Why are Katrina victims called Refugees?

[PaulSage]

Cathy, Paul's idea has already been nixed by Rich in another thread. It seems that the last time an opportunity to help happened he got burned and doesn't not want to go back there.

I had expected the response I got but like I also said, I thought it was at least worth asking since I didn't really know where everyone was at with the idea of reopening it. I know it's best to just give cash to the relief organizations, but I figured "Hey, I don't need this, this and that" and I was basically looking at it as a bake sale or rummage sale to help raise more money. Every little bit helps, and there's no donation too small. However, Rich is probably right, and it would most likely just come back to bite him once again. It's a shame when you get burned for trying to help someone else or do something nice.

We must have some members of this community in New Orleans that have been hurt traumatically by this.

But Nobody else will help people in our community to rebuild their business or replace animals. I would make a suggestion, that we make straight donations of our choice but we use the Fauna Fund to help the members of community that will need some help. They will not be assisted by anyone else.

Dennis, I think that's a good idea. I only know one breeder near the affected area, and he posted on his website that he was spared by a mere 50 miles. Maybe we could just use the missing persons forum to try to locate anyone whom we may know from the affected area.

 

[Cat_72]

Karen, I honestly didn't read anything except what Jim typed in black and white into what he said. He in fact posted exactly what I was thinking, though he said it a lot more eloquently than I seem to have the ability to do. I would have been thinking the same thing regardless of who the author of the original post was, and I'm not sure why you took it so personally....it was a legitimate answer to the question you asked.

 

[DAND]

Use of the Word 'Refugee' Stirs Debate (and not just here)

NEW YORK - What do you call people who have been driven from their homes with only the clothes on their backs, unsure if they will ever be able to return, and forced to build a new life in a strange place?

News organizations are struggling for the right word.

Many, including The Associated Press, have used "refugee" to describe those displaced by the wrath of Hurricane Katrina.

But the choice has stirred anger among some readers and other critics, particularly in the black community. They have argued that "refugee" somehow implies that the displaced storm victims, many of whom are black, are second-class citizens — or not even Americans.

"It is racist to call American citizens refugees," the Rev. Jesse Jackson said, visiting the Houston Astrodome on Monday. Members of the Congressional Black Caucus have expressed similar sentiments.

Others have countered that the terms "evacuees" or even "displaced" are too clinical and not sufficiently dramatic to convey the dire situation that confronts many of Katrina's survivors.

President Bush, who has spent days trying to deflect criticism that he responded sluggishly to the disaster, weighed in on Tuesday. "The people we're talking about are not refugees," he said. "They are Americans and they need the help and love and compassion of our fellow citizens."

The 1951 U.N. Refugee Convention describes a refugee as someone who has fled across an international border to escape violence or persecution. But the Webster's New World Dictionary defines it more broadly as "a person who flees from home or country to seek refuge elsewhere, as in a time of war or of political or religious persecution."

The criticism has led several news organizations to ban the word in their Katrina coverage. Among them are The Washington Post, The Miami Herald and The Boston Globe.

"A number of people — from officials speaking publicly to colleagues here — said the term `refugees' appeared to imply that people displaced from New Orleans ... were other than Americans," Leonard Downie Jr., the Post's executive editor, wrote in an e-mail to his staff.

At the Herald, said executive editor Tom Fiedler, "it began to feel odd, describing people huddled in New Orleans' convention center as refugees. It felt inadequate to the situation. ... It wasn't as precise as `evacuees.'"

And CNN has advised producers that "evacuee" is a better word, said spokeswoman Christa Robinson.

The AP and The New York Times are among those continuing to use the word where it is deemed appropriate.

"The AP is using the term `refugee' where appropriate to capture the sweep and scope of the effects of this historic natural disaster on a vast number of our citizens," said Executive Editor Kathleen Carroll. "Several hundred thousand people have been uprooted from their homes and communities and forced to seek refuge in more than 30 different states across America. Until such time as they are able to take up new lives in their new communities or return to their former homes, they will be refugees."

The Times was adhering to a similar policy.

