Bad Guy Scammed by Andrew Michael Popp Las Vegas, NV

[Chris Kennard]

If they ended up being het? Another stark contrast from your previous statements. As I said before, you're willingness to breed turtles you claim to be too small or too young to breed is a reflection on your ulterior motive here. You have no case. If you claim "size" is the issue, you're done. If you claim "het" is the issue, you're done, thanks to your most recent post.

 

[calebroad]

And THAT is what deligitimizes this place.

The fact that a certain group of people we all recognize as "regulars" who get their jollys "baiting" people for their own enjoyment.

Just sad that this is what BoI has devolved into. Thanks a bunch to all you regulars.

I don't hate on trolls, I am a constitutionalist and even if I had the authority to ban them, I would not ban them. The members in the community know who the "regulars" are - cyber trolls have free speech just like the next guy.

The boi is entertainment, and perhaps without trolls, it would not be entertainment.

Cyber trolls are not paid a penny for their work, and they are not recognized as professionals. And they depend on other cyber trolls to back them up.

At the end of the day, their is no pay or benefits. At least a scammer gets paid. Anyways - let the trollers troll - and the scammers scam!!

The scammers are probably worse, since Again, they get paid for their work. And they don't offer entertainment like trolls.

 

[filenamex5100]

youll never see eye to eye. everyone thinks they make a point here. myself included. I'm sure ive said things in other threads that make no sense to anyone but me. opinions vary. that being said.... everytime you address the troll issue, you are encouraging that response!

would you admit/agree that your last post (#482) was antagonistic? youre only saying those things knowing that others will respond. I'm starting to think you actually like it.
you surely don't expect us to believe that you are not reading what the "trolls" are writing?? lets say for a minute that you are in fact ignoring those post. by quoting and addressing the issue at all shows that you are incapable of distancing yourself from it.

if a certain post doesn't directly have a positive vibe towards your original issue at hand, why even get involved? honestly I'm not even sure why I'm still replying to this thread.
from the outside looking in....you are making a fool out of yourself, calebroad. people may wonder why the BOI turns into comedy. this is comedy for me at this point.

 

[tlmoon]

I think you have a very skewed view of things. I don't see "trolls", I see people who ask questions you don't like and disagree with you. The way you speak back to them is a pretty good example of "trollish" behavior on your part. Yes, I think there are a few who prod you a bit, because you generally lash out. But some of the nastiest things in this thread have been said by you.

Anyway, by admitting they might be hets, you undermine your whole entire argument. As I've said before, unless you absolutely know they aren't hets then all this is conjecture. I understand that you have your reasons for thinking there were some shenanigans, but still you don't really truly know.

I don't know what Andrew and the store are going to do, but if I were in their shoes, falsely accused and being subjected to continued defamation of character and libel (from their point of view), I would certainly hit back. Your worst case scenario here may not be not winning the case - it may being sued yourself and having a judgment made against you. You've done a pretty good job in making their case for them: all those statements about fraud and criminals, etc, then admitting you don't truly know whether they are hets or not, contradicting yourself, and so on.

 

[filenamex5100]

tlmoon....well said.
I think I said it before that this, for a lack of better evidence, is a case of buyers remorse. the het thing cant be proven until much later which means a judge likely wouldn't issue a judgment against a defendant.

on the other hand...all the defamation of the parties involved is plain as day and doesn't need to wait. the op just doesn't know how to vanish and stop talking. this thread will be around forever but at least the sooner its left alone, the sooner it can bury itself in the darker pages of the BOI (for the op's sake).

calebroad, you have a right to think what you want and do what you want. just don't be foolish enough to think the defense wont have a copy of this thread and the statements you have made within it. if they don't already, your lawsuit would likely have whats called a "discovery" period (I just successfully settled 2 lawsuits). that period is to gather additional info/evidence.

i would think at a minimum you will be counter sued after this is over. i could be wrong but i would think just because someone has a criminal past, you cant talk trash about them because you want your way and to sway someones judgment into your favor based on a criminal history. that doesn't seem right to me. people make mistakes. some live and learn, some don't. it still cant be used to determine someones ethic in all aspects of life. just my opinions of course. same for you....no matter what you will either live and learn from this or you wont but i would think you would want the opportunity to do business in the future without being reminded of the mistakes you've made in this thread.

