C
Chris@TSE
Guest
I'm deeply disturbed and disappointed by those statements.......
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
-
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
=====================
Posted 08/15/2025
=====================
Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
=====================
Addendum: 01/10/2026
=====================
Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Terri Sommella Fire and Ice Dragons -- Nightmare
- Thread starter jnewsome26
- Start date
cthulhu77
New member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2004
- Messages
- 861
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 62
- Location
- welding in the Beaverworks...
PraiseEinstein said:
Unfortunately, it will be YOUR name that people remember...not Bruce's!
Throwing out odd bits of quotation that are irrevelant can be quite annoying...glad to see you distance yourself as much as possible !
greg
dragonlover
New member
I think that is why sunstardragons went undergound and took their website offline. The lady seemed to really want to look like a top breeder by her close association with Terri, and then found out that Terri is not so popular these days. Terri was all she could talk about. Sadly, all the care information on her website was incorrect information that she learned straight from Terri! How can Terri keep changing her info, her policies,her morales, on a sale by sale basis, and still be so highly recognized? I am sure that she spends alot of money to get her name spread around as much as possible....I think that sunstar has only been breeding less than a year. The show I saw Cairo at she actually said that Terri told her it was the only Citrus in the states when she bought it as her first beardie, and that she would have babies to sell such as none other at the shows because no one else had citrus! I hated to see it, she seemed really nice but she was took for $1,000.00 for a really ordinary dragon with fairly plain offspring, and the fact that Terri claimed the genetic coloration as her own invention was ludicrious...
re Bruce at Sunshine dragons
I am going to be a first-time beardie owner soon. I have been doing research for 6 months and I won't own my beardie until I feel I have a solid base of knowledge about them.
I am posting because the first site I found (6 months ago) was Fire and Ice. The pictures looked amazing! Then I continued my research. Over time, I became skeptical of Terri and my initial doubts arizing from a phone conversation with her have only been magnified by what I have read. I will not buy from Terri for many reasons, my mind is made up.
I recently communicated with Bruce about a female breeder he acquired because I am interested in one of her offspring. After reading his post, I am extremely reluctant to buy from him.
I think I will probably not buy from Sunshine Dragons now (as I had planned) because of his post.
Does anyone have information about Sunshine Dragons that may change my mind? Who is Bruce and does Lauren work for him or vice versa?
Thanks in advance for all feedback.
(By the way, I am still considering Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den)
Cashew
I am going to be a first-time beardie owner soon. I have been doing research for 6 months and I won't own my beardie until I feel I have a solid base of knowledge about them.
I am posting because the first site I found (6 months ago) was Fire and Ice. The pictures looked amazing! Then I continued my research. Over time, I became skeptical of Terri and my initial doubts arizing from a phone conversation with her have only been magnified by what I have read. I will not buy from Terri for many reasons, my mind is made up.
I recently communicated with Bruce about a female breeder he acquired because I am interested in one of her offspring. After reading his post, I am extremely reluctant to buy from him.
I think I will probably not buy from Sunshine Dragons now (as I had planned) because of his post.
Does anyone have information about Sunshine Dragons that may change my mind? Who is Bruce and does Lauren work for him or vice versa?
Thanks in advance for all feedback.
(By the way, I am still considering Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den)
Cashew
Sunshinedragons
New member
I Guess I set myself up for this
This is Bruce,
I am the owner, of SunshineDragons. Lauren helps to run and oversee the operation and makes decisions. She is the Salt of the earth. In signing the first thread ever on Fauna, I did not realize her name would come up under the company name. Stone me, I made a mistake again.
We made it a company policy never to post on BOI as for how things can get twisted, or mistinterpreted, and end up going on forever, in a defensive situation like this one now has.
I Broke policy without consulting the team that actually runs the Business. I don't clam to be perfect, or the most knowelgeabe, or the best. We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety.
Feel free to write and we will show you 100"s of comments, from customers, Breedrs, or Vendors in just the one year we have gone public out of th 10 we have been breeding.
We have been private Breeders for 10 years, breedeing and selling selected high grade, quality Dragons. Most important to us was the health of the Dragon, nevertheless our selection of morphs, is as good if not better than anyones. Last year we went public when we obtained the core of some of Chris Allens key Breeders Scar, Flame etc.
We have made mistakes, yet have always made every atempt to correct them, and make every transaction as stress, and anxiety Free as possible. In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to.
It amazes me, the lashing people recieve for not speaking up, or when they do speak up. Damned if you do, Damed if you don't. I guess if you don't march to the same beat, or have a different opinion of the crowds, you become a target.
Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den.Dragons by Nature, Mystical_Dragons are Quality Breeders we would reccomen them to anyone. Many of them are dealers for our cages, and we have a good relationship with them. We even list some on our links. Imagine that, listing some of the competition.
My comments on this Thread were not a judgement of what was done, and whether it was right or not. My comment is on the Bandwagon approach from one sided information, or possible half truths. When you respond, or become defensive things end up just perpetuating themselves regardless of the "Truth" just as now happened.
There Was a mention of us in this Thread about an issue by Blckcat, that had little to do with this issue. Yet even what was said was not entirely accurate.
After Blckcat had a Concern not only did we make the below offer, we sent her to a Breeder with high Integrity to explain the situation so she didn't think we were just "Snowing " her -Pun. read on, and then read back as to what was printed by the individual in her thread.
Blckcat... E-mail to us, and another Breeder.
"..wanted to let you know the snow arrived safe and sound. He's a lot larger then I expected, and I am very pleased. I'll keep you updated on how his coloring develops. I'm also looking into your caging.
Thanks,
Stef "
"..Bruce is a great guy! I do not even hint at a refund when I voiced my
concern about this dragon to him and he automatically offered it to me. I
had told him that I did not feel that was fair to him as the seller to give
me a full refund and allow me to keep my dragon. In his last email to me, he insisted that is the right thing to do.
Stef
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree, Bruce is a great guy. He's
done something in the bearded dragon "world" that others have not done and
has really stood out as a top notch breeder and someone I consider a
personal friend... and that's important to me in a reptile trade with a lot
of questionable people. Bruce is one of the handful of good people out
there that I consider friends and do business with.
Brandon
"...honestly, if more people had your morals and ethics, the reptile trade would be a lot better place to work and deal in. It's nice to know there are breeders out there that care a lot.
In a message dated 7/13/2004 3:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] write.."
"..Bruce,
……….No problem… there will be many more to come… we feel very comfortable sending our customers to you for their bearded dragons. We have no doubt they will be well treated.
Warm Regards,
Andy
Director Of Internet Services
Big Apple Herpetological, Inc."
"......I think you did something wonderful for a family that may need some additional outlet .......I really appreciate your quick response to my question ......
P.S always appreciate that extra mile you go in answering my questions...gives me lots of info. so I don't have to bother you to ask again.
Teresa. (www.tbkdragons.com).."
"..… I’m impressed with the amount of time
you take to help people. That is very unusual in this business and I suppose in many others too.
Warm Regards,..."
"... thank you for you helpfull service. i have to say your one of the best companies i've dealt with before.
thank you, matt.."
"... I have been impressed the way you run it and your standards and that's something you don't see really... . taught me how to do things the right way and the wrong way. You guys do things the right way and i've heard a lot of good things and I think you guys are great for the reptile industry ………"
"...Bruce,
WOW!!!!!! That is real honorable of you. …& SunshineDragons. …………. Thank you so much, I'd be glad to take you up on your offer, I would love to do business with you in the future.
I really appreciate the efforts you've made to help correct this situation. ………..
Thank you once again for bring closure to this situation,
Khando Freeman"
“
"…..FYI. Lot’s of herper do refer and talk about Sunshine Dragons and Cages. ….”
Squinn
Reptile Magazine “
".....I HAVE ACTUALY HEARD ABOUT YOUR REP...FROM A FRIEND, WHEN I TOLD HIM WHERE THIS MALE WAS COMING FROM, . I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT HIM, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CORESPONADANCE IMENSLY, AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE MY TRUST WHERE YOU COULD SELL ME THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, I APRECIATE YOU DEAMING A REPONSABLE PERSON AND WORTHEY OF YOUR GIFT, I FEEL I AM GETTING A GIFT...I CANT EXPLAIN....."
