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Bad Guy Deans Reptiles

that makes sence. because if they were to say "yea it's IBD for sure your animals are most likely screwed" then if every single other animal was put down and tested and none tested positive then I would guess that the vet could possibly be liable for the non infected animals?
 
maybe the lab my clinic uses is different, they actually list a diagnosis (if one is found). for example, i sent out a cytology on one of my own personal dogs for cancer, and the result came back as interpretation of results: neoplastic lymphatic cells present in high numbers per high powered field (microscope). diagnosis, advanced stage lymphoma. so maybe its just the lab we use, gives a diagnosis on samples they can diagnose without any differential diganosis. ibd is tough to get a 100% diagnosis on, anyway, because, inclusion bodies seen on a biopsy or cytology sample, could mean any cells with any kind of inclusion bodies invaded in them. so, with ibd in question, and so much unknown about it, that is probably why the wrote it up the way they did, incase legal matters arose
 
I only use Northwest Zoopath for any pathology needed around here. Dr. Garner is one of the best in the nation, and they do most of the testing for the Zoo facilities across the nation. All my reports give a pretty cut and dry, yes/no answers too. Could just be the difference in the way places are ran as for the wording. But the inclusions are mentioned in multiple organs, which is VERY consistent with IBD. I'm sure most Vets would read that lab report as IBD conclusive.

I didn't catch this report when I last posted. Sorry to hear this terrible news has been more or less confirmed too. It's a devastating thing to go through. I've been fortunate, but I've seen 3 good people go through it and lose it all due to one animal.

I'd start making a semi sterile environment if I was you. Latex gloves, zero cross contamination, lots of hand sanitizer, maybe even an overcoat for each room if you have multiple rooms, spray the overcoat with Lysol frequently and in between animals. No guarantees any of that works, just precautionary. But it is still possible that it hasn't spread to everyone else. Your Pythons will achieve a much faster onset of symptoms then Boa will too once infected. FYI.

Sorry once again for what you are going through. :(
Rick
 
Thanks Rick... yea I'm still hoping that they all turn out ok... and I have been using a LOT of sanitizer and spraying Lysol and cleaning tongs in between feedings, etc... So I'm trying and hoping
 
The original breeder of the BCL bos was a Micah Denton. I have tried to reach him but I have had no luck. I have never had any neurological issues with any snakes that I have had or I am sure someone at the reptiles shows would have noticed or sadi something to me. DAND is there at every show. i am trying to do my part to make sure that this did not come from a snake in my collection, which there are very few of. I agree that the quarintine of this animal on my part was not 6 months but I have seen many other breeders and wholesellars sell animals faster or as fast as I have. If I had a lot of bad animals I am sure DAND, Dave, would have notice at the show sometime in the past 4 years. I am not trying to defend or lighten this situation I am hopeing that my animals are all well. I am trying to contact the original breeder to see if I can get test from other babies or the parents because as it looks now this IBD came from the original breeder and not either of our collections. I do truely hope that everything goes well for everyone involved. I have also been doing good quarantinemeasures. I bring all new animals home and isolate them from others to see if there are any issues. IBD is a very crazy diease and since there is not much known about it it sucks to figure out what to do. In most cases the animals show signs of IBD like regurgitation, loss of muscle contol like not being able to upright themselves, and rapid weight loss. What is weird is that the BCL did not have any sign until the day it died. Most of the cases I have read about show that the animals have these signs or symptoms for a short period of time. The BCL had seizures that are like what they do when they have tumors and are trying to bite them out of them selves. This is a case that show how IBD is unpredictable and can come on quickly. I have emaile Dr. Jacobson of the University of Flordia to see what his take is on this situation.
 
What happened to the fact that you said that you were not bringing in any other animals??
 
