson (Mike's Phat Frogs) sold me a WC snake as CB

[jaggyinn]

I met Mike at Phoenix Repticon on 4/2, where I purchased a female Madagascan Giant Hognose snake from his table for $170. I asked him directly whether it was captive-bred or WC, and he said CB with no hesitation. My boyfriend was with me at the time of purchase and can attest to that.

A month after purchasing the animal showed bumps and lumps on her body. The vet diagnosed her with a heavy intestinal and subcutaneous parasite load, and that she was most likely WC. On that first visit he removed 6 adult worms from under her skin, and we started deworming treatment. I took her back two weeks later for another round of dewormer.

Unfortunately she passed away on 5/19. The necropsy showed that she had eleven adult parasitic worms in her body. These worms caused systemic inflammation and fluid buildup around her heart, finally causing her heart to stop. The vet said she must've been pretty heavily infested when Mike sold her.

She was my first and only reptile, if he’d been honest with me regarding her WC status I would not have purchased her. I did roughly 6 months of serious research before going to the show and was not looking for a WC animal.

After her death, I emailed Mike to explain what happened, and to ask for a refund since he had lied to me about her. He denied having ever said she was CB, even insisting that he told me of her WC status. I can guarantee that did not happen; he was quite happy to say the snake was CB to make a sale.

Regarding his statement that no Malagasy Giant Hognoses are produced in the US, there are a couple of ads for CB snakes on this forum alone. There was no reason for me to not believe him at the time.

I only had Skittles for 1.5 months. I did what I could to bring her health up. I've attached her vet reports, the necropsy report, and the email convo. Hopefully this serves to warn others looking to buy "CB" snakes from him.

 

[jaggyinn]

I've decided to attach the email in one post for continuity.

 

[owlbear]

I've read nothing but bad things on the BOI about this person. This is so incredibly sad.

 

[tcp2]

Mike Matson has a lot of old BOI posts as to how dishonest he is. Too bad you did not know this about him before spending so much money on a sick animal, and even more on the Vet bills.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

My condolences on the loss of your pet's life.

 

[Sofia]

How very sad.

I hope you won't let this tragic start dissuade you from trying again. There are some good sellers and breeders out there and the Fauna BOI is a great place to find them, as well as to find out who to avoid.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Marie84]

I hope you know there ARE ethical breeders out there. I've had amazing experiences so far, but I've done my research.

This guy FLAT OUT LIED to you. That's disgusting. (I wouldn't want a WC animal either if I'm honest for...well, sadly for the exact reasons that this girl died. You just do not know the health status of a WC animal.)

 

[SynPlus]

Howdy. I have been following your experiences on reddit and was curious if you ever had a follow up regarding this?

I'm also very sorry your otherwise healthy looking snake passed away a few days after you had taken this photo. I just strongly feel that it could have possibly been something that happened at the vet. Dr. Bjornebo and Dr. Johnson are fantastic vets, but sometimes things just... happen.

I did speak with Mike Matson at the Phoenix Repticon back in May. I also sat at a booth right next to his for a significant part of Saturday and Sunday. I do distinctly recall him saying that his Madagascar Hognoses were imports/farmed.

Here is a screenshot of a previous post he made and he does state that they are farmed:

I believe this may have just been a miscommunication/misinterpretation. I understand that Mike seems to have a not-so-fantastic reputation on Fauna, but the two Tokay Geckos I purchased from him, that he made sure that I knew were wild caught, are still thriving and eating.

 

[SynPlus]

I have been following your experiences on reddit and was curious if you ever had a follow up regarding this?

Apologies, I completely missed the follow up necropsy. It does look like you did a follow up necropsy with another vet. Did they tell if you the hemorrhaging was due to the previous procedure?

 

[jaggyinn]

Thanks everyone for the support. Mike obviously read this thread, because he sent me this extremely professional email.

Regarding the proof he wants, well before Repticon I didn't know he existed, nevermind the contents of his facebook. The only proof I have is my word, and that of my boyfriend's. He told me at Repticon, without hesitation, that she was captive-bred.

I won't be replying to him since I already wasted too much time thinking about this, but anything he sends me I'll be sure to post it here.

 

[jaggyinn]

Apologies, I completely missed the follow up necropsy. It does look like you did a follow up necropsy with another vet. Did they tell if you the hemorrhaging was due to the previous procedure?

Hi there. I indeed had the necropsy done at a different vet, in order to rule out a possible conflict of interest. The hemorrhaging was due to parasites, not the previous vet's procedure.

 

[jaggyinn]

If anyone's interested in following the Skittles story, you can easily find it via my user name on either reddit, or I took a few pics on Instagram. From the very beginning I've always said she was CB, because that's what Mike told me.

I'm not a breeder and I'm not a seller, I just wanted a healthy pet.

 

[Marie84]

Hmm I can see where the confusion with the term 'farmed' may be, but no way would there be confusion with the question 'Are these wild caught or captive bred?'

 

[SynPlus]

Hmm I can see where the confusion with the term 'farmed' may be, but no way would there be confusion with the question 'Are these wild caught or captive bred?'

I guess in that aspect it's just he-said-she-said at that point.

That being said, I am just curious at this point why emails weren't sent out before the hognose had died, especially once the vet had verified it. Only after the hognose had died was any contact with Mike initiated.

Personally, the second I found out it was wild caught IF I was originally told otherwise, if I were in her position according to what she has told us so far, I would have been emailing Mike to figure something out.