"...Bobby adores the dragons! He couldn't have had a better birthday present. We took them to the vet and the vet said that they were both in very good condition. The vet also confirmed everything that you said with regard to their care. ......... We will continue to follow your care guidelines and call you as additional questions arise (which I'm sure will be many).
Thank you...we are so grateful.
Cynthia"
Bruce Kalish
[email protected]
If you would like to see 100's more please write. We pride ourselves on our service, honesty, and Integrity..
Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again. Therefore say what you want, believe what you may, listen to the rumor mills, and there are other Great Breeders to choose from. We don't expect everyone to agree with us, or buy from us. We love what we do. It is not a business to us, yet a hobby. We Don't inbreed, or linebreed, and have over 50 Pets, that we selectively breed so as to not overbreed any, and burn them out.
HEART
It is only with the heart
that one can see rightly;
what is essential
is invisible to the eye.
- Antoine De Saint-Exupery
Have a little compassion for everyone.
This is Bruce,
I am the owner, of SunshineDragons. Lauren helps to run and oversee the operation and makes decisions. She is the Salt of the earth. In signing the first thread ever on Fauna, I did not realize her name would come up under the company name. Stone me, I made a mistake again.
We made it a company policy never to post on BOI as for how things can get twisted, or mistinterpreted, and end up going on forever, in a defensive situation like this one now has.
I Broke policy without consulting the team that actually runs the Business. I don't clam to be perfect, or the most knowelgeabe, or the best. We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety.
Feel free to write and we will show you 100"s of comments, from customers, Breedrs, or Vendors in just the one year we have gone public out of th 10 we have been breeding.
We have been private Breeders for 10 years, breedeing and selling selected high grade, quality Dragons. Most important to us was the health of the Dragon, nevertheless our selection of morphs, is as good if not better than anyones. Last year we went public when we obtained the core of some of Chris Allens key Breeders Scar, Flame etc.
We have made mistakes, yet have always made every atempt to correct them, and make every transaction as stress, and anxiety Free as possible. In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to.
It amazes me, the lashing people recieve for not speaking up, or when they do speak up. Damned if you do, Damed if you don't. I guess if you don't march to the same beat, or have a different opinion of the crowds, you become a target.
Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den.Dragons by Nature, Mystical_Dragons are Quality Breeders we would reccomen them to anyone. Many of them are dealers for our cages, and we have a good relationship with them. We even list some on our links. Imagine that, listing some of the competition.
My comments on this Thread were not a judgement of what was done, and whether it was right or not. My comment is on the Bandwagon approach from one sided information, or possible half truths. When you respond, or become defensive things end up just perpetuating themselves regardless of the "Truth" just as now happened.
There Was a mention of us in this Thread about an issue by Blckcat, that had little to do with this issue. Yet even what was said was not entirely accurate.
After Blckcat had a Concern not only did we make the below offer, we sent her to a Breeder with high Integrity to explain the situation so she didn't think we were just "Snowing " her -Pun. read on, and then read back as to what was printed by the individual in her thread.
Blckcat... E-mail to us, and another Breeder.
"..wanted to let you know the snow arrived safe and sound. He's a lot larger then I expected, and I am very pleased. I'll keep you updated on how his coloring develops. I'm also looking into your caging.
Thanks,
Stef "
"..Bruce is a great guy! I do not even hint at a refund when I voiced my
concern about this dragon to him and he automatically offered it to me. I
had told him that I did not feel that was fair to him as the seller to give
me a full refund and allow me to keep my dragon. In his last email to me, he insisted that is the right thing to do.
Stef
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree, Bruce is a great guy. He's
done something in the bearded dragon "world" that others have not done and
has really stood out as a top notch breeder and someone I consider a
personal friend... and that's important to me in a reptile trade with a lot
of questionable people. Bruce is one of the handful of good people out
there that I consider friends and do business with.
Brandon
"...honestly, if more people had your morals and ethics, the reptile trade would be a lot better place to work and deal in. It's nice to know there are breeders out there that care a lot.
In a message dated 7/13/2004 3:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] write.."
"..Bruce,
……….No problem… there will be many more to come… we feel very comfortable sending our customers to you for their bearded dragons. We have no doubt they will be well treated.
Warm Regards,
Andy
Director Of Internet Services
Big Apple Herpetological, Inc."
"......I think you did something wonderful for a family that may need some additional outlet .......I really appreciate your quick response to my question ......
P.S always appreciate that extra mile you go in answering my questions...gives me lots of info. so I don't have to bother you to ask again.
Teresa. (www.tbkdragons.com).."
"..… I’m impressed with the amount of time
you take to help people. That is very unusual in this business and I suppose in many others too.
Warm Regards,..."
"... thank you for you helpfull service. i have to say your one of the best companies i've dealt with before.
thank you, matt.."
"... I have been impressed the way you run it and your standards and that's something you don't see really... . taught me how to do things the right way and the wrong way. You guys do things the right way and i've heard a lot of good things and I think you guys are great for the reptile industry ………"
"...Bruce,
WOW!!!!!! That is real honorable of you. …& SunshineDragons. …………. Thank you so much, I'd be glad to take you up on your offer, I would love to do business with you in the future.
I really appreciate the efforts you've made to help correct this situation. ………..
Thank you once again for bring closure to this situation,
Khando Freeman"
“
"…..FYI. Lot’s of herper do refer and talk about Sunshine Dragons and Cages. ….”
Squinn
Reptile Magazine “
".....I HAVE ACTUALY HEARD ABOUT YOUR REP...FROM A FRIEND, WHEN I TOLD HIM WHERE THIS MALE WAS COMING FROM, . I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT HIM, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CORESPONADANCE IMENSLY, AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE MY TRUST WHERE YOU COULD SELL ME THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, I APRECIATE YOU DEAMING A REPONSABLE PERSON AND WORTHEY OF YOUR GIFT, I FEEL I AM GETTING A GIFT...I CANT EXPLAIN....."
"...Bobby adores the dragons! He couldn't have had a better birthday present. We took them to the vet and the vet said that they were both in very good condition. The vet also confirmed everything that you said with regard to their care. ......... We will continue to follow your care guidelines and call you as additional questions arise (which I'm sure will be many).
Thank you...we are so grateful.
Cynthia"
Bruce Kalish
[email protected]
If you would like to see 100's more please write. We pride ourselves on our service, honesty, and Integrity..
Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again. Therefore say what you want, believe what you may, listen to the rumor mills, and there are other Great Breeders to choose from. We don't expect everyone to agree with us, or buy from us. We love what we do. It is not a business to us, yet a hobby. We Don't inbreed, or linebreed, and have over 50 Pets, that we selectively breed so as to not overbreed any, and burn them out.
HEART
It is only with the heart
that one can see rightly;
what is essential
is invisible to the eye.
- Antoine De Saint-Exupery
Have a little compassion for everyone.
TripleMoonsExotic
New member
Yes, you did offer me full refund on Nova. I do not recall whether or not I had posted that in this thread (and I'm not about to dig through 45 pages to find it - yuck!). I did not accept it, I felt that would be morally wrong of me. Neither was I willing to give him up for another.
What I do not accept is that I received a dragon that was not as pictured on your site. You showed pure white snows as representives for the hatchlings you had for sale. Nova, to this day, is as tan as ever. The little bugger is eatting his veggies better, and has a WONDERFUL personality. His case of pin worms has been treated, and though his stress marks are gone...His color hasn't changed...
I posted in comparison of the "Live and Learn" issue of not receiving a photo before purchase. Which is how Fire and Ice operates. Something I have learned from, and will never do again. I have noticed since my purchase, you do post pictures of your available dragons.
I, by the way, did end up purchasing a gorgeous Orange Snow from Brandon...Whom has the most wonderful coloring when she's half the size of Nova. I was very impressed with her. Nova has the better personality of the two, but she is very tiny and needs to get used to the idea of me not being interested in eatting her.
What I do not accept is that I received a dragon that was not as pictured on your site. You showed pure white snows as representives for the hatchlings you had for sale. Nova, to this day, is as tan as ever. The little bugger is eatting his veggies better, and has a WONDERFUL personality. His case of pin worms has been treated, and though his stress marks are gone...His color hasn't changed...
