Bad Guy Chameleon Keeper - Nonna and Marty

[ScreamersONLY]

The story is in the email I sent to them.

Nonna,

Customer service is the main goal for any business. You're selling live animals as your product, yet the qaulity is poor. Not only am I disappointed with recieving an unhealthy specimen, but on top of that, you refuse a refund after the 5 day period is over when I have every right to return him. I recieved him on a thursday (exactly one week ago) and I wanted to return him on monday. That is the third day of having him.

You told me over the phone that you will not be home on tuesday, so I waited until tuesday to ship for wednesday arrival. Which you agreed on.

There was a very simple mistake through UPS shipping. One of the handlers requested to ship the box back to my house, because they were convinced that UPS does not ship reptiles.

Now, that being said, this is UPS's fault.


This animal was stuck in a box for 28 hours, looks the same when he came out of the box. I didn't want to ship him today (thursday Jan. 21st 2010) because he has gone through a lot of stress through shipping. So I kindly stated it's a better idea to ship him next week. I mentioned that this is now past your 5 day health and satisfaction guarantee. You then replied "yeeeeaaaa" as in "duh" and I took offense to that.

I am blaming you on behalf of not recognizing this as a simple mistake of the handler's responsibility. The animal would have been returned to you on tuesday if you were home to recieve him. Maybe that UPS handler person who requested on shipping the box back would have not been working that day, therefore you would have recieved your animal on your 5th day of your 5 day guarantee.

I stated that this really isn't my fault, and that the animal you sold me is not in good health. After I said "this isn't my fault" you instigated and said "well do you think it's mine?" and I said "yes, i do." You sold me an unhealthy animal, what do you expect me to say? Then you say "whatever I'll talk to you later". And HUNG UP on me.

I cannot believe how you treated this situation. You're very unprofessional and rude how you hung up on me and said "whatever, I'll talk to you later".

If you care about an animal's health, you wouldn't of shipped him in the first place considering his weakened condition. This specimen can barely make a grip. His feces were extremely runny and had plenty of mucus. Not to mention red urate which is NOT a healthy sign.

I am forced to take action and file a complaint, and I will certainly let the community know about my experience, not to mention faunaclassifieds BOI.

I've decided to keep the weak animal. The impression that I get, is that you wanted to sell this animal fast and make your money back. Well, you got what you wanted. Unfortunately, I am not a person who cannot tell a weak chameleon from a strong and healthy one. This will effect your business, sorry that you're stuck with a dishonest sale on your conscience. Good day.

~ Brian Aschenbach

P.S.

This is NOT an industry to make fast money. When you deal with live animals, you must care for them. These are living creatures. Sadly, I was fooled by your nice website and good price on the 10 month old Nosy Faly. ($450.00 plus $50.00 shipping). I've wanted a male Nosy Faly for so long, that this sale got the best of me. Atleast this animal is in good hands. I am taking him to the vet as soon as possible.

 

[rjarosek]

Is this for the Wild Caught Nosy Faly they have listed on the site for $450. There terms do not take into consideration WC or CB so I assume it would apply to both?

Have them been notified about this thread and sent a link?

Regardless , they were notified of the problem with in the time period of the warranty. Looks like they agreed to take it back. Regardless of UPS errors or any them not being home , etc. It should not matter when it is shipped back , just that the problem was identified and agreed on and arrangements had been made to send it back.

I hope Chameleon Keeper will come on and explain their side.

Do you have any email or proof of the claim being made with them? Please post any communications you have in writing.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

i dont understand how email is proof? cant one simply write up anything and say it's email???

This is the CB specimen they claim to have purchased from Pam 5 months or so ago.

They're not refunding my money. If they are not refunding my money, I am going to keep him.

I told them I am putting it on this BOI.

The first Nosy Faly they had up for sale was listed on King Snake. I bought it fast. After that, they had another for sale up on King Snake (the WC specimen)

Have you dealt with them before? Do you know them personally Ryan?

I don't respect Nonna after I was hung up on. It's not like I got out of line in any way.

 

[rjarosek]

i dont understand how email is proof? cant one simply write up anything and say it's email???

Have you dealt with them before? Do you know them personally Ryan?

