An end to competing advertising on this site (Rescinded!)

[dprince]

Hey Rich,

For what it's worth, I also belong to a couple of gecko forums, and none of them have anything like the BOI. As a matter of fact, they refer folks over to this site for that. The BOI is one of the most useful, helpful tools in the reptile internet world, as far as I'm concerned.

I personally kinda like having several different "places" to visit each day. They all have specialties, and they are all serve completely different purposes for me.

I totally understand not wanting to feed the "competition", but honestly, nothing tops the BOI for the very important purpose it serves. Just my 2 cents, humbly submitted.

 

[WebSlave]

If you ever decide to let go of that anger and bitterness, you will, in a sense, transform into a happier human being. People care for you, whether you like it or not, and want you to be happy.

Yeah, perhaps. People DO make damaging mistakes when angry and bitter, don't they? Wouldn't want that to happen, now would I? I could be mistaking peoples intentions and therefore make a serious mistake, hurting them as a result, couldn't I? But would I still be a happier human being afterwards knowing of that damage I caused while being mistakenly angry and bitter? Do I just pretend to everyone that I am happy, all the while not really being so but hoping I appear that way on the outside, or would I truly be happy and therefore brush aside all thoughts of my past actions and hope the people I hurt just forget about them as well? How does that work, exactly? I'm not really inclined to do drugs to just dull the world around me, as I prefer living in harsh reality as much as possible.

And these people who care for me. Did they care for me while being angry and bitter and causing hurt, or did that come afterwards when the damage was done, thinking a big hearty "I'm so sorry!" makes everything now OK?

Forgive and forget and all will be well again? Well, what a short end of the stick that winds up being to the forgiver and the forgetter....

And people want me to be happy now? Boy, THAT's got to be a SHORT list of people..... It's not that I wouldn't like it, I just wouldn't BELIEVE it. At least not from anything but a VERY VERY limited scale.

 

[critical bill]

You must be happy....you must be happy.....you must be happy.

Be happy.

 

[KelliH]

Yeah, perhaps. People DO make damaging mistakes when angry and bitter, don't they? Wouldn't want that to happen, now would I? I could be mistaking peoples intentions and therefore make a serious mistake, hurting them as a result, couldn't I? But would I still be a happier human being afterwards knowing of that damage I caused while being mistakenly angry and bitter? Do I just pretend to everyone that I am happy, all the while not really being so but hoping I appear that way on the outside, or would I truly be happy and therefore brush aside all thoughts of my past actions and hope the people I hurt just forget about them as well? How does that work, exactly? I'm not really inclined to do drugs to just dull the world around me, as I prefer living in harsh reality as much as possible.

No, of course you should not pretend you are happy if you are not. All I was trying to say is that letting go of some of that old anger and hurt, it would be one step towards making you a more content person. It's not about dulling the world around you Rich, it's really about the opposite, it's about focusing on what's really important in your short life and looking deep inside yourself in order to do so. I've come to realize that bitterness, distrust and hate are feelings that are counter-productive to what I want for not only MY life, but for the people in my life. That's all I was getting at.

 

[Jim O]

Rich,

I'm with Kelli on this, not because of this incident but because that's a good way to live life. Forgiveness is a choice that you can make, and the benefit accrues to you mostly because you let go of the anger and the resentment. Resentment is emotional poison and life is way to short to hold on to it. I'm not saying that I am always perfect at letting it go, it's a hard thing to do sometimes, but I try to do my best.

 

[Wilomn]

Yeah, perhaps. People DO make damaging mistakes when angry and bitter, don't they? Wouldn't want that to happen, now would I? I could be mistaking peoples intentions and therefore make a serious mistake, hurting them as a result, couldn't I? But would I still be a happier human being afterwards knowing of that damage I caused while being mistakenly angry and bitter? Do I just pretend to everyone that I am happy, all the while not really being so but hoping I appear that way on the outside, or would I truly be happy and therefore brush aside all thoughts of my past actions and hope the people I hurt just forget about them as well? How does that work, exactly? I'm not really inclined to do drugs to just dull the world around me, as I prefer living in harsh reality as much as possible.

