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-   -   Is there a black king snake that is not a Mexican king? (https://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=730857)

tmermie 07-18-2020 08:40 AM

Is there a black king snake that is not a Mexican king?
 
OK folks hereís the deal:
My very first snake that I acquired was in 1998 (yes Iím old) and was a kingsnake. He was mostly solid black with a white/creamy belly and some light speckling on his sides (if I remember correctly itís been a long time and Iíd need to dig up some photos of him). At that time in my herp life I had never heard of a Mexican king snake.
Now I see them everywhere and theyíre beautiful but I donít think they necessarily look like my guy.

So my question is this: is there a king snake that looks similar to a Mexican black king but is not a Mexican black king?

I thought I had uncovered one a while back doing a Google search but canít find it now.

Iíll try to dig up some photos of my guy but theyíre pretty buried. I appreciate any and all responses.

Thank you for your time.

snowgyre 07-18-2020 09:56 AM

Mexican kings and black kings that are found in the United States are the same species, Lampropeltis nigra. They used to be L. getula nigra until the taxonomy fully split them from L. getula. The black kingsnake actually has a decently large range in North America, and they can be quite variable in pattern. This is why common names suck, haha. I bet you had a black king.

tmermie 07-18-2020 10:33 AM

Thank u!
 
I was beginning to suspect as much but back in my day you know ole 1998 I never heard of a Mexican King (until recently) so hence my confusion thank you for clearing it up.

Vaseel was great I really miss him. My first snake was a great experience and probably instilled for me my love of colubrids- though these days Iím more into ratsnake than kings. But they will always remain my first love.

Thanks again!

jlassiter 09-29-2020 01:58 AM

There is also a melanistic [i]Lampropeltis leonis[\i]

Zincubus 10-11-2020 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlassiter (Post 2226811)
There is also a melanistic [i]Lampropeltis leonis[\i]



Is that a relative of Black Milk snake
Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae ?


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elena 10-11-2020 11:41 AM

All kings and milks are in the same genus, and therefor closely related. Leonis, known as the Thayer's, Variable or Nuevo Leone Kingsnake, is a distinct species from milksnakes, including the Black Milksnake. In addition, all Black Milksnakes eventually become black, but are not born that way. Melanistic leonis are born black, but it is not the normal appearance of species, but rather a recessive trait (morph).

netviper 08-14-2021 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowgyre (Post 2214416)
Mexican kings and black kings that are found in the United States are the same species, Lampropeltis nigra. They used to be L. getula nigra until the taxonomy fully split them from L. getula. The black kingsnake actually has a decently large range in North America, and they can be quite variable in pattern. This is why common names suck, haha. I bet you had a black king.

This is not accurate. Mexican black kings are nigrita and the black kings are nigra. Their ranges do not touch and they do not have a large range compared to their congeners. The OP sounds like they are describing nigra. Captively produced MBK typically are a solid dark brown/black including their ventrals.

BoaKeeper 03-23-2022 01:24 AM

It sounds to me like you had a melanistic speckled kingsnake.

Socratic Monologue 03-23-2022 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netviper (Post 2269152)
This is not accurate. Mexican black kings are nigrita and the black kings are nigra. Their ranges do not touch and they do not have a large range compared to their congeners. The OP sounds like they are describing nigra. Captively produced MBK typically are a solid dark brown/black including their ventrals.

Nope, @Snowgyre's comments are correct. There are no longer subspecies in the getula complex. The paper that restores the species is here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ge_In_Taxonomy

This sort of taxonomic reorganization is very common lately as molecular phylogenetics enables the cleaning up of past shortcomings in evaluating evolutionary relationships.

Great resource for taxonomy information is here:

https://reptile-database.reptarium.c...species=getula

https://reptile-database.reptarium.c...&species=nigra


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