When making such a claim it is important to remember Emails establish a time-line and provide the details of conversations. Both sides of it. Without any type of written proof it falls into the your word against theirs. Both parties should have copies of the emails , so if one is modified the truth will come out. It just helps to substantiate your claim with as much information you can provide.

I have not had any dealings with the Chameleon Keepers or know them at all. I know you , but as you will find on the BOI time after time there are always two sides of the story. Letting everyone gets a chance to see the entire story will help everyone in the long run. When others decide to do business with Chameleon Keepers and read this , they will know what they are getting into.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

ahh true. my question is Ryan, how can I get people to believe that the emails i copy and paste here are legit? i mean, any person could easily re-write and say thats what she said you know what i mean....

is there some sort of way to print out an email that is impossible to tamper with or anything such as that? otherwise, printing out an email is pointless unless you get the other party to agree that, that is the true email. which defeats the purpose of the email because i totally got into a bad situation where i didnt have time to ship the animal.

what sort of people act like this... if the time is up, there is no excuse.no returns. this lady Nonna might as well have said "it's your problem now, im keeping the 500 bucks buddy " i feel so screwed... i have the ultimate excuse lol, the UPS handler made a simple mistake. now that i can prove.

uugh whatever, im just going to do what i can to let people know what type of customer service there is. and 5 day health and satisfaction guarantee is a tiny amount of time anyways. too bad, i guess i'll have to man up and accept that i came to a loss. atleast i learned to never buy from Nonna and Marty ever again, and i'll def. let others know what type of people they're and etc. etc. etc. etc.

thanks for explaing things Ryan,

~ Brian Aschenbach

 

[Jt80]

ahh true. my question is Ryan, how can I get people to believe that the emails i copy and paste here are legit? i mean, any person could easily re-write and say thats what she said you know what i mean....

is there some sort of way to print out an email that is impossible to tamper with or anything such as that? otherwise, printing out an email is pointless unless you get the other party to agree that, that is the true email. which defeats the purpose of the email because i totally got into a bad situation where i didnt have time to ship the animal.

what sort of people act like this... if the time is up, there is no excuse.no returns. this lady Nonna might as well have said "it's your problem now, im keeping the 500 bucks buddy " i feel so screwed... i have the ultimate excuse lol, the UPS handler made a simple mistake. now that i can prove.

uugh whatever, im just going to do what i can to let people know what type of customer service there is. and 5 day health and satisfaction guarantee is a tiny amount of time anyways. too bad, i guess i'll have to man up and accept that i came to a loss. atleast i learned to never buy from Nonna and Marty ever again, and i'll def. let others know what type of people they're and etc. etc. etc. etc.

thanks for explaing things Ryan,

~ Brian Aschenbach

Why are you making this so difficult? Just copy and paste the emails.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

Because its pointless and most of the b/s was over the phone. I sent them the email, if they want to get in on here they can. I think its pointless to argue over this, just wanted to complain and alert people that chameleonkeeper (Nonna and Marty) are NOT good people and honestly don't sound too educated. Im done with this, peace.

BTW - She accused me of "torturing the male" because the Faly had a glance at my male Ambilobe and the Ambilobe flamed up hardcore while the Faly didn't do anything.

I simply asked her if he's been bred before. Some males don't breed, and I did NOT want a male that does NOT breed. Normally when a male fires up towards another male, he also goes after the ladies. This is all in my experience.

Keeping it short, she believes seeing a male for 45 seconds once after an over night shipment can do serious damage which is NOT true.

There are numerous breeders out there who display their adult males at reptile expo's without visual barriers for that purpose. Think about it, adult males fired-up glancing at eachother for 4-5 hours.

A quick 45 second moment cannot and will not cause an animal to get seriously weak and cause his poop to be very runny with mucus, and red urate that could possibly be blood? Maybe something is irritated up there, who knows!



Here is the email I recieved :

Briann,
I need you to send me a picture of your set-up for the faley. You told us you were exposing him to another male and he wasn't firing up. He just got off the plane and you were torturing him. He was to rest and not have added stress. He was in perfect health when we sent him to you. Now you want to send back a tortured male. Stress kills chameleons. It takes 2 weeks for a chameleon to get acclamated and to be left alone for that time. No handling and do not to show to other males. You need patience. After stressing him out
it's no wonder that he has funny stool. Stress kills chameleons. No handling for two weeks. Looking forward to see his proper setup. You cannot espect us to be responsible for his improper care.