I posted in comparison of the "Live and Learn" issue of not receiving a photo before purchase. Which is how Fire and Ice operates. Something I have learned from, and will never do again. I have noticed since my purchase, you do post pictures of your available dragons.
I, by the way, did end up purchasing a gorgeous Orange Snow from Brandon...Whom has the most wonderful coloring when she's half the size of Nova. I was very impressed with her. Nova has the better personality of the two, but she is very tiny and needs to get used to the idea of me not being interested in eatting her.
Bruce,
Thank you for your reply - I admire you for responding. I was very concerned when I read your post because I understood it to be in defense of Terri and her practices. I understand that not everything I read is true and that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that people make mistakes, and in my opinion, attempting to correct them is what is important.
I have read many posts on many different boards and the only consistently negative posts regarding a breeder relate to Fire and Ice and Terri. I'm not sure what has happened with the particular animals involved, but I am concerned about the lack of positive posts to support her and the lack of effort on her part to remedy the numerous situations I have read about. Maybe she has tried to remedy them and I don't know about it, but I have never seen posts from her with her explanation.
I have also read several posts by breeders that many others seem to think highly of, and these posts explain why the information on Terri's site is/was incorrect and potentially harmful to beardies.
I am further troubled by Terri's claims to be a breeder with over 15 years of experience and claims of creating the Citrus line when it appears that she has been breeding for maybe 3 years and she is taking credit for lines that others have created.
My concerns have been greatly alleviated by your response and I am going to look into Pyro's babies again now. I hope you understand my concerns and the panic I had when reading your post on this particular thread. I am new the bearded dragon world and this is a very big committment for me. I just want to make sure I am choosing a great breeder to buy from, and with so many reputable breeders, I don't want to risk buying from a breeder that I'm not sure of.
Thank you again, and sorry for the panic and the long response.
Cashew (Mischa Hepner in Arizona)
Thank you for your reply - I admire you for responding. I was very concerned when I read your post because I understood it to be in defense of Terri and her practices. I understand that not everything I read is true and that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that people make mistakes, and in my opinion, attempting to correct them is what is important.
I have read many posts on many different boards and the only consistently negative posts regarding a breeder relate to Fire and Ice and Terri. I'm not sure what has happened with the particular animals involved, but I am concerned about the lack of positive posts to support her and the lack of effort on her part to remedy the numerous situations I have read about. Maybe she has tried to remedy them and I don't know about it, but I have never seen posts from her with her explanation.
I have also read several posts by breeders that many others seem to think highly of, and these posts explain why the information on Terri's site is/was incorrect and potentially harmful to beardies.
I am further troubled by Terri's claims to be a breeder with over 15 years of experience and claims of creating the Citrus line when it appears that she has been breeding for maybe 3 years and she is taking credit for lines that others have created.
My concerns have been greatly alleviated by your response and I am going to look into Pyro's babies again now. I hope you understand my concerns and the panic I had when reading your post on this particular thread. I am new the bearded dragon world and this is a very big committment for me. I just want to make sure I am choosing a great breeder to buy from, and with so many reputable breeders, I don't want to risk buying from a breeder that I'm not sure of.
Thank you again, and sorry for the panic and the long response.
Cashew (Mischa Hepner in Arizona)
Sunshinedragons
New member
Arrogance, and self righteousness isn't befitting of anyone
I Guess I set myself up for this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is Bruce,
I am the owner, of SunshineDragons. Lauren helps to run and oversee the operation and makes decisions. She is the Salt of the earth. In signing the first thread ever on Fauna, I did not realize her name would come up under the company name. Stone me, I made a mistake again.
We made it a company policy never to post on BOI as for how things can get twisted, or mistinterpreted, and end up going on forever, in a defensive situation like this one now has.
I Broke policy without consulting the team that actually runs the Business. I don't clam to be perfect, or the most knowelgeabe, or the best. We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety.
Feel free to write and we will show you 100"s of comments, from customers, Breedrs, or Vendors in just the one year we have gone public out of th 10 we have been breeding.
We have been private Breeders for 10 years, breedeing and selling selected high grade, quality Dragons. Most important to us was the health of the Dragon, nevertheless our selection of morphs, is as good if not better than anyones. Last year we went public when we obtained the core of some of Chris Allens key Breeders Scar, Flame etc.
We have made mistakes, yet have always made every atempt to correct them, and make every transaction as stress, and anxiety Free as possible. In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to.
It amazes me, the lashing people recieve for not speaking up, or when they do speak up. Damned if you do, Damed if you don't. I guess if you don't march to the same beat, or have a different opinion of the crowds, you become a target.
Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den.Dragons by Nature, Mystical_Dragons are Quality Breeders we would reccomen them to anyone. Many of them are dealers for our cages, and we have a good relationship with them. We even list some on our links. Imagine that, listing some of the competition.
My comments on this Thread were not a judgement of what was done, and whether it was right or not. My comment is on the Bandwagon approach from one sided information, or possible half truths. When you respond, or become defensive things end up just perpetuating themselves regardless of the "Truth" just as now happened.
There Was a mention of us in this Thread about an issue by Blckcat, that had little to do with this issue. Yet even what was said was not entirely accurate.
After Blckcat had a Concern not only did we make the below offer, we sent her to a Breeder with high Integrity to explain the situation so she didn't think we were just "Snowing " her -Pun. read on, and then read back as to what was printed by the individual in her thread.
Blckcat... E-mail to us, and another Breeder.
"..wanted to let you know the snow arrived safe and sound. He's a lot larger then I expected, and I am very pleased. I'll keep you updated on how his coloring develops. I'm also looking into your caging.
Thanks,
Stef "
"..Bruce is a great guy! I do not even hint at a refund when I voiced my
concern about this dragon to him and he automatically offered it to me. I
had told him that I did not feel that was fair to him as the seller to give
me a full refund and allow me to keep my dragon. In his last email to me, he insisted that is the right thing to do.
Stef
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree, Bruce is a great guy. He's
done something in the bearded dragon "world" that others have not done and
has really stood out as a top notch breeder and someone I consider a
personal friend... and that's important to me in a reptile trade with a lot
of questionable people. Bruce is one of the handful of good people out
there that I consider friends and do business with.
Brandon
"...honestly, if more people had your morals and ethics, the reptile trade would be a lot better place to work and deal in. It's nice to know there are breeders out there that care a lot.
In a message dated 7/13/2004 3:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] write.."
"..Bruce,
……….No problem… there will be many more to come… we feel very comfortable sending our customers to you for their bearded dragons. We have no doubt they will be well treated.
Warm Regards,
Andy
Director Of Internet Services
Big Apple Herpetological, Inc."
"......I think you did something wonderful for a family that may need some additional outlet .......I really appreciate your quick response to my question ......
P.S always appreciate that extra mile you go in answering my questions...gives me lots of info. so I don't have to bother you to ask again.
Teresa. (www.tbkdragons.com).."
"..… I’m impressed with the amount of time
you take to help people. That is very unusual in this business and I suppose in many others too.
Warm Regards,..."
"... thank you for you helpfull service. i have to say your one of the best companies i've dealt with before.
thank you, matt.."
"... I have been impressed the way you run it and your standards and that's something you don't see really... . taught me how to do things the right way and the wrong way. You guys do things the right way and i've heard a lot of good things and I think you guys are great for the reptile industry ………"
"...Bruce,
WOW!!!!!! That is real honorable of you. …& SunshineDragons. …………. Thank you so much, I'd be glad to take you up on your offer, I would love to do business with you in the future.
I really appreciate the efforts you've made to help correct this situation. ………..
Thank you once again for bring closure to this situation,
Khando Freeman"
“
"…..FYI. Lot’s of herper do refer and talk about Sunshine Dragons and Cages. ….”
Squinn
Reptile Magazine “
".....I HAVE ACTUALY HEARD ABOUT YOUR REP...FROM A FRIEND, WHEN I TOLD HIM WHERE THIS MALE WAS COMING FROM, . I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT HIM, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CORESPONADANCE IMENSLY, AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE MY TRUST WHERE YOU COULD SELL ME THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, I APRECIATE YOU DEAMING A REPONSABLE PERSON AND WORTHEY OF YOUR GIFT, I FEEL I AM GETTING A GIFT...I CANT EXPLAIN....."