"We have not banned the word `refugee,'" said spokeswoman Catherine Mathis. "We have used it along with `evacuee,' `survivor,' `displaced' and various other terms that fit what our reporters are seeing on the ground. Webster's defines a refugee as a person fleeing `home or country' in search of refuge, and it certainly does justice to the suffering legions driven from their homes by Katrina."

Columnist William Safire, who writes the weekly "On Language" column for The New York Times Magazine, said he did not see how the term "refugee" had any racial implications.

"A refugee can be a person of any race at all," he said. "A refugee is a person who seeks refuge."

He first suggested using the term "hurricane refugees." After thinking it over, though, he said he would probably simply use "flood victims," to avoid any political connotations that the word "refugee" may have taken on in the current debate.

 

[listenn]

Perspective please

I agree with Laura's post 100%. What difference does it make what we call them.....they are people in desperate need of help. Period. Instead of worrying about the proper name for them, perhaps we could be spending our time a lot more wisely trying to come up with ways we could all help those in need.

I like Paul's idea a lot....what does everyone think? I'm up for more Fauna fund bidding!!

Karen, Jim, may I please interrupt . . .


I still have several immediate family members still missing.
Would you please ask around/ forward this list to anyone from that area?


New Orleans, LA area:
George, Donnie, Barbara, Clay, David and Kathy Bohn
Faith and Joyce Champagne

Gulfport, MS area:
Judy Davis
Gene, Jan, and Charlie Swearengine (Charlie is a life flight paramedic)
Justin (Gerald) Richardson
Laurie, Cowles and Will Sims (Laurie taught @ Long Beach Jr High)
Lyisha Barkum
Tereasa Ungarro
Theresa Ouilette
Georgeanna Kennedy
Vicky Lindsey (taught @ Gulfport Jr High)
Vickey Lindsey

Kiln, MS area:
Janet Fayard

1/2 of my immediate family in New Orleans lived by the 17th Street Levey and lost EVERYTHING once that levee broke to add to the destruction. Their houses, jobs . . . EVERYTHING. ALL of my mom's family lives in N.O. I am from Gulfport, MS and my parents, my friends, their kids . . . are still there. LA and MS has closed damn near all roads and those that are open, are NOT allowing anyone, including immediate family members, in to even try to get them out!

I don't care what the f you're calling MY family and friends that have been displaced and now scattered about the country, living in airports and stadiums, among places . . . side-by-side, passing by the dead bodies of their friends . . . and if it means so damn much to you why don't you talk to them and ask them what they want to be called. I bet they all say thankful to be alive! Why don't you think about that next time you're taking a shower, enjoying air conditioning, having a hot meal, sleeping in your bed, or just driving around town. Please, PLEASE argue about something something else. You're tearing me apart!


My heart and prayers go out to all who's lives have been forever changed. Thank you for helping me locate my family and friends still missing. A special THANK YOU to EVERYONE who has helped me locate over half of those who were missing.

The names listed above are still missing.

Sincerely,
Julie K. Coultes

 

[KelliH]

However, Rich is probably right, and it would most likely just come back to bite him once again. It's a shame when you get burned for trying to help someone else or do something nice.

I'm sorry, I cannot believe what I am reading here. I assume you are referring to The Hayden Fund? Am I correct? If so, Rich had very little to do with that. It was organized by my friends in the leopard gecko community, not Fauna. Would someone, anyone, mind telling me how Rich got burned? I will be awaiting an answer for this one. Thanks.

 

[PaulSage]

I'm sorry, I cannot believe what I am reading here. I assume you are referring to The Hayden Fund? Am I correct? If so, Rich had very little to do with that. It was organized by my friends in the leopard gecko community, not Fauna. Would someone, anyone, mind telling me how Rich got burned? I will be awaiting an answer for this one. Thanks.

My last post was tainted by some of my own private hell I've been dealing with lately, and I'm sorry that it made it's way here. I was doing my best to avoid that. I guess I failed and have offended some people here. I'm sorry.

However, Rich is probably right, and it would most likely just come back to bite him once again. It's a shame when you get burned for trying to help someone else or do something nice.