I do believe that you are referring to the situation with reptilemike. I still have friends that want animals and I used to get good deals from people like him and others. I get better deals for some friends of mine than they get offered from others. I inquired about the burms because I have a good friend that is looking for a green burm for the green burm he already has. In that situation I would have gone and pick up the animal and taken it straight to someone elses house. Regardless of what you all think about me I do still have a deep enjoyment from my animals and the animals I have been around.
 
burmguy420 said:
The original breeder of the BCL bos was a Micah Denton. I have tried to reach him but I have had no luck. I have never had any neurological issues with any snakes that I have had or I am sure someone at the reptiles shows would have noticed or sadi something to me. DAND is there at every show. i am trying to do my part to make sure that this did not come from a snake in my collection, which there are very few of. I agree that the quarintine of this animal on my part was not 6 months but I have seen many other breeders and wholesellars sell animals faster or as fast as I have. If I had a lot of bad animals I am sure DAND, Dave, would have notice at the show sometime in the past 4 years. I am not trying to defend or lighten this situation I am hopeing that my animals are all well. I am trying to contact the original breeder to see if I can get test from other babies or the parents because as it looks now this IBD came from the original breeder and not either of our collections. I do truely hope that everything goes well for everyone involved. I have also been doing good quarantinemeasures. I bring all new animals home and isolate them from others to see if there are any issues. IBD is a very crazy diease and since there is not much known about it it sucks to figure out what to do. In most cases the animals show signs of IBD like regurgitation, loss of muscle contol like not being able to upright themselves, and rapid weight loss. What is weird is that the BCL did not have any sign until the day it died. Most of the cases I have read about show that the animals have these signs or symptoms for a short period of time. The BCL had seizures that are like what they do when they have tumors and are trying to bite them out of them selves. This is a case that show how IBD is unpredictable and can come on quickly. I have emaile Dr. Jacobson of the University of Flordia to see what his take is on this situation.
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right there is what I'm asking about... not the thing with reptile mike... even though if your friend was looking into an animals THEY should have contacted him and not you... if there is any IBD in your collection and you bring those animals into your home, you could be handing over an animal to your friends that is sick and dies
 
burmguy420 said:
I do believe that you are referring to the situation with reptilemike. I still have friends that want animals and I used to get good deals from people like him and others. I get better deals for some friends of mine than they get offered from others. I inquired about the burms because I have a good friend that is looking for a green burm for the green burm he already has. In that situation I would have gone and pick up the animal and taken it straight to someone elses house. Regardless of what you all think about me I do still have a deep enjoyment from my animals and the animals I have been around.
Click to expand...

How can you get any type of enjoyment from an animal when you turn around and sell them as soon as you get them???

I get enjoyment from my animals... I keep them as pets... not flips....
 
That is what I do when I get new animals. I wasn't stateing that I bring new animals in right now. I can contact someone and get a price and someone else could contact the same person and get a different price. That is why I contacted because on CL I have meet most of the people selling higher end snakes so I figured that there was a good chance that I new the person selling the burms. I am not nor will not bring any more animals in or out of my home. I don't see the harm in going and picking up a snake or animal for a friend an delivering it too them. Everyone who knows me knows about this whole situation.
 
I don't get rid of every animal I get. this is why I don't like posting on Fauna please just read what I right and take it for what it is.
 
From Post #112 11-19-2009, 07:42 AM
burmguy420 said:
I currenlyt have 1 animal. Since this whole bad guy thing stared I have given all but one of my animals away to friends.

I reralize that I will never ne able to get back to what I really wanted to do but I guess that is for the better since I have sub par animals.
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burmguy420 said:
i am trying to do my part to make sure that this did not come from a snake in my collection, which there are very few of.
Click to expand...

So you are still acquiring animals. :NoNo:

burmguy420 said:
I agree that the quarintine of this animal on my part was not 6 months but I have seen many other breeders and wholesellars sell animals faster or as fast as I have.
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Good lord, you must have the mentality of a four year old. Just because someone else does something wrong doesn't mean you should. :NoNo:

burmguy420 said:
If I had a lot of bad animals I am sure DAND, Dave, would have notice at the show sometime in the past 4 years.
Click to expand...