And these people who care for me. Did they care for me while being angry and bitter and causing hurt, or did that come afterwards when the damage was done, thinking a big hearty "I'm so sorry!" makes everything now OK?

Forgive and forget and all will be well again? Well, what a short end of the stick that winds up being to the forgiver and the forgetter....

And people want me to be happy now? Boy, THAT's got to be a SHORT list of people..... It's not that I wouldn't like it, I just wouldn't BELIEVE it. At least not from anything but a VERY VERY limited scale.

Wait, I thought I was the bitter guy on the site.....

What they say is true. It's both good and very difficult. And you have to want to.

I hope you do all of the above, always have.

I don't think you really care what anyone thinks about what you think about anything so the only thing stopping you from letting go must be yourself. If you want to let it go and just see if you get closer to being happy, then do it. You can always grab it up again and be mad. Mad is easy.

They did screwup. Some of the appologies are sincere. That's all that can be done. It's more than some would do.

Good luck no matter which way you go on this one. I know it's not easy to do.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Yeah, perhaps. People DO make damaging mistakes when angry and bitter, don't they? Wouldn't want that to happen, now would I? I could be mistaking peoples intentions and therefore make a serious mistake, hurting them as a result, couldn't I? But would I still be a happier human being afterwards knowing of that damage I caused while being mistakenly angry and bitter? Do I just pretend to everyone that I am happy, all the while not really being so but hoping I appear that way on the outside, or would I truly be happy and therefore brush aside all thoughts of my past actions and hope the people I hurt just forget about them as well? How does that work, exactly? I'm not really inclined to do drugs to just dull the world around me, as I prefer living in harsh reality as much as possible.

Geeze, Rich! Now you are starting to sound like an Archaeologist... always digging stuff up from the past! What is it going to take for you to get past this, Rich? Another 'group hug'? You and I had a very long, candid, and heartfelt talk about this a l-o-n-g time ago, and you said you wanted to 'bury the hatchet' and move on.

Mistakes were openly admitted, and severe, due punishments were administered (and still are, apparently). Sincere apologies have been expressed. Every human being I know has made terrible mistakes that they regret.

I can truly understand why you would be upset if folks were deliberately siphoning members or trashing Fauna (what did you call it... "raping an pillaging'?). I can't speak for any of the other newer websites, but I certainly don't see that on ANY of the sites I frequent. Quite the contrary.

I personally feel that if you and Jeff B. from KS can work out your VERY complex differences, you should be able to move past all this resentment and anger. I agree that you will be a much happier person if you can do this, Rich. An Fauna will benefit from it.

 

[WebSlave]

So is that really how the world works? If I call you names and punch you in the gut then I can turn around and tell you that you will be the better man for forgiving me and forgetting the incident? I wonder how many of you follow your own advice.

Quite frankly, I don't harbor any resentment. I simply harbor distrust and cognizance that not everyone is what they pretend to be. That what they SAY and DO can be two entirely different things. A shedding of naivete, of a sorts.

Sorry, but no. This thread is all about an issue concerning this site that has been ongoing and is now coming to and end. Someone else decided to try to derail this thread with an entirely different, but somewhat related, past issue.

So back on topic, please. What's done is done. All the players know where they stand on that past issue.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Aye, aye, Captain!

 

[E2MacPets]

This happens on every big forum, rich... there are a few sites that have popped up intending to compete with fauna... well good luck. they'll need it.

Our community is not an ethical one, and that includes the people opening up new sites thinking their money will vault them into competition...

I wouldn't stress it.

 

[WebSlave]

This happens on every big forum, rich... there are a few sites that have popped up intending to compete with fauna... well good luck. they'll need it.

Our community is not an ethical one, and that includes the people opening up new sites thinking their money will vault them into competition...

I wouldn't stress it.