Rich did take some flack during/after the Hayden Fund. That's been my observation, and perhaps it's wrong. I don't know. I didn't mean to imply that he got 'burned' by hosting some of the auctions here. I apologize for it coming out that way. My second sentence in the above quote was entirely based on things I've been dealing with lately and should not have been included with the previous tangent.

Kelli (and everyone else), I apologize for it sounding that way. I did not mean to imply that Rich was the one who got burned.

...and here we were just talking about how drama and controversy have affected Fauna participation. Guess I managed to stuff my foot in my mouth and screw that up pretty well, huh?

 

[KelliH]

Paul, don't worry about it at all. I understand.

It's not really drama, in my opinion. At least this situation regarding the Hayden Fund. It's truth. And there are legitimate reasons why certain things happened with that situation. I'll just call them consequences and leave it at that for now.

I have donated to the Red Cross (back on topic now) and will continue to do so. I pray for all of the people that have been affected by Katrina, refugees, evacuees, whatever label one wants to put on them, they are still United States citizens and as such they are our brothers and sisters. Remember, There, but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[Wilomn]

I knew this guy a long time ago.

This guy had a dog, sleek beautiful, well mannered (mostly),smart, independant, all those good things. A real lady amoung mutts.

She's also a real bitch.

Bottom line is, no matter what you call her, when you come right down to it Canis familiaris is what she is.

Take her to the beach, she's a dog.
Take her to the park, she's a dog.
Take her to the woods and dump her, she's a dog.

Who gives a rat's patootie what they're called.

How about this. Let's call them all dumbasses for living in a place that they KNEW would be flooded one day.

Of course when you look up dumbass it will show you a picture of a homo sapiens.

Speaking as one familiar with stupid bickering, this is just pathetic.

All of you, to your rooms until dinner and if you can't get along then there will be NO desert for the rest of the week.

Jeez, the things you kids fight over.

 

[Dennis1]

Actually JimO she is right it seems you do like to argue

Name calling? Not outside of the "Hell Forum" where that is fair game. But find 500 posts where I engage in name calling of the manner that you just did (outside of Hell) and I'll give you a buck apiece. Or better yet, I'll give $500 to the Katrina relief fund of your choice.

Can i have at least 2 dollars that i know of first hand?
I would like you to send it directly to me instead of sending it to a charity that probably wont help the people it was intended for!
Although i think that calling them refugees is a O.K.
I know I know im petty

 

[Dennis Hultman]

If Julie’s post was not enough……..


Last I checked, the PM system still works.
Besides I think you had to find a minimum of 500 to collect.

Julie,
I understand what you are dealing with, I just do not know how to help you.

 

[Dennis1]

I must apologize to Julie i must have missed her post
I hope you find all of your relatives/friends

 

[Jim O]

Actually JimO she is right it seems you do like to argue

Can i have at least 2 dollars that i know of first hand?
I would like you to send it directly to me instead of sending it to a charity that probably wont help the people it was intended for!
Although i think that calling them refugees is a O.K.
I know I know im petty

I'll be happy to send you $2 worth of waxworms, but they'll have some fly maggots in them. What's your address?

 

[listenn]

Still Missing

I knew this guy a long time ago.

This guy had a dog, sleek beautiful, well mannered (mostly),smart, independant, all those good things. A real lady amoung mutts.

She's also a real bitch.

Bottom line is, no matter what you call her, when you come right down to it Canis familiaris is what she is.

Take her to the beach, she's a dog.
Take her to the park, she's a dog.
Take her to the woods and dump her, she's a dog.

Who gives a rat's patootie what they're called.

How about this. Let's call them all dumbasses for living in a place that they KNEW would be flooded one day.

Of course when you look up dumbass it will show you a picture of a homo sapiens.

Speaking as one familiar with stupid bickering, this is just pathetic.

All of you, to your rooms until dinner and if you can't get along then there will be NO desert for the rest of the week.

Jeez, the things you kids fight over.

MOST of the "dumbass' you're referring to COULD NOT AFFORD to leave! Do you think everyone has the $ to just pick up residence and move? Gas was then $2.55 a gal., Now let's add infants and children to that equation, how about their family members, how about everyone that makes minimum wage or below poverty level, don't forget about the elderly cared for by Hospice . . . Do you really think that entire cities can just pick up and move?

