Bad Guy Snakes at Sunset - Michael Barrera - Sick Animals - Terrible Condition

[MrTPlush]

Do not buy from Snakes at Sunset their animals are disgusting.

I recieved a Desert Iguana on Wednesday and the fact this animal was shipped to me is a disgrace. Upon recieving the iguana the first thing I noticed was it looked very skinny. Not having a lot of experience with lizards I posted a thread on the forum to get feedback before saying anything. Two people replied confirming what I thought. Not only that but the iguana is very weak and not active. Once again I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions and figured it might just be cold from shipment and would perk up in a few days. Not so much the Iguana is still rarely ever moving and has no interest in eating. Today I noticed the iguana pooping out just clear liquid so I decided to take an even closer look. I wish I had not as I am totally disgusted at this point. The iguana is quite literally crawling with mites. There are multiple large ones by it's legs and very very small ones crawling on it's body. It is sad and pathetic anyone could allow such an animal to even be shipped. Mr. Barrera can make any excuse he wants, but there is no excuse his employees can't tell how seriously poor(and obvious) this iguana's health is.

Pictures are being posted within the next half hour. Yes I will let Mr. Barrera know I have posted this.

 

[MrTPlush]

Here are the photos. The mite photo only shows one, but it was hard to get it to focus so this is what I managed. The other leg was much worse. This animal was feld collected, but that is no excuse for this.

 

[Beyond GenetiX]

Did you contact them before posting this? Did you know the animal was field collected before purchasing it?

 

[Mike Schultz]

How long have you had it? Looks a little lean, but not anything completely out of the ordinary for a wild caught animal. Did you hydrate it upon arrival? What temperature is it at now? It looks a little dehydrated and cold, usually fresh WC animals will look a million times better after a soak and put under a nice hot bulb.

 

[MrTPlush]

How long have you had it?

Looks a little lean, but not anything completely out of the ordinary for a wild caught animal.

Don't completely disagree. I really wasn't worried about it being skinny until all the other issues started becoming obvious. I wasn't expecting a plump desert iguana and very aware it was field collected. However with other health issues it is much more of a concern.

Did you hydrate it upon arrival?

Yes

What temperature is it at now?

Hot spot is at 105. He is not cold. Also I have had him since Wednesday(August 16th)

^Answers

 

[MrTPlush]

Did you contact them before posting this?

I contacted them about it being not active and they replied saying it might be cold. I knew that, but I mostly sent them an email just incase it was something more. I didn't want to wait a week and then mention it. I also brought up how skinny it was, but I didn't get a reply Thursday afternoon or Friday. I called them today, but there was no one there that could help me.

 

[sdcr1121]

Positive experience

I'm sorry to hear that. I just purchased two turtles from them and they were active and alert when I picked them up on friday. The package was held at a fedex hub due to 100 degree weather here.

WC animals can be hit or miss. What is their policy with field collected animals?
I have noticed that reptiles rarely look ill until they are at death's door. I hope your iguana pulls through.

 

[Dyscophus antongilii]

I would very much like to "hear", well see, Snakes at Sunsets reaction to your thread. I agree your Dipsosaurus dorsalis looks very unhealthy. Can you return your current specimen to them? Will they give you another specimen?

I would also like to apologize for my incoherent post, on the other thread you posted.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I am too. It is very unfortunate for the OP and the Dipsosaurus dorsalis.

I just purchased two turtles from them and they were active and alert when I picked them up on friday.

What species of turtle did you get? Do you mean that you just received them this Friday? If so, how are they eating? How is the behavior of your specimens? Lastly, what was the approximate size of the specimens when you got them?

The package was held at a fedex hub due to 100 degree weather here.

That is very very good, in my humble opinion.

WC animals can be hit or miss.

I completely agree with that. However, in my humble opinion, the OP should NOT have received an animal in that condition. In other words, the seller should NOT have sent out the Dipsosaurus dorsalis looking like that.

What is their policy with field collected animals?.