Waiting until after the snake died just seems a little off. This is just my opinion, I am willing to read all the facts, don't get me wrong.

 

[SynPlus]

especially once the vet had verified it

verified it, meaning that it was wild caught. Sorry, I really should proof read and actually read more tonight. It's late.

 

[Marie84]

Personally, the second I found out it was wild caught IF I was originally told otherwise, if I were in her position according to what she has told us so far, I would have been emailing Mike to figure something out.

Waiting until after the snake died just seems a little off. This is just my opinion, I am willing to read all the facts, don't get me wrong.

Yeah, hoping we hear his side too.

 

[SynPlus]

Yeah, hoping we hear his side too.

You won't, he has been banned from posting on Fauna, he can be a little hot headed from what I've read. That being said, when I made a purchase with him, and while I was sitting at a booth next to his, he was very honest and up front while I was listening to him talk to attendees at Repticon.

Anyway, he has posted on his Facebook page that he is very firm that he said they were not CB but farmed/wild caught, posting the same screenshot that he has shared with Jing that I posted as well in my first post on this thread.

While I was at the show I do distinctly remember him telling an attendee that the Madagascar Hognose he was looking at was wild caught. When I purchased two tokay geckos from him during that show, he told me right away they were wild caught. I know, he-said-she-said.

Jing, do you have any receipts that say wild caught or captive bred?

 

[dhaisten]

Too many vendors use the term "farmed" rather than just stating that an animal is an import (WC). There are some legitimate farms in Indonesia for different species of snakes. One is cleaner than the others. Regardless, a true farmed animal will be started on lizards or similar prey items if they will not start on mice. One farm breed mice, or they did in the past. Water supply may introduce "protists". So, clear of helminths does not mean free of potential pathogens such as Entamoeba invadens, giardia, etc. Simply, people should stop using the term farmed unless there is proof that an animal was hatched on a "farm". No proof, no farm. By farmed I mean, adult animals bred at the facility. Not collected eggs from a gravid female that are hatched....regarding the treatment at 2 week intervals, I suspect what was administered was fenbendazole. Effective against many nematodes, but not against filarial nematodes. Ivermectin is the drug of choice for filarial nematodes. Their death is likely the death of the snake. It seem like nematodes that are extra-intestinal are not affected by fenbendazole. I lost a Manokwari green tree python that was "farmed" to mesenteric nematodes. Possibly a type of strongyle that inhabits the mesentery. Took four years to manifest. A ticking time bomb. The Manokwari was not farmed. He was a large golden juvenile when I got him. Clearly wild caught. I would get back on the horse if I were you, but buy from a breeder that produced an animal. I would recommend a Jungle Carpet Python. There are some beautiful ones being produced these days. Better than ever.

 

[dhaisten]

Sorry all, had hit quick reply. Giant run on sentence pretty much. I will try again....

Too many vendors use the term "farmed" rather than just stating that an animal is an import (WC).

There are some legitimate farms in Indonesia for different species of snakes. One is cleaner than the others. I have no idea about African region animals, I do not keep them. Regardless, a true farmed animal will be started on lizards or similar prey items if they will not start on mice. If and only if the "farm" raises rodents.

One farm in Indo breeds mice, or they did in the past. Water supply may introduce "protists". So, clear of helminths does not mean free of potential pathogens such as Entamoeba invadens, giardia, etc. I have been told this by someone that owns a farm...and it is common sense. I suspected that this occurs before being told.

People should stop using the term farmed unless there is proof that an animal was hatched on a "farm". No proof, no farm. By farmed I mean, adult animals bred at the facility. Not collected eggs from a gravid female that are hatched and thrown lizards. Scars on an animal? Hmmmm. Farmed?

Regarding the treatment at 2 week intervals, I suspect what was administered was fenbendazole. Effective against many nematodes, but not against filarial nematodes. Ivermectin is the drug of choice for filarial nematodes. If hitting filarial nematodes with Ivermectin, their death is likely the death of the snake.
I have read and heard that fenbendazole has a wide safety margin. I am not a fan of putting medications into prey items. Sloppy in some cases.

It seems like nematodes that are extra-intestinal are not affected by fenbendazole. I lost a Manokwari green tree python that was sold to me as "farmed", to mesenteric nematodes. Possibly a type of strongyle that inhabits the mesentery. Took four years to manifest. A ticking time bomb. The Manokwari was definitely not farmed. He was a large golden juvenile when I got him. Clearly wild caught. I de-wormed him at the time, for anything that could be killed.

I would get back on the horse if I were you, but buy from a reputable breeder that produces their animals. I would recommend a Jungle Carpet Python. There are some beautiful ones being produced these days. Better than ever. Or Antaresia pythons....whatever floats your boat.

 

[jaggyinn]

I guess in that aspect it's just he-said-she-said at that point.

That being said, I am just curious at this point why emails weren't sent out before the hognose had died, especially once the vet had verified it. Only after the hognose had died was any contact with Mike initiated.

Personally, the second I found out it was wild caught IF I was originally told otherwise, if I were in her position according to what she has told us so far, I would have been emailing Mike to figure something out.

Waiting until after the snake died just seems a little off. This is just my opinion, I am willing to read all the facts, don't get me wrong.

I read through the entire 70 page thread about the frogs. His posts there made me not want to contact him at all. The only reason I emailed him is because the vet tech at the necropsy clinic suggested that I ask for a refund of the snake's price. But it only confirmed that he actually did lie to me.