You're talking about the ENTIRE Mississippi Delta genius. That ONLY receives more than half of the countries produce and supplies. Do you have a clue how important those ports are?

Katrina hit New Orleans as a Category 5. That's the equivalent of a F4 tornado, except hurricanes are much, much bigger and produce/ carry tornadoes within them. She was the 2nd worst hurricane the U.S. has had. The worst was the Sept. 8, 1900, "Galveston Hurricane", an estimated 6,000–8,000 died.

1/2 of my immediate family in New Orleans lived by the 17th Street Levey and lost EVERYTHING once that levee broke to add to the destruction. Their houses, jobs . . . EVERYTHING. ALL of my mom's family lives in N.O. My parents, my friends, their kids . . . are still there. LA and MS closed damn near all roads and those that are open, are STILL not allowing anyone, including immediate family members, in to even try to get them out!

I'm still struggling with taking this all in and really just trying to keep from falling apart. We were just down there July 16th - 23rd.
It physically makes me sick when I hear people just adding to the situation. I think the lot of them should enroll in some sort of Humanities class.

Are the conditions down there so different from when America was struggling to house the immigrants pouring in? I know it's not the exact same, but they're struggling with the exact same issues . . . shelter, food, water, toilets, bedding, clothing, transportation, space, etc. Cities have been completely destroyed, burned, vandalized and looted. We had to call the National Guard present to restore law, not only to help rebuild things, but to protect officers and citizens alike that were being shot by looters that stayed behind to trash what they could!!!

Your parents never tell you as bad as what it is to try and spare your feelings and stuff. So I'm going nuts and studying has about gone out the window, not completely, but all of my free time is spent scouring over Red Cross registries and whatnot. A friend's father called me yesterday . . . he's STILL not heard from his daughter . . . she lived in Waveland and could not leave. The storm surge there topped another friends 2nd story house and was over 40 feet.

My friend, Ruth Biehl, lived in apartments in Waveland rowed in a rubber raft from building to building during Katrina's eye and plucked CHILDREN out of the storm surge. Many did not have adults with them . . . for many it was too late, they had already died and their parent's did not want to leave. They had already lost everything . . . their children, their parents, their home . . . some could not find a reason to live any longer.

Another close friend, Melissa Bennett, had her power turned on last night and had opened her home to more then 15 survivors, giving such simple things as shelter, food, water, clothing . . . hope.

I do find some comfort speaking with those I can . . . and I have a very unselfish reason to study and go to class . . . I went to Dr. Karsen's Animal Biology class last night and he said he had a message for me. He told me Jeffery W. Floyd asked if I would send him my notes, we had traded before and even if we hadn't it was no big deal. Dr. Karsen just kind of stood there with a rather long face about him, then said . . . Jeff was called up for duty for the National Guard to help with disaster relief . . . that took my breath away.

This has really effect my studies and I honestly just want to go down there just to hug my mom, my dad, my sisters and my brothers . . . my family. To feel their warm skin, hear their breath and see their faces . . . you know?


It's amazing to see so many coming together to help people in need. I wish everyone would.


My apologies to all but I am STILL trying to locate my family in Gulfport and Kiln, MS and New Orleans, LA.

If you know the where abouts, or have heard from ANYONE in those areas PLEASE contact me. We have been desperately trying to get in touch with ANYONE from that area.

I'm searching for the familys of:

New Orleans, LA area:
George, Donnie, Barbara, Clay and Kathy Bohn
Faith and Joyce Champagne

Gulfport, MS area:
Judy Davis
Gene, Jan, and Charlie Swearengine (Charlie is a Life Flight paramedic)
Justin (Gerald) Richardson
Laurie, Cowles and Will Sims (Laurie taught @ Long Beach Jr High)
Lyisha Barkum
John Paul and Leslie Corassco
Tereasa Ungarro
Theresa Ouilette
Georgeanna Kinney
Vicky Lindsey (taught @ Bayou View Jr High)
Vickey Lindsey
Gerald Tate (mom taught @ Bayou View Jr High)

Kiln, MS area:
Janet Fayard

And others I'm still too shocked to think of.