"...Bobby adores the dragons! He couldn't have had a better birthday present. We took them to the vet and the vet said that they were both in very good condition. The vet also confirmed everything that you said with regard to their care. ......... We will continue to follow your care guidelines and call you as additional questions arise (which I'm sure will be many).
Thank you...we are so grateful.
Cynthia"
Bruce Kalish
[email protected]
If you would like to see 100's more please write. We pride ourselves on our service, honesty, and Integrity..
Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again. Therefore say what you want, believe what you may, listen to the rumor mills, and there are other Great Breeders to choose from. We don't expect everyone to agree with us, or buy from us. We love what we do. It is not a business to us, yet a hobby. We Don't inbreed, or linebreed, and have over 50 Pets, that we selectively breed so as to not overbreed any, and burn them out.
HEART
It is only with the heart
that one can see rightly;
what is essential
is invisible to the eye.
- Antoine De Saint-Exupery
Have a little compassion for everyone
cthulhu77 said:
I Guess I set myself up for this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is Bruce,
I am the owner, of SunshineDragons. Lauren helps to run and oversee the operation and makes decisions. She is the Salt of the earth. In signing the first thread ever on Fauna, I did not realize her name would come up under the company name. Stone me, I made a mistake again.
We made it a company policy never to post on BOI as for how things can get twisted, or mistinterpreted, and end up going on forever, in a defensive situation like this one now has.
I Broke policy without consulting the team that actually runs the Business. I don't clam to be perfect, or the most knowelgeabe, or the best. We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety.
Feel free to write and we will show you 100"s of comments, from customers, Breedrs, or Vendors in just the one year we have gone public out of th 10 we have been breeding.
We have been private Breeders for 10 years, breedeing and selling selected high grade, quality Dragons. Most important to us was the health of the Dragon, nevertheless our selection of morphs, is as good if not better than anyones. Last year we went public when we obtained the core of some of Chris Allens key Breeders Scar, Flame etc.
We have made mistakes, yet have always made every atempt to correct them, and make every transaction as stress, and anxiety Free as possible. In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to.
It amazes me, the lashing people recieve for not speaking up, or when they do speak up. Damned if you do, Damed if you don't. I guess if you don't march to the same beat, or have a different opinion of the crowds, you become a target.
Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den.Dragons by Nature, Mystical_Dragons are Quality Breeders we would reccomen them to anyone. Many of them are dealers for our cages, and we have a good relationship with them. We even list some on our links. Imagine that, listing some of the competition.
My comments on this Thread were not a judgement of what was done, and whether it was right or not. My comment is on the Bandwagon approach from one sided information, or possible half truths. When you respond, or become defensive things end up just perpetuating themselves regardless of the "Truth" just as now happened.
There Was a mention of us in this Thread about an issue by Blckcat, that had little to do with this issue. Yet even what was said was not entirely accurate.
After Blckcat had a Concern not only did we make the below offer, we sent her to a Breeder with high Integrity to explain the situation so she didn't think we were just "Snowing " her -Pun. read on, and then read back as to what was printed by the individual in her thread.
Blckcat... E-mail to us, and another Breeder.
"..wanted to let you know the snow arrived safe and sound. He's a lot larger then I expected, and I am very pleased. I'll keep you updated on how his coloring develops. I'm also looking into your caging.
Thanks,
Stef "
"..Bruce is a great guy! I do not even hint at a refund when I voiced my
concern about this dragon to him and he automatically offered it to me. I
had told him that I did not feel that was fair to him as the seller to give
me a full refund and allow me to keep my dragon. In his last email to me, he insisted that is the right thing to do.
Stef
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree, Bruce is a great guy. He's
done something in the bearded dragon "world" that others have not done and
has really stood out as a top notch breeder and someone I consider a
personal friend... and that's important to me in a reptile trade with a lot
of questionable people. Bruce is one of the handful of good people out
there that I consider friends and do business with.
Brandon
"...honestly, if more people had your morals and ethics, the reptile trade would be a lot better place to work and deal in. It's nice to know there are breeders out there that care a lot.
In a message dated 7/13/2004 3:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] write.."
"..Bruce,
……….No problem… there will be many more to come… we feel very comfortable sending our customers to you for their bearded dragons. We have no doubt they will be well treated.
Warm Regards,
Andy
Director Of Internet Services
Big Apple Herpetological, Inc."
"......I think you did something wonderful for a family that may need some additional outlet .......I really appreciate your quick response to my question ......
P.S always appreciate that extra mile you go in answering my questions...gives me lots of info. so I don't have to bother you to ask again.
Teresa. (www.tbkdragons.com).."
"..… I’m impressed with the amount of time
you take to help people. That is very unusual in this business and I suppose in many others too.
Warm Regards,..."
"... thank you for you helpfull service. i have to say your one of the best companies i've dealt with before.
thank you, matt.."
"... I have been impressed the way you run it and your standards and that's something you don't see really... . taught me how to do things the right way and the wrong way. You guys do things the right way and i've heard a lot of good things and I think you guys are great for the reptile industry ………"
"...Bruce,
WOW!!!!!! That is real honorable of you. …& SunshineDragons. …………. Thank you so much, I'd be glad to take you up on your offer, I would love to do business with you in the future.
I really appreciate the efforts you've made to help correct this situation. ………..
Thank you once again for bring closure to this situation,
Khando Freeman"
“
"…..FYI. Lot’s of herper do refer and talk about Sunshine Dragons and Cages. ….”
Squinn
Reptile Magazine “
".....I HAVE ACTUALY HEARD ABOUT YOUR REP...FROM A FRIEND, WHEN I TOLD HIM WHERE THIS MALE WAS COMING FROM, . I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT HIM, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CORESPONADANCE IMENSLY, AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE MY TRUST WHERE YOU COULD SELL ME THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, I APRECIATE YOU DEAMING A REPONSABLE PERSON AND WORTHEY OF YOUR GIFT, I FEEL I AM GETTING A GIFT...I CANT EXPLAIN....."
"...Bobby adores the dragons! He couldn't have had a better birthday present. We took them to the vet and the vet said that they were both in very good condition. The vet also confirmed everything that you said with regard to their care. ......... We will continue to follow your care guidelines and call you as additional questions arise (which I'm sure will be many).
Thank you...we are so grateful.
Cynthia"
Bruce Kalish
[email protected]
If you would like to see 100's more please write. We pride ourselves on our service, honesty, and Integrity..
Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again. Therefore say what you want, believe what you may, listen to the rumor mills, and there are other Great Breeders to choose from. We don't expect everyone to agree with us, or buy from us. We love what we do. It is not a business to us, yet a hobby. We Don't inbreed, or linebreed, and have over 50 Pets, that we selectively breed so as to not overbreed any, and burn them out.
HEART
It is only with the heart
that one can see rightly;
what is essential
is invisible to the eye.
- Antoine De Saint-Exupery
Have a little compassion for everyone
C
Chris@TSE
Guest
wow. someone delete some of these duplicate posts! 
Sunshinedragons
New member
I sent you to Brandon after offering a full refund
I guess I set myself up. Bruce Kalish
Curious how you don't want to reread your own post!
We don't operate anything like Fire and Ice. That is like saying Kevin Dunne, or Sandfire operates like Fire and Ice as they don't show individual pictures. We now changed that not due to complaints, yet because it works better, and is more effective. We took it one step further by putting pictures and lineage of the parents there. We only went public within the last year, even though we have been breeding for ten years. The Web site is only a little over a year old. Give us a Break Yet>>>
Not the Point,
You weren't satisfied. I offered you a full refund and to keep the Dragon. Anyone, including Brandon knows that Snows are not pure. We turned you on to Brandon as I knew he had a variety of snows, at much higher prices and higher quality. As he mentioned you get what you pay for. I have no idea how we ended up in that thread when we offered you every option possible to correct your concern.