 

[calebroad]

tlmoon....well said.
I think I said it before that this, for a lack of better evidence, is a case of buyers remorse. the het thing cant be proven until much later which means a judge likely wouldn't issue a judgment against a defendant.

on the other hand...all the defamation of the parties involved is plain as day and doesn't need to wait. the op just doesn't know how to vanish and stop talking. this thread will be around forever but at least the sooner its left alone, the sooner it can bury itself in the darker pages of the BOI (for the op's sake).

calebroad, you have a right to think what you want and do what you want. just don't be foolish enough to think the defense wont have a copy of this thread and the statements you have made within it. if they don't already, your lawsuit would likely have whats called a "discovery" period (I just successfully settled 2 lawsuits). that period is to gather additional info/evidence.

i would think at a minimum you will be counter sued after this is over. i could be wrong but i would think just because someone has a criminal past, you cant talk trash about them because you want your way and to sway someones judgment into your favor based on a criminal history. that doesn't seem right to me. people make mistakes. some live and learn, some don't. it still cant be used to determine someones ethic in all aspects of life. just my opinions of course. same for you....no matter what you will either live and learn from this or you wont but i would think you would want the opportunity to do business in the future without being reminded of the mistakes you've made in this thread.

There is an entertainment value of trolls, and I do enjoy the BOI.

I always insisted the description was false, the size was wrong, the satisfaction guarantee was not honored, the hets are false, and so on. And the turtles were posted six months earlier, as non hets, and the size was intentionally inflated, based on that post. Even after the scam unraveled, I was promised, in writing a refund.

However, with the het situation I have fully admitted that although I am sure, and I will know soon. I cannot prove that point 100%.

So that is not breaking news. It was a scam - and I was careless for sending the money so quickly. And I trusted Andrew Popp - which was a stupid thing to do.

As far as the defendants, they asked I give the hets time to prove out, before pursuing on. And that is something we are considering, as I recently posted. We are also exploring other avenues to confirm.

Nick stated he believed that I can possibly grow the turtles, quicker than I initially thought. So I am providing warm water and lots of food, and UV - the attorneys say I can amend the claim, as to provide more time, or dismiss without prejudice, then refile when that are proven as non-het.

Lots of options are on the table, lots of ppl say to avoid the BOI, for troll sake. But I honestly find entertainment in the BOI, as I do the hobby itself. But also in the mix of junk, I also find constructive criticism and information, of which has been relevant and useful.

 

[filenamex5100]

careless or not, you shouldn't be scammed if that's what actually happened. carless or not with your money. if you possess other evidence, that's great for you (honestly I'm too lazy nor have a vested interest to look back for it).
your claim/thread is so lengthy and confusing that the high paid wigs that may decide your case might have a clouded judgment (like I do). almost one of those "lets dismiss it because its so confusing". you just admitted that you cant prove the het situation. that to me is the brunt of your case. the size difference is another....which you admitted you could likely live with that. so I am wondering where the wrong doing is.

if you are not 100% sure, you are 0%. "fact" leaves ZERO room for possibility. the defense may argue that your method of measuring turtles is not the norm either. and I'm no genetics expert but het doesn't always prove out even if it really is het right?! maybe all your other evidence will pull through and show his intent to deceive and defraud you. just seems like a slippery slope.

I really only got re-involved because of the "troll" comments. you avoided, or forgot my question. do you agree that the post was antagonistic on your behalf? if not, why bring up the exact point that you claim to be avoiding at all cost? please don't label me a troll for asking a question ;-) . I'm not picking on you. just trying to figure you out and wondering why you cant leave this thread alone when it offers nothing of value in your current situation.
obviously, this is all my opinion.

 

[calebroad]

careless or not, you shouldn't be scammed if that's what actually happened. carless or not with your money. if you possess other evidence, that's great for you (honestly I'm too lazy nor have a vested interest to look back for it).
your claim/thread is so lengthy and confusing that the high paid wigs that may decide your case might have a clouded judgment (like I do). almost one of those "lets dismiss it because its so confusing". you just admitted that you cant prove the het situation. that to me is the brunt of your case. the size difference is another....which you admitted you could likely live with that. so I am wondering where the wrong doing is.

if you are not 100% sure, you are 0%. "fact" leaves ZERO room for possibility. the defense may argue that your method of measuring turtles is not the norm either. and I'm no genetics expert but het doesn't always prove out even if it really is het right?! maybe all your other evidence will pull through and show his intent to deceive and defraud you. just seems like a slippery slope.

I really only got re-involved because of the "troll" comments. you avoided, or forgot my question. do you agree that the post was antagonistic on your behalf? if not, why bring up the exact point that you claim to be avoiding at all cost? please don't label me a troll for asking a question ;-) . I'm not picking on you. just trying to figure you out and wondering why you cant leave this thread alone when it offers nothing of value in your current situation.
obviously, this is all my opinion.

