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Bad Guy JWI (Joe Imperatori) selling Sri Lankan stars

jayefbe said:
I want to see vet reports posted up here. All those parasites do sound bad, but two weeks elapsed between the tortoise arriving and the tortoise going to the vet.

Both sides really need to post a lot more info. It sounds like the buyer is withholding more information at this point.
Click to expand...


Why?

I wouldn't/don't immediately take an animal to a vets until it's clear that it's required or out of our comfort zone for treating it ourselves.

It would have taken a while for you to put any issues such as reluctance to eat and loose stools down to something other than the stress of shipping and a new environment.

We would have caught and treated this on our own, no vets required, would that mean we would have have no grounds for complaint? I'd still be seriously annoyed and concerned abouts getting a Captive Bred animal with such a paresite load, or in fact ANY paresite load.
 
Oh, I posted the word document just as I would post any other document. I don't know why it can not open. What format should i post the vet bills and summary in. One is handwritten so I'm having my girlfriend scan them and then they will be posted before the days end.
 
I'm sorry but this is my first tortoise to keep indoor and I know nothing about treating a sick tortoise. After spending $700 for a tortoise I was worried about him and did not want him to die.
 
You can take a screen shot and post that, but I have never figured out how to do that! LOL!

Unless someone gives you a better option, scan it into a word doc, then copy and paste it into a post.
 
To do a screen shot of something on the net just hold alt the push print scrn and then paste into a document. These are all printed sheets and my girlfriend just left for work and will scan them for me. I will post them once she has scanned them for me. I don't have all the paperwork, but the one that says he has girardia is handwritten and I will see how it comes out. I have to go to the vet later to get some more info from them and will see if they can put it all together for me.
 
Jeremy, take a blank cd or a flash drive with you and if they have it in their computer, they can just transfer it. Then you won't even have to scan anything except the handwritten doc, but even that info will probably be in the inputted notes. ;)
 
I just got off the phone with the vet and asked them to type up each visit and diagnosis for me in chronological order. I should have that either today or tomorrow and will post it up asap to back up my claim.
 
Hello. Here is the email on 7/22/09 where Jermey contacted me to buy more tortoises. He hopes I am not mad at him because he knows what he has done to me.

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NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to [email protected].
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

B]Joe,
I hope that you and I can set our differences aside and move on with things. I have helped my little one recover and he is fine now. I'm wanting to get another animal from you and begin raising them together. If you want I'm going to be speaking with other breeders about starting a web site dedicated to Sri Lankan stars to educate people on these beautiful animals. If you are not still mad at me and would like to just forget about our misfortunes then please email me and let me get a new animal from you. If you want, make me a deal on two of them.[/B]
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I can gladly post every other email but I noticed that Jeremy did not "deny" anything that I stated is 100% true and correct. Best wishes, Joe...
 
I forgot to include to copy and paste the date with the 7/22/09 for proof.

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:00 AM
Subject: Message about: Sri Lankan Star Tortoises- Cream of the Crop! PICS


> *************
> NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to [email protected].
> NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
> *************
>
> Joe,
> I hope that you and I can set our differences aside and move on with things. I have helped my little one recover and he is fine now. I'm wanting to get another animal from you and begin raising them together. If you want I'm going to be speaking with other breeders about starting a web site dedicated to Sri Lankan stars to educate people on these beautiful animals. If you are not still mad at me and would like to just forget about our misfortunes then please email me and let me get a new animal from you. If you want, make me a deal on two of them.
>
> ----------------------------------------------
 
Hello again everyone. Very simply, I sold Jeremy a tortoise that was in my care for over 3 months. Jeremy's tortoise and the siblings were all doing fine in my care. All of the siblings have been sold to other people now. None of them every got any kind of treatment other than food and heat. The only person that has had any problem with one of my baby Sri Lankan's is Jeremy. His tortoise is still alive and well 5 months after the sale. Jeremy had mentioned to me that he had used the same enclosure and same food bowl that he used for the Indian Star Tortoise he murdered back in March 09'. Not a good thing to mix species of tortoises or any other animal if not cleaned properly. Of course, Jeremy will say he cleaned it properly I expect no different. There is no way of knowing at this point. After all of this trouble Jeremy now wants a free tortoise? Jeremy, I have got a great book that I want you to read, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Best wishes, Joe...
 
Joe I said:
Hello again everyone. Very simply, I sold Jeremy a tortoise that was in my care for over 3 months. Jeremy's tortoise and the siblings were all doing fine in my care. All of the siblings have been sold to other people now. None of them every got any kind of treatment other than food and heat. The only person that has had any problem with one of my baby Sri Lankan's is Jeremy. His tortoise is still alive and well 5 months after the sale. Jeremy had mentioned to me that he had used the same enclosure and same food bowl that he used for the Indian Star Tortoise he murdered back in March 09'. Not a good thing to mix species of tortoises or any other animal if not cleaned properly. Of course, Jeremy will say he cleaned it properly I expect no different. There is no way of knowing at this point. After all of this trouble Jeremy now wants a free tortoise? Jeremy, I have got a great book that I want you to read, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Best wishes, Joe...
Click to expand...
Couple things here Joe. First, can you provide proof that Jeremy "murdered" this other tortoise and explain what it died of and how you know this? Do you have an email convo or anything else that we can have a look at that would suggest what you are claiming here?

Also, Jeremy's animal is okay 5 months later because he spent $500 at the vet's office. Have you had any fecal of your torts run lately? Just for the sake of argument, you could really put this matter to rest by having a fecal run and posting the results with a vet statement here since you are the breeder and your reputation is at stake here.

I am a bit perplexed as to why Jeremy would want another Tort from you after having spent so much money getting this one healthy. Maybe he can explain?
 