Yeah, deep down inside I know you are right. I've seen LOTS of competing sites come and go. Few people realize what it really takes to make a site a survivor these days. Even nearly unlimited funds won't do it. Quite frankly, I am surprised that this site has survived for so long. Been plenty of ups and downs, for certain, and MANY times I have come close to just closing the doors and walking away. Not really sure why I haven't......

But still, I've just grown weary of allowing people to try by using this site to help launch that competition and watching them solicit members from here to go on to their own sites. Some, of course, making claims about how theirs will be better, not realizing that it may just be the things that they are trying to eliminate that may be the reason for success here. It just may be the rawness that some rankle at that brings people here. I know I sometimes wish I could get rid of it, but I tried that route and could see it was not the right road to be on.

Oh well. Surprisingly this change in policy really hasn't kicked up as much fuss as I thought it would. Excepting the little off topic sidetrack, of course. Even those people who I dropped their ads from didn't act much surprised or otherwise greatly resentful.

 

[Jim O]

Rich,

You said in another thread

Just for the record, I am withdrawing my offer of hosting. I have decided to get out of the webhosting business completely.

In the nearly five years I have been doing this, any profit I may have made has been only pennies. Between having to nag people constantly to keep their bills paid and uptodate, having people skip out leaving their account in arrears, people moving their domains and not having the courtesy to let me know, spending time fixing problems (server related, network related, and user generated), as well as just the stress of feeling responsible for keeping someone else's websites up and running, for the roughly $8 a month I charge, it just is not worth it.

So, I'm out..............

To think that I pulled my hosting ads when you made the first post in this thread. LOL. One thing you're right about, it's pennies on the dollar. I'm just trying to break even my multi-domain hosting.

 

[Junkyard]

Rich, this is your site, no need to go into explanations. Every time you make a change you go into explaining why and people on all corners and sides get their panties in a wad, really you need to put your foot down with a big "Because I said So, THATS WHY!!!" Most people here can get along just fine without a reason. You could have simply posted "No more forums advertised on this site, if links go up, they will be taken down. I do not want to advertise my competition."

Oh yeah, it is now Tom, Dick, and Harriette. Turns out, Harry was actually a female.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, this is your site, no need to go into explanations. Every time you make a change you go into explaining why and people on all corners and sides get their panties in a wad, really you need to put your foot down with a big "Because I said So, THATS WHY!!!" Most people here can get along just fine without a reason. You could have simply posted "No more forums advertised on this site, if links go up, they will be taken down. I do not want to advertise my competition."

Oh yeah, it is now Tom, Dick, and Harriette. Turns out, Harry was actually a female.

That's just not the way I do things. Maybe because that was how my father was, and I would rather not be like him.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich,

You said in another thread


To think that I pulled my hosting ads when you made the first post in this thread. LOL. One thing you're right about, it's pennies on the dollar. I'm just trying to break even my multi-domain hosting.

Yeah, man. I had a rather unpleasant experience with one of my ex-clients just the other day, and that was what tore it for me. I'm taking a harder look at what I do and how I spend my time more and more lately. And those things not profitable or rewarding in any other sense are going to go away.

I'm certainly not going to live forever, so why hasten the last day with the stress I put myself through?

 

[Junkyard]

That's just not the way I do things. Maybe because that was how my father was, and I would rather not be like him.

I understand completely. I too will not end up being my father.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Yeah, deep down inside I know you are right. I've seen LOTS of competing sites come and go. Few people realize what it really takes to make a site a survivor these days. Even nearly unlimited funds won't do it. Quite frankly, I am surprised that this site has survived for so long. Been plenty of ups and downs, for certain, and MANY times I have come close to just closing the doors and walking away. Not really sure why I haven't......

Rich,

We all realize what it takes and all the time and headaches you have put into this; for that we are grateful. Having said this, I will also say that you have demonstrated over and over again to be a businessman, and very profficient at that (who else could make a living with corn snakes ).

