Bad Guy BAD EXPERIENCE: Kicks Balls / Fred Kick / Kick Brothers / Reptile Addicts / Pets Plus

[srsb]

There is not one single thing in your post that is the responsibility of the Kicks and as someone said above, you neglected the animal to death. You can not say she was sick when you bought her - you barely looked at her yourself for several months after you got her. You housed her improperly. She was starving in your care - she had ample body weight when you got her, by your own description. When you finally did notice that something wasn't right, months later, you didn't take her to a vet but instead allowed her to continue to decline with your treatments being clearly inneffective, until she died.
Her death is 100% on you.
I know your knee-jerk reaction is going to be that you were "perfect" and nobody knows what they are talking about and we are all wrong. But maybe you should take some time to honestly reflect for yourself how you cared for this animal and see where you could have done better.

 

[JimM]

In our decades of experience, 95% of the pets we've purchased never needed to be quarantined in their own enclosure

Go to a reptile show and ask all the consumers if they first quarantine their new pets in a completely separate enclosue

we couldn't really care less about your opinions.

- All new animals need a quarentine period - especially wild caught animals and ones coming from any reptile show even if appearing healthy. Ask any herp vet ... but you don't seem to have a whole lot of respect for vets anyway.

New animals dont have to be in contact with your other animals to spread something. You know that after your 'decades of experience' ; you just arent set up with a quarentine room. You have to change that so this isnt repeated again down the road.

- You wanted opinions or you wouldn'r have posted here ... you just didn't want to hear what you need to hear.

- You learned a valuable lesson that could have been worse ... add this lesson to your decades of experience.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I purchased a big red female Nigerian Uromastyx from Kicks Balls. I bought her for $85.

Anyway, we never spend time in our Uromastyx room unless it's quick feeding and cleaning time, so we don't know if she was eating and pooping.

Good grief. I feel for your animals.

She lived with a male who is the same size, and a smaller female. They are perfectly healthy.

No quarantine, so it is likely they are no longer "perfectly healthy"

We noticed she was sleeping a lot in the last 2 months and thought she was just tired. Instead we eventually realized that she was weak. I lifted her up and noticed the bottom of her tail no longer had any fat to it. The base of her tail on top also lost its fat, and her body thickness toward her armpits also lost some size.

All that would've been caught sooner had you QTed & inspected your animals daily.

She died in August. The baths, nor the electrolytes with vitamins, nor the Grassland Grazer product helped at all. Her body shut down and she slowly lost the rest of her fat in every other part of her body.

Of course they didn't, she likely had a high parasite load and may have been bullied by the other two in the close underheated quarters.

I can't prove that since we never spent time in the reptile room other than to feed and clean them.

So now I am not only out the $85 I've spent on her, but I've lost time and additional money on products trying to save her, lost a pet , received heartbreak from her death, and most importantly: she was robbed of a long life that she could have lived!

Pets are cared for and looked at/loved on DAILY. What you had was an animal you looked at & allowed it to die without the proper care or empathy.
She was robbed of her long life buy you, not the Kicks (I would never buy from them, nor do I recommend them.) she died because she needed a vet visit right after purchase, she needed daily attention to make sure she was thriving in her new environment ... She got none of that in your care.

IF what the reptile store said is true, ALL of this is because of Kicks Balls' them to the public with their POOR business practices!!!

True to the point of their business practices. The burden lies squarely at your feet for her death.

We've done EVERYTHING PERFECTLY in the proper care of her, as her tank-mates were all healthy for years

No you didn't.

 

[DavidBeard]

The amount of delusion being display by Johns Orange Dragons is flabbergastingly large in this thread. I have no words other than: you have no business owning & neglecting animals. Find a different hobby.

 

[Mike Schultz]

So you purchased a wild caught animal, that appeared to be in good health to the Kick brothers. You must have thought so too, or you wouldn't have purchased it. And it must have been in good health at the time, because, as you stated, you know more than veterinarians about animals.

You immediately introduced it to current pets without any quarantine period. You say "lots of people dont quarantine" which is true, but lots of people also smoke cigarettes even though we can all agree it's pretty assuredly going to reduce quality and length of lives, so I dont really follow that logic much.

You said you did "EVERYTHING RIGHT" in its care (in all caps too!) yet you didn't give it the BASIC care that all wild caught imported animals should receive once they are in the care of their final owner- fecal tests, vet checkups, and usually some sort of parasite treatments. Oh, and usually basic monitoring.

You instead neglected it and ignored it for the next few months, freezing it at 68 degrees every night, subjecting it to so much stress from the cage mates it obviously did not get along with, that it would rarely eat. You somehow did not even notice anything was wrong until it had withered away to the point it is barely responsive, and then eventually died from your abuse and neglect 5? months later.

