As far as 20,000 animals, is there an exact inventory to decide whether or not 8 employees can do the work needed to care for so many animals? Jeez they can be counting crickets for all we know "sarcasm"
WHAT is with all the crazy math? You and everyone else knows this is rediculous. Some groups of animals are cared for concurrently (200 curlytails in a cage only requires one person to dump in crickets, possibly refill water dish, and go), and other require 2 minutes/week (open tarantula tub, add cricket, go), etc. This is a great way to build mountains out of molehills... this "crazy math" is very misleading to people who may not know better....
Now on with the regularly scheduled programme -
Well I thought about addressing this issue in my previous post but I thought people would be able to do the math themselves and see that this excuse is nothing more that just that and really holds no water so I guess here we go. If let’s say that out of those 20,000+ animals half were what would be considered “feeder animals” (you know crickets, and rodents and such). That would leave 10,000+ “pet grade animals”. So then at at 2 min/animal/day the amount of man hours required to care for these animals would still be 333.33. At 1 min it would be 166.67 and at 30sec it would be 83.33 man hours/day to care for all those animals. So if all those employees were to work twice as much as normal then they might be able to cover all the needs of those animal. Would anyone like to continue to grasp at straws and attempt to say all those employees were working 80 hour weeks?LOL. Now remember that his is only for the amount of time needed to care for the “pet grade” animals but lets not forget that “feeder grade” animals are still “animals” and therefore will still require some care because otherwise it’s still called animal abuse. Unless again anyone would like to grasp at straws an try to tell us that animal abuse of pet grade animals is a different kind of animal abuse when it involves feeder grade animals. Right, just like Bill Clinton’s famous oral sex is not sex right?LOL
What crazy math? Hahaha. You mean elementary school addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division?LOL! This isn’t stats were talking about here. Yes some animals get taken care of concurrently but in the end each of those animals still takes some time to care for. So yes 200 curlytails in a cage might take only a few seconds to feed once every few days but hopefully every once in a while you’re gonna be taking all your curlytails out to clean the enclosure from all the accumulated excrement and every coati and Kinkajou is gonna take several minutes a day just to prep it’s food and a few more to clean the feces out of it’s cage and if it’s sick well then were then were no longer talking about a few minutes here and there but specialized extended daily care for that one individual animal. So although you’re right about some animals taking a lot less time to care for and some will be able to be taken care of concurrently the opposite is also truth and it all tends to even out in the end hence the reason for the “crazy math” which is nothing more than taking an average (this may not me elementary school math but I’m pretty sure it was covered in middle school). Sorry if it confuses you but there’s nothing difficult or misleading about this. It’s all very simple really.
While i agree peta and such are in it for there own agenda regardless of the facts , but what excuse does US global exotics have for the condition of the animals?
Exactly!
I was very surprised to see so many people coming to the defense of anyone keeping that number of animals with so few employees. To pretend that someone can come into a business and stage so much abuse without an owner/employee/client noticing anything out of the ordinary? Well seems pretty funny, and would further the argument that this is probably business as usual!
I have always been turned off when I have seen photos of the import crates coming in jammed full of reptiles, which will then endup in deli-cups stacked one after another. I also have heard horror stories about importers facilities and have seen first hand some of the crap that they bring to shows, etc... I think in our reptile community there is some sort of blind-eye to the animal abuse involved in the importing of reptiles! Even to the point of how they are housed and cared for when they arrive, especially if they come in sick and injured! Sick imports... Freezer? Throw aways? As long as it brings down the price of "insert reptile name here" we can just let the rest suffer!
Again, exactly!
Ok lets take Your math and explain to me where peta or whom ever has these 20,000 animals has got the man power, the facilities, the feed, the cages, heating, lights, care info, all on a moments notice to go in seize these animals, take them to where ever this imaginary place is that has all of the above. Prove to me that pets is doing all they can to take care of each and every one of these animals and give them everything imaginable that they need. Better yet go to the petakillsanimals.com site and explain to me how in all the years they have been taking in money that they had to kill so many animals versus the amount they saved. Sorry but peta does not get my vote, my sympathy or the sweat off my ---
So what you’re saying is that it’s PETA’s and the government’s fault Jansen had all these animals in a warehouse without the appropriate resources to care for them? You’re right in that the city, county, and state probably don’t have the resources to care for these animals properly although it has already been explained previously on this thread what exactly happens to confiscated animals but regardless the government and PETA didn’t bring all these animals together they were just left holding the bag when the allegations came forth. Whatever extra abuse and neglect is now being perpetrated on all those confiscated animals still falls on Jansen’s shoulders not the government. They’re just having to do the best they can with the situation at hand. This is like saying that it’s the cops fault you got a speeding ticket which then made you late to work and got you written up when in reality it was your fault for not waking early enough and then consciously taking the choice to speed that got you the ticket and the trouble at work.