*** IF YOU KNOW OF ANYONE RELOCATING TO OKLAHOMA, OR IS STILL IN MISSISSIPPI NEEDING ASSISTANCE CONTACT ME. *** Some of my friends and I are setting up a network to help transport and care for those in need.

THANK ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE HELPED UPDATE THIS LIST!
(9/12 10:50am CST)
Sincerely,
Julie K. Coultes (Favre)

 

[Wilomn]

Poorness does NOT equate to stupidity.

If you're poor does this mean that you are unable to understand what a floodbasin is? If you are poor does this mean you are unable to pick up and move yourself somewhere else? If you are poor do you HAVE to just sit there and wait?

NO, genious. It does NOT.

Poor people can be really smart. Poor people DO have the ability to see that they are living in an area TEN FEET BELOW SEA LEVEL in an area that for most of geological history has been subject to FLOODING.

Poor people can better themselves and their circumstances. HOWEVER, to do that they have to be willing to ACT on what they know. Not sit and wait, hoping that someone else will take care of them.

I have great sympathy for those who lost it all, families, homes, what have you. BUT I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who KNEW better and stayed.

When I was a kid I lived near a HUGE manmade lake. The back of the lake was lots and lots of rocks, a creek and a neat place to go herping. It was also dangerous because when they wanted to lower the level of the lake, the floodgates were opened, much like Katrina did, and out came the water, washing OUT everything in its path. If you were camped downthere, too bad. If you were hiking down there, too bad.

Did people hang out down there? Yup. Did anyone ever get killed down there. Yup. Whose fault is it?

I understand your situation and hope you have a happy ending to your chapter of this tale.

 

[listenn]

Katrina Hurricane Report from Foamy

Poorness does NOT equate to stupidity.

If you're poor does this mean that you are unable to understand what a floodbasin is? If you are poor does this mean you are unable to pick up and move yourself somewhere else? If you are poor do you HAVE to just sit there and wait?

NO, genious. It does NOT.

Poor people can be really smart. Poor people DO have the ability to see that they are living in an area TEN FEET BELOW SEA LEVEL in an area that for most of geological history has been subject to FLOODING.

Poor people can better themselves and their circumstances. HOWEVER, to do that they have to be willing to ACT on what they know. Not sit and wait, hoping that someone else will take care of them.

I have great sympathy for those who lost it all, families, homes, what have you. BUT I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who KNEW better and stayed.

When I was a kid I lived near a HUGE manmade lake. The back of the lake was lots and lots of rocks, a creek and a neat place to go herping. It was also dangerous because when they wanted to lower the level of the lake, the floodgates were opened, much like Katrina did, and out came the water, washing OUT everything in its path. If you were camped downthere, too bad. If you were hiking down there, too bad.

Did people hang out down there? Yup. Did anyone ever get killed down there. Yup. Whose fault is it?

I understand your situation and hope you have a happy ending to your chapter of this tale.

I wish the happiness to others which need it more than I. Thank you for the thought, but I also wish you would understand many people could not leave. Some people WERE washed from the street as well, trying to flee on foot . . . some pushing strollers, carts and carring all they could.

I agree that those who stayed for malice and malitia . . . well I can not express the disgust I have, nor accurately describe how furious I am. They should not be categorized as anything other then scum and shoud go back to the ocean from wence they came.

You'll enjoy this Katrina Hurricane Report from Foamy.

 

[Wilomn]

Knowledge is valuable. Having the ability to assimilate that knowledge and utilize it are even more valuable.

Those "poor" people, whether you use poor as uneducated or not monitarily flush makes no difference, have had YEARS to change their living situations.

They did not. They stayed.

If and when Galveston floods again, I'll be of the same opinion.

People out here are moving farther and farther out into the hills. Fires are a big deal out here. Some places they move are not able to get fire insurance. Why should I, capitol I, be responsible for paying to rebuild some dumbass' house just because he was too stupid to believe that the hills he's built his house on has a tradition of burning every 40 0r 50 years?

Why should I feel sorry for him?

For me this is what it comes down to.

If I had to walk to Colorado to get a job washing dishes to get my family, or just myself if I were younger, out of a place that was due to be flooded in my lifetime, I would. There is nothing special about me. There is nothing in me that is not in anyone else.