We should have been mentioned as a quality outfit that stands behind their product, offered a full refund so you can still get what you wanted, you could keep the dragon for Free, the Dragon to keep free or anything to satisfy you. You didn't want to return the dragon, therefore you must have grown attached to him. Just the opposite of the complaint about this thread, not living up to an written obligation. Ours wasn't even written it was good faith. Damned if you do Damned if you don't
Now you may understand why we wouldn't take anything written in a lynch mob mentality as serious, accurate, or even care. We do the best we can. What more do you or does anybody want.
People make mistakes. We will never let anyone question our integrity, honesty, Or good faith, Never!
It appears to me that People would rather be right than do what is right.
The 6 most important words in the English language are:
"I think I made a mistake".
Yet in the thread your post was not positive about all we did to attempt to satisfy you, just what went wrong. Like I said, these threads, and BOI people use to trash people with half of the story,. Instead of complimenting the people that go out of their way to satisfy a customer, or correct a mistake.We even offered you discounts on our cages as well, in addition to everything else, & you never mentioned that either.
In any event what did we have to do with what the Thread was about except jumping on the pile.
I just don't get it.
Bottom line, there was an Issue. We did our best to do anything you wanted to satisfy it. Brandon had a bigger variety of snows than us and I sent you to him with a full refund offer.
You didn't get what you thought you were getting from us. We offered all your money back so you could. You also could still keep the Dragon if you wanted and still go out and use your funds to find what you wanted. We even directed you to a breeder, which by the way, his snows weren't pure either..Orange tint,,which attracted you.. I didn't try to rip you off, and convince you of anything, just the opposite. Brandon had a better snow for your purposes and you imply that.
What else could we have done to satisfy you? Who would have done what we offered?
I just don't get the trashing whenever possible. We should have been mentioned for our efforts, service, and integrity, honesty, and efforts to satisfy you.. Instead of looking at all we did you pointed out the one thing you tried to relate to this tread. Many breeders do things different ways, and many the same.
Now you may understand why we wouldn't take anything written in a lynch mob mentality as serious, accurate, or even care. We do the best we can. What more do you or does anybody want.
People make mistakes. We will never let anyone question our integrity, honesty, Or good faith, Never!
It appears to me that People would rather be right than do what is right.
The 6 most important words in the English language are:
"I think I made a mistake".
Yet in the thread your post was not positive about all we did to attempt to satisfy you, just what went wrong. Like I said, these threads, and BOI people use to trash people with half of the story,. Instead of complimenting the people that go out of their way to satisfy a customer, or correct a mistake.We even offered you discounts on our cages, never mentioned that either.
In any event what did we have to do with what the Thread was about except jumping on the pile.
I just don't get it.
Bottom line, there was an Issue. I did my best to do anything you wanted to satisfy it. Brandon had a bigger variety of snows than us and I sent you to him with a full refund offer.
You didn't get what you thought you were getting from us. We offered all your money back so you could. You also could still keep the Dragon if you wanted and still go out and use your funds to find what you wanted. I even directed you to a breeder, which by the way, his snows weren't pure either..Orange tint,,which attracted you.. I didn't try to rip you off, and convince you of anything, just the opposite. Brandon had a better snow for your purposes and you imply that.
What else could we have done to satisfy you? Who would have done what we offered?
I just don't get the trashing whenever possible. We should have been mentioned for our efforts, service, and integrity, honest. First ,in your thread you mentined you didn't get to see or pick the dragon, now you say you didn't get what we showed you. Which is it. No Wonder you don't want to go back and read your threads. Your inconsistent.. Yet everyone knows Snowsand any morph change with each shed when youn, well anyone that knows about dragons.
Everyone know that Snow are not pute White, even you bought a snow from Brandon with orange in it, as you were atrracted to it. Why no complaint, it wan't pure White. I just don't get why people would rather complain than look at the positives that are happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------blckkat said:
I guess I set myself up. Bruce Kalish
Curious how you don't want to reread your own post!
We don't operate anything like Fire and Ice. That is like saying Kevin Dunne, or Sandfire operates like Fire and Ice as they don't show individual pictures. We now changed that not due to complaints, yet because it works better, and is more effective. We took it one step further by putting pictures and lineage of the parents there. We only went public within the last year, even though we have been breeding for ten years. The Web site is only a little over a year old. Give us a Break Yet>>>
Not the Point,
You weren't satisfied. I offered you a full refund and to keep the Dragon. Anyone, including Brandon knows that Snows are not pure. We turned you on to Brandon as I knew he had a variety of snows, at much higher prices and higher quality. As he mentioned you get what you pay for. I have no idea how we ended up in that thread when we offered you every option possible to correct your concern.
We should have been mentioned as a quality outfit that stands behind their product, offered a full refund so you can still get what you wanted, you could keep the dragon for Free, the Dragon to keep free or anything to satisfy you. You didn't want to return the dragon, therefore you must have grown attached to him. Just the opposite of the complaint about this thread, not living up to an written obligation. Ours wasn't even written it was good faith. Damned if you do Damned if you don't
Now you may understand why we wouldn't take anything written in a lynch mob mentality as serious, accurate, or even care. We do the best we can. What more do you or does anybody want.
People make mistakes. We will never let anyone question our integrity, honesty, Or good faith, Never!
It appears to me that People would rather be right than do what is right.
The 6 most important words in the English language are:
"I think I made a mistake".
Yet in the thread your post was not positive about all we did to attempt to satisfy you, just what went wrong. Like I said, these threads, and BOI people use to trash people with half of the story,. Instead of complimenting the people that go out of their way to satisfy a customer, or correct a mistake.We even offered you discounts on our cages as well, in addition to everything else, & you never mentioned that either.
In any event what did we have to do with what the Thread was about except jumping on the pile.
I just don't get it.
Bottom line, there was an Issue. We did our best to do anything you wanted to satisfy it. Brandon had a bigger variety of snows than us and I sent you to him with a full refund offer.
You didn't get what you thought you were getting from us. We offered all your money back so you could. You also could still keep the Dragon if you wanted and still go out and use your funds to find what you wanted. We even directed you to a breeder, which by the way, his snows weren't pure either..Orange tint,,which attracted you.. I didn't try to rip you off, and convince you of anything, just the opposite. Brandon had a better snow for your purposes and you imply that.
What else could we have done to satisfy you? Who would have done what we offered?
I just don't get the trashing whenever possible. We should have been mentioned for our efforts, service, and integrity, honesty, and efforts to satisfy you.. Instead of looking at all we did you pointed out the one thing you tried to relate to this tread. Many breeders do things different ways, and many the same.
Now you may understand why we wouldn't take anything written in a lynch mob mentality as serious, accurate, or even care. We do the best we can. What more do you or does anybody want.
People make mistakes. We will never let anyone question our integrity, honesty, Or good faith, Never!
It appears to me that People would rather be right than do what is right.
The 6 most important words in the English language are:
"I think I made a mistake".
Yet in the thread your post was not positive about all we did to attempt to satisfy you, just what went wrong. Like I said, these threads, and BOI people use to trash people with half of the story,. Instead of complimenting the people that go out of their way to satisfy a customer, or correct a mistake.We even offered you discounts on our cages, never mentioned that either.
In any event what did we have to do with what the Thread was about except jumping on the pile.
I just don't get it.
Bottom line, there was an Issue. I did my best to do anything you wanted to satisfy it. Brandon had a bigger variety of snows than us and I sent you to him with a full refund offer.
You didn't get what you thought you were getting from us. We offered all your money back so you could. You also could still keep the Dragon if you wanted and still go out and use your funds to find what you wanted. I even directed you to a breeder, which by the way, his snows weren't pure either..Orange tint,,which attracted you.. I didn't try to rip you off, and convince you of anything, just the opposite. Brandon had a better snow for your purposes and you imply that.
What else could we have done to satisfy you? Who would have done what we offered?
I just don't get the trashing whenever possible. We should have been mentioned for our efforts, service, and integrity, honest. First ,in your thread you mentined you didn't get to see or pick the dragon, now you say you didn't get what we showed you. Which is it. No Wonder you don't want to go back and read your threads. Your inconsistent.. Yet everyone knows Snowsand any morph change with each shed when youn, well anyone that knows about dragons.
Everyone know that Snow are not pute White, even you bought a snow from Brandon with orange in it, as you were atrracted to it. Why no complaint, it wan't pure White. I just don't get why people would rather complain than look at the positives that are happening.