Secondly I don’t need to go to this website or any other, that is not the point of this thread. This thread is about animal abuse at U.S. Global not about PETA’s nut job liberal agenda. I also don’t need to go to this website because I already know the kind of people PETA attracts I know they’re not just a bunch of nut jobs but also tend to be ignorant and hypocritical to boot but again this is neither here nor there since in my last post I specifically said I wasn’t taking into consideration the PETA factor (allegations, photos, etc.) so why make an issue out of them when you don’t have to to be able to see what’s going on here.
If u are asking me im also against peta and want there tax exemp statues gone ./ as for the animals if there receiving sub par care there people should be held accountable.
Never said i was on the side of PETA im on the side of responsible animal lovers and such.
I completely agree with this.
I just hope the judge just goes by facts and not just petas spew. if animal abuse was done the ones responsible should fined and locked up , if not hopefully everything gets cleared up.
US Global has NOT been convicted of animal abuse as of yet therefore I believe our system says innocent until PROVEN guilty.
Now lets look at where this is happening this happened in small town, conservative, republican, pro-business Texas therefore it would make sense to assume that in order for a judge or any other high profile public figure to have made it to where they’re at they would have to be part of that kind of a community and hold the same beliefs and ethics as those people. So think about it. This is probably just about the worst place to push a liberal nut job agenda and hope to get something done with just smoke and mirrors and B.S. PETA might be nuttier than bag of trail mix but they sure as hell aren't stupid and yet look at what’s going on. This seems to tell me that there’s a lot more truth to these allegations than we all want to believe otherwise this would have never gotten this far.
Here’s what disturbs me the most according to Jansen’s own words (which for some reason he chose to send here through a 3rd party instead of coming here on his own.)
"At this moment in time we have had a ruling by a city judge that ALL 27000 animals were treated cruelly and have as a result been given to various "humane" groups for care until the appeal process is complete."
"Based on this fact and based on the fact we followed industry guidelines
(which the judge acknowledged in his ruling and which he decided was
insufficient)"
So a judge has already ruled that animals were being treated cruelly and most importantly that the industry standard was not good enough( which I think a lot of us can agree with). Think about it, this place had to be generating tons of revenue not just for the town but for the state so really I would see this kind of a judge being more inclined to overlook the issues at hand than taking up the liberal agenda torch, running with it, keeping the place shut and screwing the town and the state out of property and sales taxes from a multimillion dollar business, especially in this economy this sure sounds like this guy felt compelled to so something given the evidence he received even when the decision was effectively negatively going to affect his constituents. So obviously something must have been very very bad at U.S. Global for this kind of a judge to have not only decided to uphold the decision of the government and NGOs to go in and seize all the animals but to effectively set policy by saying that the industry standard just wasn’t cutting it, kinda of a liberal move on this guys part considering where’s he’s coming from don't you thin?
So to some extent the judge has already said that something isn’t right so it’s just a matter of time before another judge or a jury gets to see the evidence and decides the same. Had ALL this been B.S. the judge would have thrown out the indictment all together or partially instead of upholding it completely. Ultimately again yes the case is being appealed but the case was already tried decided and ruled on and if it goes to another judge or to a jury those people are gonna see the same thing as the original judge and any competent prosecutor is gonna do the same as I did and crunch the numbers and figure out the exact same thing. There just weren’t enough resources to care for all those animals which lead to neglect
You are all right in that all the facts have not come out yet but the fact that the judge didn’t just throw out the case and passed a liberal ruling on it indicate that something was going on
I’m not gonna sit here and argue with everyone regarding all the what if(s) regarding this situation. Ultimately simple logic tells you that the more what if(s) you add to the situation the less likely that particular situation becomes, and simple logic and common sense tells you that often times the simplest explanation tends to be the truth. Some of you have already made up your mind regarding this situation and have chosen to close your eyes regarding what’s going on and no amount of logic, evidence, or court rulings are going to dissuade you. I’m sure when the court rules against U.S. Global again there will still be people arguing and making up excuses and conspiracy theories and in denial regarding what was going on here. For those of you in this wagon I’m neither trying to poke and get a rise out of you nor trying to persuade you to see things my way. You want to sit there with your eyes closed shaking your head, blaming PETA, the government, and my “crazy math” till the cows come home you’re totally entitled to do so. My post was for all those level headed, open-minded people who are trying to get through all the muck surrounding this situation, so they can get a better idea of what’s really going on here
So once you get done with the what if PETA is the devil’s emissary (who knows they might just be. LOL), and what if the media is portraying this the wrong way and what if the humane society and the local state and federal governments are all in on this, and what if it’s the entire country that’s trying to come after us and our hobby/industry at which point we start sounding like a bunch of paranoid nut jobs ourselves perhaps we should all consider the single, very simple and saddening “what if” it’s all true and what if the “Industry Standard” which we all hold ourselves to isn’t much of one to begin with?
