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Bad Guy Dan Grubb, Problem Customer

I

Isis Reptiles

Contributing Member
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We recently sold an order of frozen pinkie mice to Dan Grubb in Irvine, California. Upon receiving them, he claimed that the pinkies were "discolored" when he received them and "turned to mush" when he thawed them out. These pinkies were fresh and pink when we sent them out. He claimed to have received them in frozen condition, so the problem wasn't a matter of the pinkies thawing out in transit.

We have sold these same pinkies to several other customers, and have had no complaints. We are also using these same pinkies to feed our own hatchlings. We have used several hundred of them and have had no problems with them at all.

We don't want our customers to be unhappy with anything they have purchased from us. While we questioned the validity of his claim that the rodents were no good, we agreed to take them back and give a full refund provided that we received them back in the same condition we sent them out, and asked that they be packaged for the return as we had packaged them to send them out.

We received them back today, improperly packaged, the pinkies warm and turned to mush, and definitely not in the same condition we sent them out. They are unusable and will have to go into the trash. We emailed him about the condition in which we received the shipment and the poor packing job and he emailed us back with the lame excuse that he "never shipped anything frozen and didn't know how to do it." No offer to waive his refund, not even an apology.

We went ahead and gave him a full refund, even though the agreement was that the refund would be issued on the condition that we received the order back in the same condition we sent it out. He didn't keep his end of the bargain, and we would have been in our right to deny the refund. However, we don't need this person trashing our reputation over a $115 transaction. So now we are out both the $115 and the 350 frozen pinkie mice.

Needless to say, Dan Grubb is now on our "do not do business" list. We will never do business with him again. Beware.

Isis Madec
Isis Reptiles
 
Isis, I don't think this is a BOI issue. This is a customer service issue.

A couple of questions though:

1- Why would you want them back? Were you intending on sending them to someone else?
2- How could he ship them back to you in the same condition as you sent them out when his complaint was that they turned to mush?

Actually expecting customers to purchase dry ice and repack frozen rodents is a lot IMO. Also, IMO, if you're going to refund his money do it with a smile. Why blow the goodwill you're getting with good customer service by upsetting your customer even more. So now your out the mice, the sale and still have an unhappy customer.
 
kmurphy said:
Isis, I don't think this is a BOI issue. This is a customer service issue.

A couple of questions though:

1- Why would you want them back? Were you intending on sending them to someone else?
2- How could he ship them back to you in the same condition as you sent them out when his complaint was that they turned to mush?

Actually expecting customers to purchase dry ice and repack frozen rodents is a lot IMO. Also, IMO, if you're going to refund his money do it with a smile. Why blow the goodwill you're getting with good customer service by upsetting your customer even more. So now your out the mice, the sale and still have an unhappy customer.
Click to expand...

Very well said!
 
From my perspective you did the right thing, other than demanding that the pinks be returned and possibly posting a bad guy thread on them.
Sometimes you just have to take your customers word and do the right thing.
I feel the right way to have handled it would have been to simply refund the money or replace the bad shipment.
I know that is how at least one rodent supplier handles it. When a shipment was delayed by the carrier for 5 days and arrived here thawed, warmed and rotting all it took was my notifying the supplier and they sent out a replacement shipment, no questions asked, via another carrier.

If I may ask, how do you keep your rodent shipments frozen in transit?
 
While I don't doubt that your situation is frustrating for you, I have to say....in the very few times that I have had issues with frozen feeders, I have never been asked to send them back, I have always gotten replacements on my word. Honestly, I would have no idea how to do so either, and wonder if the cost for me to send them back to arrive still frozen would be prohibitive? Instead of having him send them back for a refund, perhaps you could have offered replacement pinks, which would cost you less than the monetary refund, I would imagine?
 
I agree. While your other customers may have not had any problems with the pinkies, it's still a tall order to conclude that the customer was lying to you or otherwise wrong in some way. It's your right to choose not to deal with him, but I don't see how he could have done anything wrong.

Plus, as someone else stated, were you planning on reselling the pinkies? Why did you want them returned in the first place? That's something I would have a big problem with.
 
*should read, I don't see how you can just assume he did anything wrong. There's always the possibility that he could have.
 
What makes him a bad guy?

I'm not sure where to get DRY ICE or if I even can. The fact that he sent them back seems to show he didn't want them for some reason and proof is on you to prove he was trying to rip you off. Maybe it was his fault they turned to mush but can you prove it? If you can then you have a case. (Whose dime was it on to send them back?)

No one likes to loose money but things happen. (Part of doing business I guess) I think you should have held your tongue and not posted this here maybe in another part of this forum asking your best course of action instead.

Have you emailed him to show him this POST? I think he has a right to know you have posted this about him (tried to give him a bad name) and allow him to answer back. If you have not or do not want to inform him about this post I think that is pretty crappy on your part.
 
Did you ask for any pics? He might not have known what good pinkies look like, and then, would have sent back perfectly useable pinkies, that went bad during the return shipping.

Dave
 
Kingetula said:
The fact that he sent them back seems to show he didn't want them for some reason and proof is on you to prove he was trying to rip you off.
Click to expand...