"We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to."
Bruce, How about resolving my issues ? Remember, broken cages, broken promises, misleading info, unprofessional interactions. Remember way back in Nov. when I ordered 3 cages, and to this day I am still trying trying to recoup my $$. I know this is not the thread to start this, so I will start a new thread, and tell a very interesting story about Sunshine cages, Bruce and Sam, and broken cages. Stay tuned....
Bruce, How about resolving my issues ? Remember, broken cages, broken promises, misleading info, unprofessional interactions. Remember way back in Nov. when I ordered 3 cages, and to this day I am still trying trying to recoup my $$. I know this is not the thread to start this, so I will start a new thread, and tell a very interesting story about Sunshine cages, Bruce and Sam, and broken cages. Stay tuned....
reptilebreeder
New member
Bruce or Johnathon or whomever is using that log in sunshinedragons, you did more damage to yourself by posting the same freaking post, what six times so far (and counting), to all the different posters comments on this thread. Do yourself, and your company, and your coworker, and us, a favor, practice what you preach
Had you just posted the one response people may have taken those "attaboy" referrences with some seriousness, now I think you have turned everybody off and those comments are worthless, trolling spam now.
sunshinedragons said:
Had you just posted the one response people may have taken those "attaboy" referrences with some seriousness, now I think you have turned everybody off and those comments are worthless, trolling spam now.
Rockford
New member
Uhhhh?
Uhhh.....Bruce? Isn't this thread about Terri? Nice plug but that to me is a bunch of garbage. I am a total outsider to the whole Bearded Dragon scene. But I have an opinion about you and your business tactics and from what I see....not too impressive.
I really don't see a "lynch mob mentality" here like you stated. It is just a whole bunch of common observations put into words. If they were all false accusations....I sure the hell wouldn't be sitting and letting this happen to me. Where's Terri? Why can't she respond? It can't hurt her business any more than it has.
Nice work!! :eek3:
Bthacker
reptilebreeder said:
reptilebreeder said:
Uhhh.....Bruce? Isn't this thread about Terri? Nice plug but that to me is a bunch of garbage. I am a total outsider to the whole Bearded Dragon scene. But I have an opinion about you and your business tactics and from what I see....not too impressive.
I really don't see a "lynch mob mentality" here like you stated. It is just a whole bunch of common observations put into words. If they were all false accusations....I sure the hell wouldn't be sitting and letting this happen to me. Where's Terri? Why can't she respond? It can't hurt her business any more than it has.
Nice work!! :eek3:
Bthacker
CheriS
No furry helpless bunny
Sigh
While multi repeat post fill this board and others made an effort to bring some ethical practices of a breeder to the public (which we seem to catch heck for doing... tough it will not stop me or others from exposing her scams) Terri has scammed again.... while this thread was going on! This one I want to prove is false and she is using the self set up registry to "certify" her false claims, along with her "broad" listed below:
Dr. Thomas Ryan, DVM - Feathers
Scales & Tails Veterinary Hospital
Westminster, MD
Steven Gill
Westminster, MD (but as far as I know he is in the UK)
Darby Cunningham - AAA Reptile Supply
and some guy only known as John - Chameleon Paradise
On her registry she list this
Regarding the citrus line, hee wonderful board she appointed, approved her as the originator of the citrus line just 2 months ago.. what a joke
Citrus - bearded dragon - lizard classification
Submitted by: Terri Sommella
Aproved by an independant panel on: 12/03/2004
http://www.cmpregistry.com/index.php?nv=sta&cl=Lizard&sub=Bearded Dragon&subsub=3
Terri did not have dragons until 2002, below are sites archived online dating back to 1999 and proves this line existed before she even had bearded dragons and who are in fact the people that worked years to develop this line and have now been slapped in the face by this so called board and her.
Here are dragons of the citrus line and called Citrus long before she even was Fire and Ice, If you have a citrus, this is where they came from, not her, no matter what she tells you.....perhaps we can not do anything about her self styled organizations/boards/panels and endorsing her false claims, but we certainly can expose them and give the people credit that did work and develop them! There are in achieves online from 1999-2001, the archive date is in the URL
2001 ( a year before she had dragons) Aaron Kosins of DragonAddict
http://web.archive.org/web/20011024015826/www.dragonaddict.com/pictures.htm
Note the last listing and click on it.... citrus dragons - Sandfire Yellow/Yellow Red Desert X CITRUS
http://web.archive.org/web/20011024015826/www.dragonaddict.com/pictures.htm
Note the Citrus baby, Citrus sub adult and Citrus mother
2000 (2 years before she had dragons) Atomic Lizard Ranch Paul & Collette Latimer, the nicest couple you would ever want to met and do so much with bearded dragons in the US early on.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000305230826/www.kingsnake.com/atomic/index1.html
Note the Citrus Dragons mentioned on the front page: Yellow , Citrus , Tangerine Phase
1999 (3 years before she had dragons) Tony from Yellowdragon.com, who took a yellow from Atomic Lizard Ranch and crossed it with a Sunburst from Kevin Dunne of Dragons Den Herps
http://web.archive.org/web/19990202094734/www.yellowdragon.com/bdragon.htm
Last phase listed: "Citrus" Phase
This phase is obtained by crossing a "Sunburst" male with a yellow female
A SUNBURST MALE.... the line Kevin Dunne originated years before... A yellow female(also called citrus) from Atomic Lizard ranch..... both that were working with the citrus line (and calling it that) as early as 1999..... 3 years before Terri first contacted these people to buy the dragons from them, that she now claims to have originated. People, don't be fooled..... check!
So Terri, how did you create a line that existed years before you ever had any dragons and can be proven online from other breeders archived websites? How can you register it officially with your "board" and your "registry" now to have your "certified" papers crediting you with it? How can you claim 15 years breeding.....when many of us have emails from you just 3 years ago starting out? Each time you claim it, we will call you on it! You didn't, you bought them from these people 2-3 years ago and are claiming their work.... outright thieving.. if this is your ethics, is it any wonder you would take a few hundred dollars from the very people you called " stupid" and you consider beneath you, "because they are reptile people and easy"? (remember sitting in my hotel room.. I sure do and your comments disgusted me then, this was all a SHOW ME THE MONEY game to you in an industry you think is low class) I think you need to be exposed for what you are and if others think that is trashing you.... IMO, you deserve it.
Paul, I am sorry you got bashed in this, I know your heart is in the right place, but your new too and would have no way of knowing she is lying, deceitful and conning so many people.. I would think real careful about breeding any of the dragons you got from her..... until she discloses the real bloodlines of them and you know what inbreeding genetics you are really working with. It amazes me that someone that trout's bloodlines like her, will not tell you the parentage of the dragons she sells you and you do not question them.... but MANY people know them that have been around for more than a few years and know where her breeders came from.
Now, I am done with this thread, I think the turth of this "breeder" is out.
While multi repeat post fill this board and others made an effort to bring some ethical practices of a breeder to the public (which we seem to catch heck for doing... tough it will not stop me or others from exposing her scams) Terri has scammed again.... while this thread was going on! This one I want to prove is false and she is using the self set up registry to "certify" her false claims, along with her "broad" listed below:
Dr. Thomas Ryan, DVM - Feathers
Scales & Tails Veterinary Hospital
Westminster, MD
Steven Gill
Westminster, MD (but as far as I know he is in the UK)
Darby Cunningham - AAA Reptile Supply
and some guy only known as John - Chameleon Paradise
On her registry she list this
BTW: those misspellings above and below are from her site, not my misspelling
Regarding the citrus line, hee wonderful board she appointed, approved her as the originator of the citrus line just 2 months ago.. what a joke
Citrus - bearded dragon - lizard classification
Submitted by: Terri Sommella
Aproved by an independant panel on: 12/03/2004
http://www.cmpregistry.com/index.php?nv=sta&cl=Lizard&sub=Bearded Dragon&subsub=3
Terri did not have dragons until 2002, below are sites archived online dating back to 1999 and proves this line existed before she even had bearded dragons and who are in fact the people that worked years to develop this line and have now been slapped in the face by this so called board and her.