Those that make it in the world of business and finances know when they have to let go of something before it drags them down. Now as far as your comments ..."Been plenty of ups and downs, for certain, and MANY times I have come close to just closing the doors and walking away. Not really sure why I haven't......". there are two possible explanations that come to mind:

1. It gives you some sort of personal satisfaction or

2. The site was never on the red.

If it satisfies you in any way but you loose money then that's fine, as it's not much different from this expensive hobby most of us have. Now, if it doesn't give you satisfaction but it helps you pay the bills at the end of the month, then it might be just a job that you don't enjoy but you keep anyways just to help with the overall budget. I'm pretty sure many people here can also relate to that.

Best regards.

 

[WebSlave]

1. It gives you some sort of personal satisfaction or

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. How many people with anything they have created that often bites back probably think the same way?

2. The site was never on the red.

Oh yes it has. For quite a few years in the beginning, actually. The setback with James Thornton took a long while to recover from. The headaches involved with webserver crap is something behind the scenes that most people will never know about. Seems I am ALWAYS in some sort of transition with servers and paying for more than I really need. Right now I am paying for five (5) servers, which is a real pain in the pocketbook.

I believe the site is WELL into the black now, but couldn't really say if it has yet paid for the past "red years" or the headaches that are seemingly everlasting.

I guess I keep being forever hopeful that perhaps tomorrow will be better than today or yesterday. "Being better" meaning, I guess that the fun was back into this reptile hobby/business that now seems to be lost. Perhaps it is the fact of my having to see the seamy side of this business for too long and it has clouded my total view of what I thought this should be all about. I would like nothing better than to be able to trust everyone. To know that every word they spoke was the truth as best as they knew it. That everyone was in every way honorable and fair. My real problem is that it wasn't all that long ago that I learned, I mean REALLY learned down to my core, that this is not the case at all.

And no, I am NOT a good businessman at all. I couldn't sell hand warmers to Eskimos. I've just been lucky enough to offer things that people want and they are willing to seek me out, or seek out what I have done, in order to purchase them. I have never wanted to be a businessman at all. It just happened that way, and I try to fumble through the motions I think I'm supposed to do.

All I really wanted to do was to breed my corn snakes and play with websites. I really had no goals in mind at all. People would PAY for cornsnakes and PAY to participate in websites? Sheesh, who'd a thunk it? I sure as hell didn't expect that.

 

[Jim O]

Yeah, man. I had a rather unpleasant experience with one of my ex-clients just the other day, and that was what tore it for me. I'm taking a harder look at what I do and how I spend my time more and more lately. And those things not profitable or rewarding in any other sense are going to go away.

I'm certainly not going to live forever, so why hasten the last day with the stress I put myself through?

I have no issue turning a site "off" if payment is not received. Maybe it helps that I collect rent and deal with this all of the time. Either way my sites are mainly small and I have server capacity that can be used so I'll keep at it for awhile.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Rich,

I've just been lucky enough to offer things that people want and they are willing to seek me out, or seek out what I have done, in order to purchase them.

This is just a personal stance but I strongly believe luck, as people like to define it, does not exist. In my opinion luck = statistics, or what are the odds of something happening. According to Pasteur chance favors only the prepared mind . That's what you were, you were prepared, you took certain deliberate steps, and you were favored with certain outcomes.

I have never wanted to be a businessman at all. It just happened that way, and I try to fumble through the motions I think I'm supposed to do.

It just so happens there's a lot of self-made millionaires that answer in similar terms...Whether you want it or not you have turned into a businessman. A farmer that buys the seed, plows the field, and sells the produce is a businessman also.

All I really wanted to do was to breed my corn snakes and play with websites.

Well, well, well...They say "two out of three ain't bad" what about "two out of two"?

I really had no goals in mind at all.

When I go into a library and look at all the titles that include the word "goals" and how you should have them to succeed in life I just happen to smile. If I had the will and time to write a book the title would be "Leading a goal-less life". Goals are self limiting. They put you blinders and don't let you seize opportunities that show unexpectedly and that might take you one step to the side. Sometimes that step makes all the difference as in "...I took the less traveled by...

Enjoy your Sunday, that's all you need today and probably "a worthy goal.'

Best regards,

A.D.