I don't label your post as troll. Yes, my post was likely antagonistic. Trolls have dominated this post as well as many others. And it doesn't bother me, I probably get a kick out of kicking a troll, haha. Especially when I have to work at night and things get boring.

Anyway, the fact that I have nothing else to add right now, except for repeating my claim is reason enough to stay off here. It won't take long for the trolls to unleash on this post.

The statement that I ignore the trolls post, is true, I really Scan over them, if you don't, things get so confusing that any accurate dipiction becomes unlikely.

The trolls cause havoc - but that's their goal. Anyway, my claim stands, even if I agreed to accept the size upon verifying the genetics, that's true. But they refused to verify. But anyway they offered a full refund after that offer.

We may very well wait to prove them out, time is on my side. But I may not, this is what courts are for. I've stood by my claim, and even if I lost in court, I would still insist it was a scam.

I will sign off, and refrain from commenting no matter what the dramatic trolls lash out about next.

I'll check back when I have something new to add about the status.

 

[Lucille]

The boi is entertainment

I believe that you have vigorously attempted to orchestrate and influence the readers here, and have gone so far as to lie to them in an effort to bolster your position in an unsuccessful attempt to bluff both the readers and the other parties into thinking you have more evidence than you do.
When readers saw through your falsehoods, you attempted a save by proclaiming that it is all merely entertainment.

You have still not provided requested evidence, and have not addressed the lies you fed to the readers here.

 

[Black Adder]

Good Lord Mr Davis, get a grip!

After reading your last few posts of diatribe it seems your definition of "troll" is somebody who does not agree with you or cowtow to you.
Then by all means continue to label the vast majority of the BOI participants as "trolls"!

You may have been genuinely wronged and if so that is obviously a concern BUT the way you handle yourself in the face of genuine questions and self inflicted criticism is what has brought you to the plight you are in right now.

You are the one who is doing all of the baiting sir not the BOI!

Please just stand back, take a deep breath, look around you, smell the roses, whatever it is that floats your boat and then shut off your pc and take a very long leave of absence!

 

[Mistyck]

I would assume you were correct as well. The store did not enter into the agreement with the OP. It does not matter where the original seller got the turtles, it matters who the OP did the deal with. The original seller was not selling them as an employee of the store, he merely stated that's where he was a part-time employee, but he did not state that he was selling them for the store or as store goods.

Now, if the OP wants to sue the original seller as an individual selling the turtles under false pretenses, then that's all good and well. But he cannot name the original seller as an acting employee of the store when the store is not the one who listed the original ad or had the original seller list the animals. Especially when the original seller never said he was selling them FOR the store. He said HE was selling them (as an individual.)

The court will more than likely see that this is the case and throw out the filings since the OP is not suing the correct person, then tell the OP to refile the paperwork citing the correct person he is suing.



You sir need to slow your roll, shut your trap and listen.

The more you act like a damned child, the longer you will be treated as such. You cannot stomp around her acting like you own the world, calling everyone who disagrees with you a troll and then expect sympathy. It does NOT work that way in the real world. As a former "law enforcement officer" you should know this. You should also know how much people hate it when other people are acting entitled. As a former LEO, you should also know that when you act like an idiot you get treated as such. I would assume that when you were an LEO and you had people who were kind, followed orders or requests and worked with you in a manner that was pleasant, that you were more inclined to help them out a bit more. When they were the opposite, you probably were a bit more of a jerk to them.

I know plenty of LEO's that would rather work with people who are kind than acting like a jerk. I would assume that YOU would rather have people be nice when you're interacting with the public (even on a public forum) so the key to getting others to be nice, is YOU being nice. You being an outright jack** to others, no matter if they've ever wronged you or not; proves that you think you can act like the world revolves around you, and you expect others to think the same. It does not work that way. You may think it does, but it does not.

10-1 you will ignore this whole post, or call me a troll but truthfully; it doesn't matter to me either way. I'm not the one who brought this thread to this forum; you did. You chose to bring this thread to the forum, yet you can't take it when the pan gets too hot for you. You need to learn to take a damn chill pill and then respond. Or else you're going to look like an idiot every time...

Good luck out there dude. You're going to need it.

Just like I thought, he skipped right over the post, half-way addressed part of it and then threw out what he didn't want to read.

Mr. Davis, You're being a damned child, and the constant use of the word "Trolls" is getting quite old. You know what a troll is? Go look in the mirror sir. (Of course if you ask my children, they would tell you that a troll sings and dances a lot and has funky hair.) You are doing yourself no favors by continuing to spew your crap about people and how they are "trolls" on this forum. If you think so little of this forum and the people who use it, then begone and you won't have to think of it or them again.