You have and I have noticed and informed many.

burmguy420 said:
I am not trying to defend or lighten this situation I am hopeing that my animals are all well.
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Gee, mighty nice of you to have concern for yourself. I am hoping that Heather's and Ashley's animals are all well or any other poor unsuspecting person you have sold animals to. Have you contacted the other people you have sold animals to and your (supposed) friends who you gave all your other animals to and informed them an animal in your possession died of suspect circumstances?

burmguy420 said:
I have also been doing good quarantinemeasures. I bring all new animals home and isolate them from others to see if there are any issues.
Click to expand...

Again I'll say you should not be dealing with reptiles period. I'll even take it a step further and say that you should not deal with any living animals period! :NoNo:

burmguy420 said:
I have emaile Dr. Jacobson of the University of Flordia to see what his take is on this situation.
Click to expand...

A local psychologist may do you better to consult with. :notallthe

Also, I'm still waiting for the truthful answer to the dyslexia question.
 
I do see the harm in doing that considering you have gotten a bad reputation and I know that it has been spread around CL as well as the other forums... No offense, but after all the crap that has happened, if you were my "friend" I deff. would not trust you to pick up an animal for me... I would rather pay the extra $25 or $50 or heck... even a heck of a lot more to get a good animal straight from a GOOD breeder who has never had any problems with their animals and follow GOOD, PROPER measures with their animals...
 
I just read thru this entire thread. It took me a few days, actually. Ryan, a fellow veterinary technician is on the right track about the difference in labs...personally I agree with Richard, Northwest Zoopath is truly the best of the best. I tend to agree with the fact that IBD wasn't mentioned as a definative diagnosis, because this has been such an ongoing problem, and the veterinarian may have picked up on the fact that it has the potential to go to court (as do a LOT of cases like this)...and IBD is such a "grey-area" disease as it is...that lab was probably just covering their @$$es when they said the findings are "suggestive of Inclusion Body Disease"

hhmoore said:
I doubt that you will...at least based on the reports that I have seen (human and animal). "Consistent with" and "suggestive of" seem to be the phrases of choice in interpretation. As an example my lab report showed findings "consistent with" Lyme Disease...but didn't say definitively that I had Lyme Disease.
I wonder if it might be because listing a pure diagnosis creates some sort of liability or malpractice issue if said diagnosis turns out to be incorrect?
Click to expand...

:iagree: Posted as I was typing the above... I think Harald is barking up the right tree. :)
 
I was waiting on you to chime in with your nonsense Dave. Took you long enough. If you have notice that I have sick and crappy animals than whay has it taken you 4 years to start telling people? You still live at home and I have seen you cause problems with a lot of people because you think that you are better than everyone and you sell bugs and collect government checks. I do care what happens to the others animals and that is why I have kept in contact and not just run away.
 
What other forums? The CL ads where all posted by the same person just to let you know. I have a lot more good than bad.
 
burmguy420 said:
I was waiting on you to chime in with your nonsense Dave. Took you long enough. If you have notice that I have sick and crappy animals than whay has it taken you 4 years to start telling people? You still live at home and I have seen you cause problems with a lot of people because you think that you are better than everyone and you sell bugs and collect government checks. I do care what happens to the others animals and that is why I have kept in contact and not just run away.
Click to expand...

Any status on my refund? or Heathers? or anyone elses? and if you want to help your "cause" maybe post pics of your animals? cages? quarantine areas? keeping your stories straight... In all honesty, yea, you called yesterday and it doesn't seem like you are trying to "run away" *btw, blocking a number from someone who is trained to hack, does not hide your number ;)* but at the same time... You really didn't say much that was helpful... You kind of said the same things over and over again... and didn't seem to be interested in taking any advice from me when I told you PROPER quarantine and such to take............
 
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