And you're blaming the Kick brothers for the slow, inhumane death that it received in your long island death chamber? You should put a sign over your reptile room perhaps, reminding you to occasionally look at the living creatures that you've taken on the responsibility of keeping alive. Maybe it can say "UROM-AUSCHWITZ"

 

[CovetedConstrictors]

Years ago at Daytona NRBE I bought a group of "mullucan boas" from the Kicks before I knew about how they did business. The boas weren't that large, so I asked if they were captive born and the person at the table said yes. Taking them at their word (stupid me), I bought 2.1 from the group. After getting them home and taking them out, I noticed the female appeared to be somewhat dehydrated and she had a scar near her vent. The males seemed to be in a bit better shape, but I kept them all in quarantine. They all fed on the first attempt and shortly after I was able to get a fecal done. All positive for hookworms. After a few more meals I treated them but noticed one of the males had developed some sort of lesion on his snout. I kept an eye on it and it steadily grew over a few days. I got him away from even the quarantine room and completely isolated. I brought up the possibility of SFD with the vet which they suspected as well. Antifungal treatments were done which seemed to help. Then he would shed and it would be gone, only to reoccur in a completely sterile environment. It eventually got so bad that he had to be put down because he was unable to eat anymore.
I still have the other two in the group are they are doing well and have grown well over the years. The difference in how they look now is night and day. That was the last time I'd ever do business with the Kicks. They're not honest. They had a booth at Daytona this year and I knew what to look for and you could see some sick, just plain sad animals being sold by them. Lesson learned on my part. Just my two cents.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Years ago at Daytona NRBE I bought a group of "mullucan boas" from the Kicks before I knew about how they did business. The boas weren't that large, so I asked if they were captive born and the person at the table said yes. Taking them at their word (stupid me), I bought 2.1 from the group. After getting them home and taking them out, I noticed the female appeared to be somewhat dehydrated and she had a scar near her vent. The males seemed to be in a bit better shape, but I kept them all in quarantine. They all fed on the first attempt and shortly after I was able to get a fecal done. All positive for hookworms. After a few more meals I treated them but noticed one of the males had developed some sort of lesion on his snout. I kept an eye on it and it steadily grew over a few days. I got him away from even the quarantine room and completely isolated. I brought up the possibility of SFD with the vet which they suspected as well. Antifungal treatments were done which seemed to help. Then he would shed and it would be gone, only to reoccur in a completely sterile environment. It eventually got so bad that he had to be put down because he was unable to eat anymore.
I still have the other two in the group are they are doing well and have grown well over the years. The difference in how they look now is night and day. That was the last time I'd ever do business with the Kicks. They're not honest. They had a booth at Daytona this year and I knew what to look for and you could see some sick, just plain sad animals being sold by them. Lesson learned on my part. Just my two cents.

I applaud you for doing what you could for the snake & making sure the other two survived.

 

[Morticia]

Anyone local to this area that goes in their store knows what's up with them. They have a long history of doing this. They get by on volume alone, they always buy up multiple tables at our local shows.
I don't know why they don't hold themselves to higher standard because they have the experience and the access to provide to our area things other stores don't even come near. But their store front has been shut down twice for neglect, its always disgusting in there. They have the possibility to be an amazing business but their cages are always filthy and they really do prey on unsuspecting people at shows with their huge tables of hundreds of WC animals stacked on top of each other 3, 4, 5 cups high.
I do not even look at their tables at shows because I don't want an animal that's going to turn around and die and they're going to say "oh well."

 

[Mike Schultz]

Anyone local to this area that goes in their store knows what's up with them. They have a long history of doing this. They get by on volume alone, they always buy up multiple tables at our local shows.
I don't know why they don't hold themselves to higher standard because they have the experience and the access to provide to our area things other stores don't even come near. But their store front has been shut down twice for neglect, its always disgusting in there. They have the possibility to be an amazing business but their cages are always filthy and they really do prey on unsuspecting people at shows with their huge tables of hundreds of WC animals stacked on top of each other 3, 4, 5 cups high.
I do not even look at their tables at shows because I don't want an animal that's going to turn around and die and they're going to say "oh well."

I'm guessing you didn't really read much of the thread yet? regardless of past incidents, I cannot imagine how the kicks can be held responsible in this situation....

 

[Phil Bradley]

The Kicks can, and should, be held responsible because THEY KNOWINGLY SELL AND/OR FLIP ANIMALS IN ABSOLUTELY CRAPPY CONDITION with no apparent ill affects to their bottom line as the hobby community continues to support them (at least to the degree that they are still in business). The OP certainly has to take a hard look at how they intake, quarantine, and insure health and welfare for their captives but somehow creating equivalency in responsibility is mind boggling (but does seem to be en vogue for the country currently).