This is all I can find about policies in general:http://snakesatsunset.com/shipping-returns/
Hopefully, someone will be more helpful then me, on this particular topic

I have noticed that reptiles rarely look ill until they are at death's door.

I agree with that a hundred and ten percent. Which, in my humble opinion, is very unfortunate.

I hope your iguana pulls through.

Me too. Please keep us updated on your Dipsosaurus dorsalis

 

[KNOBTAIL]

In the end these species will starve themselves to death if the spiral has not already begun. It should never have been sold in the first place. Especially if the photos are accurate.

 

[Snake-Queen]

In the end these species will starve themselves to death if the spiral has not already begun. It should never have been sold in the first place. Especially if the photos are accurate.

How exactly could the photos not be accurate?

 

[EdwardK]

The mite in question isn't they typical snake or lizard mite Ophionyssus ssp but is a chigger (see https://www.k-state.edu/herplab/lizards/collared.html for a picture of a mass of them on a lizard) and can be very common on these lizards in the wild. (possibly Acomatacarus arizonensis or Euschoengastoides longitarsala as per Walters, Brianne L., et al. "Host and distribution lists of chiggers (Trombiculidae and Leeuwenhoekiidae), of North American wild vertebrates north of Mexico." (2011).).

The mite is a good indication that the animal in question was indeed field collected and this could be part of the reason it isn't doing well. You should contact a veterinarian for emergency supportive care and to check for other parasites that could be causing issues for the lizard.

some comments

Ed

 

[KNOBTAIL]

The question is what is going to be done to resolve this matter !

 

[MrTPlush]

For now it seems they are not going to post on hete(logged in earlier this morning). They are responding via their website messaging system. I will post those messages if a resolution isn't being made.

 

[MrTPlush]

To update the situation it seems a resolution will be made. In talks Snakes at Sunset offered me two options to start. One was keeping the animal for a $40 refund(price of animal) or sending it back(at my expense...easily over $50) for a full $80 refund. I denied either option as I felt it was not right for me to pay shipping(either orginal or to send it back) when they were the ones who shipped an animal in unacceptable condition. After that they decided they would just refund me in full if it died or if it perked up nothing would done. Unfortunately today the animal did pass away so they have been provided pictures and I am just waiting on them to refund me the $80.

 

[dieselfan]

To update the situation it seems a resolution will be made. In talks Snakes at Sunset offered me two options to start. One was keeping the animal for a $40 refund(price of animal) or sending it back(at my expense...easily over $50) for a full $80 refund. I denied either option as I felt it was not right for me to pay shipping(either orginal or to send it back) when they were the ones who shipped an animal in unacceptable condition. After that they decided they would just refund me in full if it died or if it perked up nothing would done. Unfortunately today the animal did pass away so they have been provided pictures and I am just waiting on them to refund me the $80.

You had the animal for almost 7 days and knew it was sick when you got it. Let me guess... No trip to the vet? You want everyone to believe that Snakes at Sunset is disgusting yet you knowingly let an animal die while in you're possession. That is pretty disgusting.

I have bought from Snakes at Sunset and other similar online/retail shops and KNEW that when receiving WC animals that its up to me to immediately take them to the vet and start the quarantine process. Please correct me if I am wrong. The pics you provided do not look like a quarantine set up.

 

[MrTPlush]

You had the animal for almost 7 days and knew it was sick when you got it. Let me guess... No trip to the vet? You want everyone to believe that Snakes at Sunset is disgusting yet you knowingly let an animal die while in you're possession. That is pretty disgusting.

I have bought from Snakes at Sunset and other similar online/retail shops and KNEW that when receiving WC animals that its up to me to immediately take them to the vet and start the quarantine process. Please correct me if I am wrong. The pics you provided do not look like a quarantine set up.

I had the animal six days because Snakes at Sunset was posturing. When I was first concerned they told me it was likely due to the animal being cold and from shipment. So I waited as directed. When Monday(21st) rolled around I discovered the mites and mentioned how it still wasn't perking up. Snakes at Sunset said it looked dehydrated and after reading this thread questioned my hot spot temp.