Here are dragons of the citrus line and called Citrus long before she even was Fire and Ice, If you have a citrus, this is where they came from, not her, no matter what she tells you.....perhaps we can not do anything about her self styled organizations/boards/panels and endorsing her false claims, but we certainly can expose them and give the people credit that did work and develop them! There are in achieves online from 1999-2001, the archive date is in the URL
2001 ( a year before she had dragons) Aaron Kosins of DragonAddict
http://web.archive.org/web/20011024015826/www.dragonaddict.com/pictures.htm
Note the last listing and click on it.... citrus dragons - Sandfire Yellow/Yellow Red Desert X CITRUS
http://web.archive.org/web/20011024015826/www.dragonaddict.com/pictures.htm
Note the Citrus baby, Citrus sub adult and Citrus mother
2000 (2 years before she had dragons) Atomic Lizard Ranch Paul & Collette Latimer, the nicest couple you would ever want to met and do so much with bearded dragons in the US early on.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000305230826/www.kingsnake.com/atomic/index1.html
Note the Citrus Dragons mentioned on the front page: Yellow , Citrus , Tangerine Phase
1999 (3 years before she had dragons) Tony from Yellowdragon.com, who took a yellow from Atomic Lizard Ranch and crossed it with a Sunburst from Kevin Dunne of Dragons Den Herps
http://web.archive.org/web/19990202094734/www.yellowdragon.com/bdragon.htm
Last phase listed: "Citrus" Phase
This phase is obtained by crossing a "Sunburst" male with a yellow female
A SUNBURST MALE.... the line Kevin Dunne originated years before... A yellow female(also called citrus) from Atomic Lizard ranch..... both that were working with the citrus line (and calling it that) as early as 1999..... 3 years before Terri first contacted these people to buy the dragons from them, that she now claims to have originated. People, don't be fooled..... check!
So Terri, how did you create a line that existed years before you ever had any dragons and can be proven online from other breeders archived websites? How can you register it officially with your "board" and your "registry" now to have your "certified" papers crediting you with it? How can you claim 15 years breeding.....when many of us have emails from you just 3 years ago starting out? Each time you claim it, we will call you on it! You didn't, you bought them from these people 2-3 years ago and are claiming their work.... outright thieving.. if this is your ethics, is it any wonder you would take a few hundred dollars from the very people you called " stupid" and you consider beneath you, "because they are reptile people and easy"? (remember sitting in my hotel room.. I sure do and your comments disgusted me then, this was all a SHOW ME THE MONEY game to you in an industry you think is low class) I think you need to be exposed for what you are and if others think that is trashing you.... IMO, you deserve it.
Paul, I am sorry you got bashed in this, I know your heart is in the right place, but your new too and would have no way of knowing she is lying, deceitful and conning so many people.. I would think real careful about breeding any of the dragons you got from her..... until she discloses the real bloodlines of them and you know what inbreeding genetics you are really working with. It amazes me that someone that trout's bloodlines like her, will not tell you the parentage of the dragons she sells you and you do not question them.... but MANY people know them that have been around for more than a few years and know where her breeders came from.
Now, I am done with this thread, I think the turth of this "breeder" is out.
earthdragon23
New member
I was going to buy from Fire and Ice and quickly changed my mind. I was looking for a very red beardie. I called Terri up she was great at first, I told her what I was looking for. She wanted $750 for a 7.5 dragon. She wouldn't send me a picture. After talking to her for awhile I found out that line breeding is invovled, since I don't believe in that I decided to pass on the animal. Needless to say, she became very angery at me. Just my experience, but I have heard others have purchased great animals from her. I never will though.
earthdragon23
earthdragon23
TripleMoonsExotic
New member
Darn you, Bruce. I had thought you had just sent me an email (since you had stated you were no longer going to post on this thread)...Now I see it's posted here with some additional commintary (sp?). Well, I'm not going to retype all that I had already said to you (feel free to post the email - my account doesn't automatically save sent emails)...but I will reply to some things that were not in the email...
I knew EXACTLY what I was purchasing from Brandon. I was not purchasing a Snow, I was purchasing an animal from his line of Orange Snows. No, Snows are not pure white...but the description that Dragons Den has up describing the Snow line is what one should expect. Not a normal colored Dragon (unless someone bred a Snow to another type of Dragon...is that what you did? Obviously, with a line bred trait...You wouldn't end up with Snows, but normals that may have similiar variations as Snows). If I purchase something that is listed as a Snow, I expect it to be from a Snow x Snow breeding (my mistake I guess).
I've had Nova for what, 5 months? Over all this time, with all of the sheds he's had, he has not changed. As Snows should.
BOTTOM LINE...I was dissapointed with Sunshine Dragon's Snows. Period.
The red babies you had pictures of for sale on your site were very impressive (that was a few months ago). They look like what I would expect them to, being what they are. Your snow line is not what you had shown on your site (you have since removed that picture of the hatchling snow...I would think because you no longer have the Snow hatchlings). I do not believe you properly represented your Snow line on your site.
I had stated I was not going to dig through 45 pages of a thread to find my posts (and now, this thread has turned into 47 pages). I don't recommend you accuse me of being shady for not having the desire to dig through all of this mess.
I knew EXACTLY what I was purchasing from Brandon. I was not purchasing a Snow, I was purchasing an animal from his line of Orange Snows. No, Snows are not pure white...but the description that Dragons Den has up describing the Snow line is what one should expect. Not a normal colored Dragon (unless someone bred a Snow to another type of Dragon...is that what you did? Obviously, with a line bred trait...You wouldn't end up with Snows, but normals that may have similiar variations as Snows). If I purchase something that is listed as a Snow, I expect it to be from a Snow x Snow breeding (my mistake I guess).
I've had Nova for what, 5 months? Over all this time, with all of the sheds he's had, he has not changed. As Snows should.
BOTTOM LINE...I was dissapointed with Sunshine Dragon's Snows. Period.
The red babies you had pictures of for sale on your site were very impressive (that was a few months ago). They look like what I would expect them to, being what they are. Your snow line is not what you had shown on your site (you have since removed that picture of the hatchling snow...I would think because you no longer have the Snow hatchlings). I do not believe you properly represented your Snow line on your site.
I had stated I was not going to dig through 45 pages of a thread to find my posts (and now, this thread has turned into 47 pages). I don't recommend you accuse me of being shady for not having the desire to dig through all of this mess.
I don't Trust Anyone
After reading these boards for a month now, I have come to the conclusion that this hobby is littered with shadiness. All? By no means, but an alarming number of breeders have less than favorable ratings. I would NEVER buy from Fire and Ice or Sunshine
. The only breeder I've spoken to thus far that has instilled any confidence is Daichu. She spent an hour on the phone with me even after finding out I'm not looking to pick another beardie for a couple months. Very informative and told me to call anytime with questions. We've had my son's beardie for 2 weeks and have fallen in love. If it weren't for Daichu, I'd go to the local petshop. Not as pretty as some of these high priced colored Dragons, but I could see what I was getting. If I'm going to spend 500.00 I'm going to pick it up in person. Not open it with the morning mail. Just my take on it.
After reading these boards for a month now, I have come to the conclusion that this hobby is littered with shadiness. All? By no means, but an alarming number of breeders have less than favorable ratings. I would NEVER buy from Fire and Ice or Sunshine
. The only breeder I've spoken to thus far that has instilled any confidence is Daichu. She spent an hour on the phone with me even after finding out I'm not looking to pick another beardie for a couple months. Very informative and told me to call anytime with questions. We've had my son's beardie for 2 weeks and have fallen in love. If it weren't for Daichu, I'd go to the local petshop. Not as pretty as some of these high priced colored Dragons, but I could see what I was getting. If I'm going to spend 500.00 I'm going to pick it up in person. Not open it with the morning mail. Just my take on it.CheriS
No furry helpless bunny
I am sure people are exhausted reading this if they just started it... but since the rules of this site request that we continue on the same thread regarding a breeders... here is the current what I consider poor business practices. I hate spam and spammers and I really hate someone that steals from others to promote themselves
Terri or someone hired by her busniess Fire and Ice Dragons is harversting and spamming email addresses from other reptile related sites/forums/list (bearded dragons mostly) I guess I really should not be surprised. Remember when FLukers did this to launch Reptile Republic and what that lead to? (Anyone that does not know or remember can do a search on this site of Flukers or Reptile Republic and see it)
I and many others were spammed with a copy of her "NEWLETTER" today which is basically a promotional ad for her dragons for sale, her registry that she wants people to pay her to register their animals on and this is driectly from the newsletter after announcing she is the president of it, but forgets to say she invented it and is the one that is pocketing the money for this service
Anyway, Spamming is a nuisance, stealing emails from others is being a thief.. whether you do it or hire someone to do it for you. I know they stole them from other sites as one of the "newsletters" I got from her/her representative was addressed to another Yahoo list that I moderate one, so came to me as the owner, so you know they sure did not sign up to receive email from her. Here is the header that came to me and at least a dozen others I know of and the return email to unsubscribe.