A very valid point, Scott. :)

If he was simply out to get the money (or free feeders), I don't believe he would have even gone through the effort of sending them back at all. I would think that he must have really not wanted them, thought there was something wrong with them, to go through that much trouble for a refund. :shrug01:
 
Isis Reptiles said:
Upon receiving them, he claimed that the pinkies were "discolored" when he received them and "turned to mush" when he thawed them out.

we agreed to take them back and give a full refund provided that we received them back in the same condition we sent them out, and asked that they be packaged for the return as we had packaged them to send them out.
Click to expand...

I had to re-read your post...

Why would you agree to take them back? Actually, he told you he thawed them out and they turned to mush so why would you ask or even expect him to return them the same way you sent them out? The damage was done.


Isis Reptiles said:
We received them back today, improperly packaged, the pinkies warm and turned to mush, and definitely not in the same condition we sent them out. They are unusable and will have to go into the trash.


Isis Madec
Isis Reptiles
Click to expand...

He stated this from the get go. They were already mush when he had them and he told you they were unusable before you told him to send them back. Again asking the average Joe to get dry Ice is a bit much IMO.

He probably thawed them out wrong and figured he could blame you but as the seller it is hard t prove (especially stuff sent by mail) I don't believe the customer is always right because those days are gone. Too many damn thieves out there trying to get one over (sellers and buyers).

You did the right thing but I guess now that I think about it (Bad Guy) probably could have just been worded as (Be careful of... unless you can prove he was the cause of the mush mice and I don't think you can since you gave him a refund)
 
I picke up some pinkies at the Daytona show from well known mice beeder. (Just over a monh ago) I thought i od save me money than having to payor shippng so I stocked up.

I set these out for 20 minutes and they are trash! Nasty damn things like mush and colored like they got the heck beat out of them. Not my fault, they were nice and hard when I got them but once thawed they were crap!


So again who knows what happened here it's hard tosay who is at fault.

This is why I just builta mouse rack. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117924 Fresh pinkies every time and and at a great price! To hell with frozen mice!
 
meant to adhis iure in my last post
 

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Dan Grubb's side of the story.

I must first say that I would like to have known that Mike Madec of Isis Reptiles was unhappy with me to my face instead of broadcasting that I am a Bad Guy over the internet for all to see and ruin my good reputation. I am not a bad guy and their are many people who will support that I am a good guy and do my best to make my customers happy. Bottom line is that these pinks did not work for me. The blackish bellies would burst when I tried to scent them on lizards. I work with alterna and I must scent lizards. As far as shipping the pinks back, Mike is correct, I did not wrap the pinks in freezer paper, I thought that was just filling. Also the cardboard box he used was ripped during shipping but did not effect the styrafoam box. So I had to use a box that was slightly smaller. A strip of 1inch of the foam box was exposed but I did not think that would effect the pinks since they were in styrafoam box with ice packs. This was my first time shipping mice back. I have never had a problem before and this is not a usual thing for me. I was very sorry about the shape that the pinks arrived in. It was an extremely hot day and that might have also added to the problem. This was the text of my last email.
"I apologize for the errors on shipping the package. I have never shipped anything frozen before. Your box was ripped during shipping the first time so I did not use it again. I appreciate your refund and will be sure to tell others how kind you were when working with me. I am sorry they did not work.

Dan

That seems like an appology to me. It looks like Mike is refunding my money and I appreciate him refunding I just do not appreciate him degrading my name on this forum. I am not like Mike and would not post a personal problem on the internet. I feel this is a childish way to do business. I am bummed that this deal did not go well. I was not trying to get free pinks, I was just not happy with what was shipped to me. In the future I will not buy pinks from Mike and Isis Reptiles because in my personal opinion the pinks he sold would not work for me. Maybe I am picky, they may work for someone else. For all of you who read this you can email me or call me and I will be glad to defend myself in this claim of me baing a bad guy. I am sorry that this ended this way.

Dan Grubb
 
Thanks for posting Dan. I agree that this shouldn't have been posted here. For what it's worth I doubt it will have any affect on your reputation. To me it's a strange condition for a frozen rodent seller to stipulate for receiving a refund - "Returned in the same condition".

Good luck with the refund.
 
Isis Reptiles said:
We received them back today, improperly packaged, the pinkies warm and turned to mush, and definitely not in the same condition we sent them out. They are unusable and will have to go into the trash. We emailed him about the condition in which we received the shipment and the poor packing job and he emailed us back with the lame excuse that he "never shipped anything frozen and didn't know how to do it." No offer to waive his refund, not even an apology.
Click to expand...

Dan, like other posters have mention, I think this thread was completely unwarranted and will have no impact on your reputation.

I would, however, like to see the original poster come back and address the question of why the pinks had to be returned. I'm especially curious of the section bolded above. What in the world else would you be doing with these pinkies except throwing them in the trash? And why would Dan have offered to waive his refund? Many people have experienced bad shipments of mice from various vendors. Due to poor packaging, thawing out during transit, dirty mice, whatever - the reputable vendors simply refund the money or send a replacement shipment.
 
No worries Dan.

Did the OP contact you and tell you about this post or how did you find it? Did you pay the shipping back or did they also pay you back for that as well?
 
I paid the shipping back.

But I did thaw out 15 pinks to see if I could use them. I needed to feed my babies, that did not work out so well. Since I tried to feed some I did not mind shipping them back. I even said that Mike could reduce the fee since I used 15 pinks. Also I was made aware of this DEFAMATION by an email from a friend. Mike did not make me aware that he was planning to attempt to ruin my name with future customers.

Dan
 
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