Why did they stay?

They CHOSE to stay. They did NOT make the decision to go elsewhere.

I think something like 80% of the world's population lives within 20 miles of a coastline. All those folks need to think about "next time."

 

[listenn]

Next time

Knowledge is valuable. Having the ability to assimilate that knowledge and utilize it are even more valuable.

Those "poor" people, whether you use poor as uneducated or not monitarily flush makes no difference, have had YEARS to change their living situations.

They did not. They stayed.

If and when Galveston floods again, I'll be of the same opinion.

People out here are moving farther and farther out into the hills. Fires are a big deal out here. Some places they move are not able to get fire insurance. Why should I, capitol I, be responsible for paying to rebuild some dumbass' house just because he was too stupid to believe that the hills he's built his house on has a tradition of burning every 40 0r 50 years?

Why should I feel sorry for him?

For me this is what it comes down to.

If I had to walk to Colorado to get a job washing dishes to get my family, or just myself if I were younger, out of a place that was due to be flooded in my lifetime, I would. There is nothing special about me. There is nothing in me that is not in anyone else.

Why did they stay?

They CHOSE to stay. They did NOT make the decision to go elsewhere.

I think something like 80% of the world's population lives within 20 miles of a coastline. All those folks need to think about "next time."

You live in Los Angeles, right? OK Mr. Next time. When are you going to realize some people COULD NOT leave. Some can not make a choice. Wheather too young, not mentally capable, or for some other reason do not have the ability to make a choice. When your "next time" comes up, will you offer your hand to help those who COULD NOT make the choice to leave? Would you?

 

[Wilomn]

When faced with that decision, yes, I could and would.

I simply give people more, or less depending on your viewpoint, credit than you do.

I am of the firm belief that no one does anything they don't want to. Period. Good, bad, smart or stupid, someone made the choice to be wherever they are. THAT is not my responsibility and I will NOT ASSume it for my own.

With the caveat that we are only speaking of those with the mental wherewithall to make decisions for themselves.

 

[reptilebreeder]

Funny reading how the people in charge at the news organizations, were debating the use of different words, and the effect it would have on people. Like they care! They show what they want to show to make their point of view, which is usually way-lopsided and political. My sister left CA several days ago with the Red Cross to help with the disaster. She was sent to Texas and one of the collection points that took most of the "displaced", "refugees", "evacuees". The news organizations were trying to blow things out of proportion, by saying that the victims were in a guarded lock down, and helpless to do anything. She said there were a bunch of the news cameras lined up behind the bike racks (shooting through the bars) in front of the place so that it looked like everybody was behind bars, or in prison. Sure they are searching everybody who comes in, because they don't want any guns or anything that would make the place unsafe, but they are not in prison, as the news organizations tried to blatantly missrepresent.

 

[listenn]

When faced with that decision, yes, I could and would.

I simply give people more, or less depending on your viewpoint, credit than you do.

I am of the firm belief that no one does anything they don't want to. Period. Good, bad, smart or stupid, someone made the choice to be wherever they are. THAT is not my responsibility and I will NOT ASSume it for my own.

With the caveat that we are only speaking of those with the mental wherewithall to make decisions for themselves.

I'm thrilled and proud you would help, if you could, and very thankful if you have done anything to help, but we're still knocking heads on this whole decision thing. :/

All I was saying is that some people could not leave. Pick a hospital, mental, medical, any hospital. Not 100% of patients that had a choice to leave. Some, if not most, were not capable of leaving of their own free will and some could not make that choice. Infants too young, those not mentally capable, transplant recipients/ donors, ICU patients, are examples of people that for some other reason do not have the ability to make a choice. They were left for others to be responsible for. :/

I wasn't asking you, nor wanting you, to assume responsibility . . . just to please be a little more open-minded about the different situations people are in. They're not all ideal, nor chosen unfortunately. Enough bad has come out of the whole situation as it is. If everyone does a little to help, it's that much more help that is given.

I really appreciate you understanding. A lot of people lost a lot of things and if we can help them find hope . . . it could change their lives, and maybe, just maybe, it could give motivation to those who were letting life pass them by.