 

[Mike Schultz]

The Kicks can, and should, be held responsible because THEY KNOWINGLY SELL AND/OR FLIP ANIMALS IN ABSOLUTELY CRAPPY CONDITION with no apparent ill affects to their bottom line as the hobby community continues to support them (at least to the degree that they are still in business). The OP certainly has to take a hard look at how they intake, quarantine, and insure health and welfare for their captives but somehow creating equivalency in responsibility is mind boggling (but does seem to be en vogue for the country currently).

The animal was in great shape when purchased. 6 months later it was emaciated and on death's door. Did the kicks use their psychic screw-you-beams to telepathically compel this idiot to neglect their lizard for that long?

 

[Morticia]

I'm guessing you didn't really read much of the thread yet? regardless of past incidents, I cannot imagine how the kicks can be held responsible in this situation....

This person's negligence aside, it isn't new territory for them.

 

[Skyefoxx]

While I believe it should be noted that the animal was likely flipped and the time wasn't taken to ensure it was healthy before it was sold, I also believe blaming them in this case just because 'it isn't new territory for them' doesn't address the major problems in this thread. The animal would have at least had a fighting chance if it were cared for properly. 6 months after it was sold is a really long reach to blame them for her death especially since it doesn't appear that we know what illness the animal had and cannot confirm it was an underlying condition she had when she was purchased.

Did the kicks use their psychic screw-you-beams to telepathically compel this idiot to neglect their lizard for that long?

<- Also this seriously made my afternoon, hah!!

 

[Snake-Queen]

This person's negligence aside, it isn't new territory for them.

Regardless, the OP dropped the ball on this one. If they had been better keepers, they would've noticed the decline sooner and been able address the cause(s). Had they caught the decline sooner, I would be on board for them getting a refund or some other reparations.

Six months is a long time to have an animal in your care, have it die and expect the seller to do something; even degenerate sellers like the Kicks.

There is several points against the buyer in this case:
1. Lack of quarantine.
2. Improper housing.
3. Inattention to animals in their care.
4. The time that passed before a problem was noticed.
5. Lack of a vet visit.
6. The fact that it died after six months in their care.

 

[Mike Schultz]

Regardless, the OP dropped the ball on this one. If they had been better keepers, they would've noticed the decline sooner and been able address the cause(s). Had they caught the decline sooner, I would be on board for them getting a refund or some other reparations.
.

I'm willing to bet there wouldn't have been a decline in the first place had proper basic import care guidelines been followed

 

[Phil Bradley]

I completely agree that the OP needs to focus on drastically upgrading their husbandry practices however I still don't get why the near lack of ANY meaningful husbandry and/or preventative medicine on the part of the seller for his flipped WC animals is given a pass by many of you? I find both parties to be at fault however only one of them will continue to be selling sh1t animals in volume.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I completely agree that the OP needs to focus on drastically upgrading their husbandry practices however I still don't get why the near lack of ANY meaningful husbandry and/or preventative medicine on the part of the seller for his flipped WC animals is given a pass by many of you? I find both parties to be at fault however only one of them will continue to be selling s*** animals in volume.

There is a problem with your statement, the animal was fat and healthy when purchased. Whether or not the Kicks treated the animal is immaterial to this case, because the buyer didn't follow through with basic imported animal care. When a known import is purchased, you should always have a vet check it and do a fecal, that was not done in this case. There is no proof that the Kicks sold a sick animal or proof as to the cause of death. It could have starved to death because the other 2 uros were bullying it and not allowing it to eat.

As much as I dislike the Kicks and their practices, (I pains me to say this) the death of the uros was not their fault. Yes, they are flipper who who will continue to sell as long as there is buyers.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I'm willing to bet there wouldn't have been a decline in the first place had proper basic import care guidelines been followed

I agree.

 

[bcr229]

I completely agree that the OP needs to focus on drastically upgrading their husbandry practices however I still don't get why the near lack of ANY meaningful husbandry and/or preventative medicine on the part of the seller for his flipped WC animals is given a pass by many of you? I find both parties to be at fault however only one of them will continue to be selling sh1t animals in volume.

I don't give either a pass. The OP by his own admission is not a newbie to the hobby and claims to have decades of experience, yet hasn't learned basic concepts like quarantine, not co-habbing animals, researching sellers before purchasing an animal, and understanding industry practices for buying and selling the species he does keep. Even if the OP didn't know about the BOI a simple Google search on the Kicks shows they should be avoided.

If the OP is still reading this thread here's some advice: most sellers of WC critters do not treat for internal parasites. Always ask if an animal is WC versus CBB. If the animal is freshly WC then understand that you are buying a vet bill, which is why they cost so much less than CB or long-term captive critters.

 

[CovetedConstrictors]

Agreed, however they did misrepresent WC animals as CBB in their sale to me at Daytona. I specifically asked. I have no problem treating animals, WC or otherwise but it was dishonest and if they've done it with me I can't imagine it's an isolated case.