To: [email protected]
Subject: Dragon Tracks: December, 2005
From: "lisa voglesonger songbird productions" <[email protected]>
No Idea who Lisa Voglesonger-songbird productions is, but assume that must be who she hired to spam us all or harvest the emails from other sites from and put the newsletter together
Then comes the body of the Newletter, which is kind of funny as the majority of it is raving about herself, her CMPR registry and her dragons, but many links do not work, the one for what is available titled:
"For the Discriminating Buyer: Now Available"
takes you to this link: http://www.emailbrain.com/rwcode/ OOPS, I do not think they sell dragons there!
which is the name at the bottom of the email as Powered by Emailbrain and
Songbird Productions - 1675 Jockey Creek Drive, Southold, 11971, United States
which is probably the spam service she used, since the UNSUBSCRIBE LINK is to this:
http://www.emailbrain.com/RWCode/[email protected]&hitid=1133545139000
I do wonder if it was them who stole the emails with her paying them or her who stole them and supplied the emails to them. I can not imagine why if someone paid attention to what they were doing, they would send ANY to me, but then they may not have noticed it was me since they thought it was going to a yahoo list owner.
PLEASE BE CAUTIOUS OF THIS PERSON, look at what they are doing, have done and ask yourself if this someone you can trust your money and time to?
Terri or someone hired by her busniess Fire and Ice Dragons is harversting and spamming email addresses from other reptile related sites/forums/list (bearded dragons mostly) I guess I really should not be surprised. Remember when FLukers did this to launch Reptile Republic and what that lead to? (Anyone that does not know or remember can do a search on this site of Flukers or Reptile Republic and see it)
I and many others were spammed with a copy of her "NEWLETTER" today which is basically a promotional ad for her dragons for sale, her registry that she wants people to pay her to register their animals on and this is driectly from the newsletter after announcing she is the president of it, but forgets to say she invented it and is the one that is pocketing the money for this service
PURIST?
Anyway, Spamming is a nuisance, stealing emails from others is being a thief.. whether you do it or hire someone to do it for you. I know they stole them from other sites as one of the "newsletters" I got from her/her representative was addressed to another Yahoo list that I moderate one, so came to me as the owner, so you know they sure did not sign up to receive email from her. Here is the header that came to me and at least a dozen others I know of and the return email to unsubscribe.
To: [email protected]
Subject: Dragon Tracks: December, 2005
From: "lisa voglesonger songbird productions" <[email protected]>
No Idea who Lisa Voglesonger-songbird productions is, but assume that must be who she hired to spam us all or harvest the emails from other sites from and put the newsletter together
Then comes the body of the Newletter, which is kind of funny as the majority of it is raving about herself, her CMPR registry and her dragons, but many links do not work, the one for what is available titled:
"For the Discriminating Buyer: Now Available"
takes you to this link: http://www.emailbrain.com/rwcode/ OOPS, I do not think they sell dragons there!
which is the name at the bottom of the email as Powered by Emailbrain and
Songbird Productions - 1675 Jockey Creek Drive, Southold, 11971, United States
which is probably the spam service she used, since the UNSUBSCRIBE LINK is to this:
http://www.emailbrain.com/RWCode/[email protected]&hitid=1133545139000
I do wonder if it was them who stole the emails with her paying them or her who stole them and supplied the emails to them. I can not imagine why if someone paid attention to what they were doing, they would send ANY to me, but then they may not have noticed it was me since they thought it was going to a yahoo list owner.
PLEASE BE CAUTIOUS OF THIS PERSON, look at what they are doing, have done and ask yourself if this someone you can trust your money and time to?
Just out of curiosity, how exactly do you "steal" an email address from sites/forums/lists? Wouldn't the owner of said email account have volunteered their email address at some point? I understand that some people may look at what this person is doing as spamming, but I guess I don't see how it constitutes theft. 
CheriS
No furry helpless bunny
Paul,
When you registered here on Fauna or any other site, you provided an email to them for the purpose of using thier service. That was the extent of what you authoirzed. You did not authorize someone else from somewhere else to come on those places and by using other means to harvest your email, that is called stealing (ei, a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully) and then to sell it to others or use it to send you uninvited emails to solicit you. That is called spam (ei n: unsolicited usually commercial e-mail sent to a large number of addresses )
Those are Websters definitions, not mine or "that some people may look at what this person is doing as spamming" it is spamming. Of course, people that do it or want to promote themselves that way, never do see it as SPAM. I think the usually line is there were just "helping others". An email was never given or provided to Fire and Ice for them to send out those newsletter or asked for by the owners of them, they harvested them or hired someone to get them from other sites.... thats stealing.
This site is fairly protected from harvesting emails, and people viewing your IP address, but many are not or can be harvested by ways not everyone knows, or by programs that can be used. I am not going to go into the details here of how it it is done and start a rush of more people spamming and harassing others.
A few years ago Fluker Farms/Reptile Republic did it to many reptile related sites/forums/list, I remember how many people on here and KS posted and were upset about it. Since then, bacause of what Flukers/Reptile Republic did, many sites have updated their forums and removed the ability for others to access that information so easily, but a lot of list and smaller forums still have the ability for someone to do it, like the one above that I am on and they used to get my email. Other's can hire someone to access that infomation.
Its the internet, many thing are possible if someone wants to pay for it and others are sneaky enough to do it. This thread alone shoudld tell you that you can make up names, add years to your actual experience, award your animals ribbons and trophies, make yourself president of multi business names and appoint yourself to board of directors of other made up ones to impress people and even claim to invent something you never were near.. some will even believe it and maybe you can make some money off them for awhile.. but that does not make it right, true or a honest person. It makes a con artist taking advantage of others.
When you registered here on Fauna or any other site, you provided an email to them for the purpose of using thier service. That was the extent of what you authoirzed. You did not authorize someone else from somewhere else to come on those places and by using other means to harvest your email, that is called stealing (ei, a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully) and then to sell it to others or use it to send you uninvited emails to solicit you. That is called spam (ei n: unsolicited usually commercial e-mail sent to a large number of addresses )
Those are Websters definitions, not mine or "that some people may look at what this person is doing as spamming" it is spamming. Of course, people that do it or want to promote themselves that way, never do see it as SPAM. I think the usually line is there were just "helping others". An email was never given or provided to Fire and Ice for them to send out those newsletter or asked for by the owners of them, they harvested them or hired someone to get them from other sites.... thats stealing.
This site is fairly protected from harvesting emails, and people viewing your IP address, but many are not or can be harvested by ways not everyone knows, or by programs that can be used. I am not going to go into the details here of how it it is done and start a rush of more people spamming and harassing others.
A few years ago Fluker Farms/Reptile Republic did it to many reptile related sites/forums/list, I remember how many people on here and KS posted and were upset about it. Since then, bacause of what Flukers/Reptile Republic did, many sites have updated their forums and removed the ability for others to access that information so easily, but a lot of list and smaller forums still have the ability for someone to do it, like the one above that I am on and they used to get my email. Other's can hire someone to access that infomation.
Its the internet, many thing are possible if someone wants to pay for it and others are sneaky enough to do it. This thread alone shoudld tell you that you can make up names, add years to your actual experience, award your animals ribbons and trophies, make yourself president of multi business names and appoint yourself to board of directors of other made up ones to impress people and even claim to invent something you never were near.. some will even believe it and maybe you can make some money off them for awhile.. but that does not make it right, true or a honest person. It makes a con artist taking advantage of others.