But no, you'd rather be here for the "trolling" value of your own agenda than leave and have no one to argue with and show what a damn right-fighter you are. You are a kettle calling the pot black, and can't see past the end of your nose. For continuing to spew off like such a grown man, you sure act like a complete and utter impudent child.

I understand what your saying, I hope that I can win the case, and I would not move forward if I felt I could not.

If I lose, it will be inconvenient. Either way, I will be more careful in the future. I should have been more careful, and when buying in the future, I will use escrow services or extremely careful measures to avoid these things.

My claim remains that funds were obtained under false pretenses. And we are taking measures to prove out the het problem quickly.

I had two bad transactions among many, and one of those was recently resolved. So I am somewhat greatful that my loss is limited.

In a worse case scenario, I will have to suck up the entire loss, and try to recoup the funds from these turtles he sent me. If they ended up being het, I know it's very unlikely. But I would surely get a big huge laugh in the face of the trolls. - lol

Anyway, we will see. Thanks

As for this crap that you wrote out; You're damn good at playing the victim, and then acting as though you're going to stop all the scammers of the world by being a "hero."

It doesn't matter what your claims are. You are suing the wrong person. He was not acting as an employee of the store, so the store should not be in your suit.

As for your "het" problem; just how are you going to prove that out considering you said that they are not of size to be bred, and that it would take a year to 2 years for them to be so? You are being contradictory with your own statements.

You may have had 2 bad transactions among many good ones; but the way you've handled yourself with the 2, (3 if you count that you brought a NON-trade related issue to the BOI and tried to stir the pot with one of the moderators so you could suit your own agenda...) has left most of the people wondering if you just like the drama.

You prove that you do have some intelligence when you post as most of them are thought out and intelligible; but between those posts you make posts that make you look as though your intelligence has gone out the window. Leaving everyone to believe that you just like making yourself look like a fool. You have fun with your endeavors, but don't expect everyone here to want to help you out. Especially when you decide to call them fools, trolls and are downright rude to them.

 

[Snake-Queen]

After reading all of this, I must say, Chris you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your words. Name calling is counterproductive and childish, especially if you want to be taken seriously.

You asked for opinions on what one would do in your position … since it has been established that you have accepted the size discrepancy as ok, it is in your best interest to drop the current lawsuit until the turtles can be proven out, or disproven. Which, could take 2 - 3 breeding seasons to equivocally prove that they are not hets. Proving hets is a numbers game, the more eggs you have hatched without a caramel, the more likely the females are not hets.

At this point in time, your contract is the only thing you have to be able to recoup money if they don't prove out. You've jumped the gun in bringing a lawsuit before you know 100% that they are not het.

 

[filenamex5100]

calebroad....again you have said sign off. I hope that's the case. I'm not asking for a reply. specially since you have decided to sign off.

I think what blackadder has said is true. when you don't agree with what someone has said, you label them a troll after a few repeated attempts. this is the BOI. you have to know before coming here (just like a court) that evidence will be needed to back up your claims and statements. coming here assuming someone/everyone will just agree with you is dangerous to your reputation.
let this sink in for a minute.....if scales n tails had something I wanted to buy....nothing in this post would stop me from doing business with them at this point. come to think about it, they have a etb I am considering currently.

my point is, you havnt, to me at least, shown any proof of wrong doing on their behalf. I could honestly careless about the Andrew part because I have deemed it buyers remorse at this point.

don't feel singled out. If memory serves correct, I have had Chris Kennard , Lucille, and others come down on me before. maybe not as harsh as on you but still. I think the difference is I supplied enough evidence to satisfy their suspicions and educate their judgment on the issue. that goes back to the statement I made about assuming everyone will agree with you (statements you made) and then not backing it up with proof.
in my experience, a guilty of wrongdoing party will hang themselves!! usually with statements that cant be backed up in an attempt to bluff or intimidate someone. one that comes to mind is a boi thread I started when the other party stated something along the lines of "he changed the text and left things out". that statement ruined his credibility because that was not the case so now the burden of proof was on them to prove me wrong...which was impossible. again....anything you say can and will be used against you.

theoretically...... if a "troll" in your thread all of a sudden had a the magic bullet evidence to win your case, would they be a troll then! I say this because because I don't feel that a "troll" can pick and choose who they want to troll. you have been zeroed in on because your story, for a lack of better words, sucks. it has holes all in it. its not coincidence that the majority of people here are against you. there must a reason for that. I say this because no one wants to see you or anyone else get scammed....specially for that kind of $$$. I BET (my opinion) even Kennard wouldn't want you scammed. but if you havnt noticed, there a handful of people here that will not let you pass through the cracks unnoticed when you have a serious claim like this.