Nonna


Again, I didn't show him any longer than 45 seconds. I understand that the animal needs to settle. This occured literally as I took him out of the tiny container. The container they packed him in was way too small for him, i understand that a chameleon should be secured while shipping, but certainly not crammed. His spikes were against the top for crying outloud.

I agree on NO handling. I agree on letting him get settled in his brand new territory. The set-up pictures I sent her never got a response back. I'm guessing because my set-up is ideal. My set-ups are identical to Screameleons!

I was rather bothered that she had no idea what a drip system was... She sprays them with the hose outside. Not sure how many people do that everyday, but is tap water everyday acceptable??? I let the bad stuff evaporate or I boil the water I use for 30 minutes...

I asked her over the phone what do you supplement him with, and she changed the subject.

Overall, I'll never be calling these people again. I think it's a joke how after every email it says "god bless you"... im an atheist, but geeze, thats just pushing it... are you really trying to sound like "people with high morals" or whatever...

My message: I got screwed over, I hope you don't make the same mistake.

 

[LauraB]

Did they send you photos of the cham prior to the sale? Could you post a photo of him now?

I think I would try to communicate with Pam R. about the validity of their claim that it was CB from them 5 months ago, especially in light of the WC Faly at their site.

I also noticed they spelled "Veiled" incorrectly at their site and twice referred to CB as "captive bread". As petty as it may sound, that sends up a red flag to me.

I've been keeping chams for years; never heard of these people. And no, IMO, a 45-second visual of another male shouldn't stress him enough to cause a serious decline in health. As for water, I always use distilled for my misting systems.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

I dont think its the WC male. He's still up for sale. The two Faly look totally different anyways. My guy has more white and less blue. Tha WC doesnt have much blue which i dont desire to add to any sort of breeding stock.

unfortunately, their was a couple shipments of Faly that looked different from what Screameleons brought in. Screameleons Faly had a lot more blue than anything, and they also had clean whites...

anyways, yeah, i can post up a picture. right now, im just letting him chill.

he glady eats silkworms and he is already cup trained to eat crickets. which is great in my opinion. i would still love to know how they were supplementing him! knowing what the specimen was on as far as supplementing, is crucial.

i am thinking he wasnt getting enough of something... wish i knew! im going to do my best to get this guy healthy. maybe he'll start to show more blues and whites! wish me luck

 

[Omnomnami]

Good luck getting him healthy, I really hope he gets better.

Best of luck!
-Nichole

 

[rjarosek]

Did they send you photos of the cham prior to the sale? Could you post a photo of him now?

I think I would try to communicate with Pam R. about the validity of their claim that it was CB from them 5 months ago, especially in light of the WC Faly at their site.

I also noticed they spelled "Veiled" incorrectly at their site and twice referred to CB as "captive bread". As petty as it may sound, that sends up a red flag to me.

I've been keeping chams for years; never heard of these people. And no, IMO, a 45-second visual of another male shouldn't stress him enough to cause a serious decline in health. As for water, I always use distilled for my misting systems.

Funny you mentioned the inconsistencies on their site. I was reviewing them as well and their husbandry information is not accurate. I noticed the misspellings. This to me is a red flag as well.

I am going to send them an email with a link to this thread. I would like to hear an explanation.

 

[rjarosek]

i am thinking he wasnt getting enough of something... wish i knew! im going to do my best to get this guy healthy. maybe he'll start to show more blues and whites! wish me luck

You wont need much luck. You are very knowledgeable and good to your chameleons , I am sure he will turn around and be fine. From the sound of it he is lucky to be in your care.

I sent an email via the ChameleonKeeper.com website and informed them of this thread. They do need to come on here any explain the situation. I guess we wait and see.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

Thanks Ryan, good people right here folks!

 

[jlexotics]

Sorry about the problems your having. Just wanted to throw my dealings with Marty in there. I have had no problems with him. He happens to be local and has extremely clean cages, healthy animals, and has been very helpful. Much of my stock has come from Marty, some of the nicest animals I've ever seen! I will continue to purchase from Chameleon Keeper and plan to later this week. I see alot of web sites, ads, ect... that have incorrect spelling, wrong wording, the list goes on. Spell check doesn't do it all but it doesn't always reflect on the owners. Infact many times I'll e-mail the owners when I come across this kind of stuff and they are very happy to learn about their mistakes and promptly change them.