Sorry, I just reread your first post. I still don't see how that tortoise's death relates to these parasite issues. Can you explain? That is a huge leap to suggest that the new tort contracted parasites from an enclosure that housed a tort that died of overheating.
 
Hello Donna. Yes, I agree with you. Why would Jeremy want to purchase another tortoise from me if he claims my tortoises have parasites? Makes no sense at all, right? Unless there was nothing wrong and he wanted another one for free. He claimed he had some friends at the LSU Vet. School. I am sure he could come up with some paperwork, if you know what I mean. With regards to him killing his other tortoise, I was commenting that Jeremy does not know what he is doing when it comes to tortoises or husbandry. The other tortoise could have had the parasites he mentioned and the parasites could have been living in the enclosure and have infected Jeremy's new tortoise. Take care, Joe...
 
He claims he spent a lot of money getting it better, but he's yet to post any sort of proof. Was this even a licensed herp vet, or a dog and cat vet? He hasn't even bothered to copy and paste any of the emails either. He mentioned taking Joe to court, how does he expect to do that with no proof in hand?

I know it's easy to want to side with the person who feels they were wronged, but until this guy shows us any shred of proof backing up his claims I'm inclined to believe Joe. Especially since the OP went back and offered to buy more animals and mentioned wanting to work on a forum with Joe. It doesn't appear that Joe was such a horrible guy until he refused to sell the OP any more animals. Given what it sounds like he went through, I don't blame him.
 
Thank You Shadera. If you noticed Jeremy never denied any claims I made on the time line. When we talk about the "herp industry" as a whole. Breeders/ Dealers do not give a warranty with their animals. The industry standard is a live/ healthy arrival guarantee. I have never even seen someone say 1 week here. If I am wrong please let me know. Thanks, Joe...
 
Hello again Shadera. I wanted to post an email on 3/30/09 from Jeremy. You asked was it a "Licensed Herp. Vet." The answer is no. Below is the email which states Jeremy took it to the LSU Vet. School and he took it to the "area" that only deals with reptiles. Remember these people are in "School" so that they can "learn" to get their Licenses. Read below.

----- Original Message -----
From: jeremy deville
To: Joe & Yohusmany Imperatori
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Ceylon is sick


i brought him to the lsu vet school and they sent me to the area that deals with only reptiles. I'm not sure either what happened but I just hope I can get it taken care of. I feel so horrible like I'm not taking care of my animals correctly. I'm sure he will get better. He is eating fine and moving around fine, just pooping funny. I will keep you updated on the issue.
 
Joe I said:
Thank You Shadera. If you noticed Jeremy never denied any claims I made on the time line. When we talk about the "herp industry" as a whole. Breeders/ Dealers do not give a warranty with their animals. The industry standard is a live/ healthy arrival guarantee. I have never even seen someone say 1 week here. If I am wrong please let me know. Thanks, Joe...
Click to expand...

But they do! I have bought from several who offer 4 day to two week guarantees.

Now what exactly do you mean by HEALTHY live arrival? Doesn't that imply that if something turns up that can arguably be traced back to you, even if it is two weeks in to the buyers possession of the animal, that you would at least work with the buyer on a solution?

I am trying to be objective here, and the OP does need to produce documentation. However, dissing it before it comes is suspect to me, and the nature of those particular parasites is not unfamiliar to me. If the onset of symptoms is that strong that quickly, and YES two weeks from exposure to onset is fast based on my experience, seems to point back to your collection, Joe. Are you opposed to getting a fecal done of your torts just to be sure? If I were in your position, selling high dollar animals and my reputation could be on the line, I would get a fecal done. It is not that expensive unless you end up having to treat your collection. ;)
 
Joe I said:
Thank You Shadera. If you noticed Jeremy never denied any claims I made on the time line. When we talk about the "herp industry" as a whole. Breeders/ Dealers do not give a warranty with their animals. The industry standard is a live/ healthy arrival guarantee. I have never even seen someone say 1 week here. If I am wrong please let me know. Thanks, Joe...
Click to expand...

Some people do offer longer, some people don't. It's up to the seller what they want to offer the buyer. I didn't see any terms in your ads, so did he not even ask you what your terms were before he sent the money? I don't think the seller should be held responsible for voluntary testing the buyer had done though. He admits he was paranoid and that the animal was acting fine otherwise. I've got nothing against vet students, some of those teaching schools do a very good job. But I can also see how if those brand new doctors aren't being monitored closely they could go crazy running tests and giving meds that may not actually be needed, I've got a human doctor pal fresh out of school who actually ordered an h pylori test on me for stomach issues when those just aren't done any more. There's plenty of archaic info out there in the school medical texts, with all the new stuff constantly being discovered.

You don't have to try and impress me though, Joe, I think you're a decent guy. I'd buy one of those torts if I could afford it. :yesnod:

Any way you could post the other emails though? Especially anything regarding terms of sale or those vet visits?
 
Sorry, let me clarify. Once exposed, it takes a while for an animal to show symptoms, especially strong symptoms, and two weeks seems a bit quick for symptoms to appear. It is possible, but just as possible that the infection was already present in the tort. Joe, you could easily rule it out with a $50 fecal.
 
I've got a human doctor pal fresh out of school who actually ordered an h pylori test on me for stomach issues when those just aren't done any more.
Click to expand...
Well, they are, actually. A Teaching/Research/practicing doctor at one of the most prestigious schools in the country, Baylor, had one run on my mother, and it was positive. She was treated and years of stomach issues were resolved in one month of the right meds.

But you have a point. A student Doctor could go testing crazy. However, Jeremy stated that the tort developed symptoms, didn't he?
 
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