I wanted the iguana to be returned back to them because they were so sure it was healthy. I was not happy with the animal I received and the fact it had impossible to miss mites on it(if one was examining it before shipping) showed they were careless before shipping the animal and very well could have missed other visual signs it was unhealthy. I wanted to get the animal back to them, but in no way was I going to be responsible for shipping on something that should have never been shipped in the first place.

My setup is perfectly fine and doesn't need to meet your specifications for a quarantine enclosure. Sand is a perfectly fine substrate for a new animal. It is easy to clean and easy to see consistency of the poop. It actually was very helpful in this situation as I knew how much it was moving around in its enclosure.

If you want to blame me for the animal dying you can go ahead and point the finger at Snakes at Sunset too.

 

[Lucille]

So I waited as directed. When Monday(21st) rolled around I discovered the mites

I was not happy with the animal I received and the fact it had impossible to miss mites on it(if one was examining it before shipping) showed they were careless before shipping the animal and very well could have missed other visual signs it was unhealthy.

I'm not getting on you, I'm just asking- if you missed the mites, etc. isn't it possible that they did also?
And this is just me- no matter what anyone else says if a critter is pooping clear liquid it is time to at least call and consult a vet.

 

[MrTPlush]

I'm not getting on you, I'm just asking- if you missed the mites, etc. isn't it possible that they did also?

The reason I did not see the mites originally is because when I opened the box the lizard was cold and I wanted to get him under a heat lamp ASAP. Which obviously in retrospect I should have given the iguana a quick glance over, but unfortunately I did not. I am not complaining that I had to disinfect and throw out the substrate because it is my fault it got put into the enclosure with the chiggers. However once I did inspect the lizard it was very noticable between the legs and Snakes at Sunset admittted they likely did not look over this iguana for chiggers before shipping. From talks it sounds like these iguanas just live with these chiggers on them and when it comes time to ship one out they remove them all.

Adding on I was very upfront with them that I didn't have much of any experience with lizards and that I have never gotten one shipped to me. They were very aware of my inexperience and I was going to go off the information they gave. I believe Snakes at Sunset was trying to downplay possible health issues too much early on and were really set on the iguana being 100% healthy. Even when they said they would refund me fully if it died they were going to attribute the death to stress...nothing else.

I also don't have experience with WC animals so I wasn't concerned early on when it seems I probably should have been. Someone with more experience could probably chime in, but it sounds like I should have been concerned with it's health from day one and not brushed it off as just being cold. Unfortunately a bit of a learning experience for me, but I don't think one should think Snakes at Sunset acted right in this situation. I don't think this animal was right to be shipped and I think they could have handled it better once I stated it wasn't doing well. If it was so obvious it needed a vet visit why was Snakes at Sunset telling me to bump up an already acceptable basking temp? Makes me believe they knew it needed a vet visit, but didn't want to tell me that.

 

[Lucille]

Adding on I was very upfront with them that I didn't have much of any experience with lizards and that I have never gotten one shipped to me.

My setup is perfectly fine and doesn't need to meet your specifications for a quarantine enclosure. Sand is a perfectly fine substrate for a new animal. It is easy to clean and easy to see consistency of the poop. It actually was very helpful in this situation as I knew how much it was moving around in its enclosure.

For someone with no experience you seem quite definite about your own abilities when it comes to your enclosure.
This is the second recent thread where a buyer has said something about their inexperience and their expectation that this creates responsibilities for the seller as far as education. I'm certainly in favor of helpful sellers, but buyers can research as well.
Going forward, I think that sellers might consider having a page of links at the bottom of their TOS page that reference critter care for the types of critters they sell. It would be the work of an afternoon to create such a list. In the TOS the seller could invite buyers to read the info in the links and then ask specific questions afterward.

 

[Lucille]

By the way, there is in fact controversy among expert keepers on the use of sand as a substrate.