Marty and Nonna in my experience are very nice, honest people who really care about their animals. There is always two sides of every story and I don't know the facts nor care to get involved. With all the knocking on these two I felt I needed to let people know my dealings with them.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

Sorry about the problems your having. Just wanted to throw my dealings with Marty in there. I have had no problems with him. He happens to be local and has extremely clean cages, healthy animals, and has been very helpful. Much of my stock has come from Marty, some of the nicest animals I've ever seen! I will continue to purchase from Chameleon Keeper and plan to later this week. I see alot of web sites, ads, ect... that have incorrect spelling, wrong wording, the list goes on. Spell check doesn't do it all but it doesn't always reflect on the owners. Infact many times I'll e-mail the owners when I come across this kind of stuff and they are very happy to learn about their mistakes and promptly change them.

Marty and Nonna in my experience are very nice, honest people who really care about their animals. There is always two sides of every story and I don't know the facts nor care to get involved. With all the knocking on these two I felt I needed to let people know my dealings with them.

Will you be so kind to ask them to call me?

I tried calling them twice today and once a couple days ago.

I sent a friendly email stating why I am still upset.

My 5 day guarantee was shortended due to them. The day I wanted to ship the Faly back was a day they couldn't accept him.

I stated them "if you're a business, you should have all 5 business days available to recieve him" and if not "add an extra day due to being it's your fault"

and UPS'd handler made a horrible mistake sending it back! leaving a note on the box stating "no live reptiles" or whatever... really sucks that, that happened, but they still don't give me the benefit of the doubt when they took a day off the guarantee and still have not added an extra day. and then the weekend came so what is there to do now?

i am going to try to her again. I honestly liked Nonna at first. I would bet my life that I would end up respecting her if she could just give me the respect of responding. I wasn't rude to her in any way...

 

[Omnomnami]

Wow that's horrible that they're not contacting you...for goodness sake, pick up the phone and make your customer happy! People read this and it will give them a bad reputation. You would think they want to clear this matter up for that purpose.

Again, I'm really sorry this happened to you. I would press phone calls on them like no other. An unhealthy animal in not to be taken lightly!

Good luck

-Nichole

 

[rjarosek]

Marty has contacted me via my email address. He is having problems logging onto the site. (Password issue) I directed him to the password reset page.

He is trying to come here to tell their side , hopefully he will be able to get into the site soon.

 

[ScreamersONLY]

if i continued calling them it wouldnt be mature.

i'd really love to resolve this problem, they have lovely animals and from what i remember, i really liked them until this problem with Nonna hanging up on me for being honest to her. It's how I feel about the situation and in the end, i am the person who has to pay for vet bills plus taking extra time and effort to help an unhealthy animal.

if you pay good money for an animal, it should arrive in perfect condition. great start to make it easier for your customer. besides, an unhealthy animal is in no state to be shipped.

also, i wanted to hold onto the animal for longer, just because of the problem with UPS. this animal was shipped once, then "almost again". i did not want to ship him again soon, so i was planning on waiting a little longer... but then, the refund is out fo the question....... this just is not fair for me (the buyer)

 

[ScreamersONLY]

i got a Long term captive WC from screameleons sunday (jan 24th) in the NY whtie plains reptile expo. this Nosy Faly is sooo strong, and it's grip literally pinches me. It's colors are nice and light.

the animal i recieved doesnt show resting colors. it shows colors as if it is stressed. this tells me it was stressed to begin with prior to arriving at my door.

screameleon's animal spent a good amount of time going from VA to NY, and then from NY to NJ. not to mention, it had a few hour wait at the expo because i couldnt make it early.

this animal is still very colorful, doesnt show any dark colors and is extremely strong. this is what i expect, when i pay good money for an animal. just my two cents. i can post pictures if you guys are interested...

 

[ScreamersONLY]

I am still looking foward to hearing from either Nonna or Marty. I'd rather hear it from Nonna since I was the one she hung up on...