the only difference in the BOI and the justice system is (again, in my opinion), the burden of proof is on the plaintiff on the BOI when you start a thread. seems you started with a automatic grade of D and need to work your way back to an A. its never to late. but it requires you to either provide all the evidence (would could be counter productive to a pending lawsuit) or vanish and let it ride out.

the best medicine for your "trolls" is a winning lawsuit. wait for that but don't wait for an apology or anything else because I think you've dragged this out and caused such a issue that it still wouldn't be warranted from most here.

 

[Cletus Marley]

I think this is what he meant when he said the BOI is entertainment. It's absolutely what I meant when I said it. It seems like his detractors are just as butthurt as he is. He is stringing them along as much as they are coming back at him. He knows all he has to do is mention that almighty "troll" buzzword and it triggers people. The last word!!! Everyone has to have it. It's been that way since childhood and doesn't change for some! The worst thing you could do to this guy is ignore him. That would really make him crazy. Right now he is just having fun.

 

[filenamex5100]

I could agree to that, jay. jokes on the op though. he is here to get something accomplished or he wouldn't have come here at all. everyone else still has their $$$ and no headache. I guess if the entertainment value helps the op, that's good enough for me.
but I could say with pretty accurate certainty that most people (or more) would be involved in this thread in a different, more positive way if there were evidence to support the op. that leads me to wonder why the op would turn this into entertainment. it was clear to me mid way through this thread that the op was not happy with the way he felt he was being treated. these are just my observations. I couldn't care less either way. the suit just seems like a waste of time, resources, and reputations.
the only person claiming to ignore anyone is the op ignoring those he deems a "troll". I think chris Kennard even said before that he would be asking the same questions to the other parties if they were here. I bet the op wouldn't have a problem with that. that seems a little one sided to me.

 

[bcr229]

At this point in time, your contract is the only thing you have to be able to recoup money if they don't prove out. You've jumped the gun in bringing a lawsuit before you know 100% that they are not het.

This is why I said to ask his NV attorney if the sales agreement would be considered a contract. If so, the SOL to bring a lawsuit is six years, which should be plenty of time to prove whether the turtles are hets as advertised, or not.

 

[pagankoala]

This is why I said to ask his NV attorney if the sales agreement would be considered a contract. If so, the SOL to bring a lawsuit is six years, which should be plenty of time to prove whether the turtles are hets as advertised, or not.

This is very true my friend about the time it takes for personal lawsuits give or take a couple years do to postponements on both sides to string cases out but is it legal to ask someone else's attorney about a case like this and will he even answer?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Cletus Marley]

I could agree to that, jay. jokes on the op though. he is here to get something accomplished or he wouldn't have come here at all. everyone else still has their $$$ and no headache. I guess if the entertainment value helps the op, that's good enough for me.
but I could say with pretty accurate certainty that most people (or more) would be involved in this thread in a different, more positive way if there were evidence to support the op. that leads me to wonder why the op would turn this into entertainment. it was clear to me mid way through this thread that the op was not happy with the way he felt he was being treated. these are just my observations. I couldn't care less either way. the suit just seems like a waste of time, resources, and reputations.
the only person claiming to ignore anyone is the op ignoring those he deems a "troll". I think chris Kennard even said before that he would be asking the same questions to the other parties if they were here. I bet the op wouldn't have a problem with that. that seems a little one sided to me.

I hear you. I'm not sticking up for the OP. He def dug his own grave. If you make a bad guy thread and have been here longer than about 10 minutes, you just have to know that questions will be asked and you really need to have real answers or it's going to be bad for you. There is a def pattern here with the OP.

 

[bcr229]

This is very true my friend about the time it takes for personal lawsuits give or take a couple years do to postponements on both sides to string cases out but is it legal to ask someone else's attorney about a case like this and will he even answer?

Not sure what you're asking here but I was under the impression that the OP had retained his own attorney after filing the suit. That attorney should be able to look at the paperwork and advise the OP of whether he has a four or six year SOL to bring a lawsuit.

 

[pagankoala]

Not sure what you're asking here but I was under the impression that the OP had retained his own attorney after filing the suit. That attorney should be able to look at the paperwork and advise the OP of whether he has a four or six year SOL to bring a lawsuit.

Oh my bad I halfway misunderstood [emoji6]

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