A Guide to a Successful Transaction

Ok, I'm not claiming to know it all, so I am depending on the communities wealth of knowledge to create an all-in-one guide that may help in reducing the number reptile casualties, unneccessary Bad Guy threads, and any extra heat that "we" don't need as exotic pet owners.

I would like to keep this guide clean without any arguments, flaming, or sidebar/off topic discussions, but hey, I can't twist your arm. If you have any helpful links from existing threads or tips, please post them. The topics I would like to cover are:




I know many pages can be intimidating, so I will continue to update this post with URL's that are posted as sort of an index. If you have something new/good to add or you wanna do an awesome write-up, please create a post below or a new thread and I will link it in the index above. If something is incorrect or outdated, please PM and I will correct it ASAP.

As in accordance with the rules, please don't make this about a specific person or reference any for sale ad's. I am also dedicating all my good karma to this thread (as soon as it replenishes ) and those that choose to help.

This is solely opinion based, so please consider that when developing your own practices and responsibilities. "This is what worked for me..."

Thanks.

Items that should be addressed prior to shipping:

Here are a few questions that should be asked by the buyer before purchasing a snake.

* Who do you plan to ship through?
As it stands now, there are a select few carriers that will ship live reptiles. The most popular is FedEx or ShipYourReptile (SYR). FedEx has a process for certification in which the shipper has to put together a test package and ship it to FedEx for a structural integrity test. After a few weeks, most will be certified and it's fairly easy. The process on how to get certified is above in the index.

SYR is considered a third party shipper. Their information can be found here. Anybody can use SYR as long as they are in good standing with the company.

UPS no longer allows live snake shipments from the average Joe. I have heard some "big breeders" can but I am not sure. My point is, be cautious if someone is shipping UPS. They may or may not be in the wrong. Here is UPS's Live Animal shipping policy:
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re...nimals.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=live+reptiles

USPS Live animal policy:
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_007.htm


* Do you have insulated boxes to ship with along with appropriate heat/cold pack?

Each reptile is different, so the use of a hot and cold pack is at the descretion of the buyer and shipper. Hot Hands and other "personal heaters" are USUALLY not appropriate. They get too hot, too quick and don't stay hot long enough. Many snakes have died with the use of handwarmers, although they may be appropriate in some situations. The heat and cool pack should be taped to the bottom of the top sheet of insulation, inside the box where the animal is, only upward of it. (It was brought to my attention that this may not apply to all reptiles/feeders)

All boxes should be insulated. This is not just for the sake of temps. This will also keep your box and pet from being crushed in the event of a shipping mishap.

FedEx - How to Pack:
http://fedex.com/downloads/shared/packagingtips/howtopack.pdf

SYR Packing Procedure:
http://www.shipyourreptiles.com/en/get_help/get_help_shipping_standards/#question-23


* What day do you plan to ship? These are the days I can receive...

Very important questions to ask. Ask about signature confirmation too! You might think about walking away from the door for a minute while you are waiting on your new beauty to arrive. You sit on the toilet and hear *KNOCK* *KNOCK*. You may think to yourself, "Ah they'll just leave her on the porch and I'll be right out there to get her." Wrong, if signature confirmation was selected by the buyer... she goes right back on the truck for a TBD amount of time and you have to go get her. Signature confirmation is not a bad thing. It lets the seller know his product didn't sit on the hot porch all day!!

If you are shipping out, I recommend waiting until the latest point in the day to drop her off for shipping. DO NOT call for a pick up, please. My last snake was picked up in the AM on a hot Dallas, TX day and was cooking on the truck all day before reaching the time that I normally drop off. Extra stress won't help!!

I think the industry standard is Overnight - Priority through FedEx. This is typically an early arrival around 10:30 am, HOWEVER, there is a small disclaimer about remote areas and if you like watching tracking numbers all day, you'll sometimes see the red letters indicating you of weather delays. I would expect to take the whole day off and hope for the best. I have also shipped to a buyers place of work at their request. Just make sure they are trustworthy and the means to keep the snake on heat.


* Weather!!

Check the zip's!! Whether buyer or shipper, you should know the weather in both areas. If you have followed my advice so far, the shipper should be dropping off late and she should be arriving early. This leaves us in the cold of the night so no matter how much you wanna look at the high temp, it's the LOW that matters. Don't be an optimist when it comes to shipping temps.

If the buyer and shipper can't agree on when to ship, either move on or come to an agreement on where the warranty lies if a mishap happens. If the seller swears by his methods, and you feel differently, either make it clear that you are doing things his way and the guarantee is on him or MOVE ON. If you persuade the seller to take different measures, it will come back to you when the defication hits the oscillation!

The red line. If you have read the "How to Pack" links above, you should know how to operate a heat pack. It is activated by oxygen so let it breath with the red line visible. That is the vent and it needs to breath to heat. I, personally, still like to tape only three sides so that air can reach the back of the heat pack too, just in case the red line happens to be printed on the wrong side. Probably never the case, but my preference.


* BOI review

Every buyer and seller should be ran/searched through the Board of Inquiry (BOI) first. Trust me, it's a lot easier to search for them now than it is to post a Bad Guy thread later. You have a very useful tool on your hand and letting it go to waste is your own fault. It's also for good stuff too! Don't forget about the good guy that did you right

Post an inquiry if no one has posted on them before. There's nothing wrong with asking and if someone does get upset on an inquiry, it's probably not worth pursuing.

Search the crap out of buyers too! The last thing any of us need is a dishonest person or an impatient buyer putting a bad guy thread up on us. This is why so many people are brutal in the BOI, you don't know who to trust. If you are gonna make a major sale and care about your rep, I think it's worth the 10-15 minutes to learn about your buyers character.


* Document

Take screen shots of ads, download the ad pictures, save and store all emails and private messages. If you end up having a problem down the road, these can come in handy.

Each reptile is different, so the use of a hot and cold pack is at the descretion of the buyer and shipper. Hot Hands and other "personal heaters" are not appropriate. AT ALL. They get too hot, too quick and don't stay hot long enough. The heat and cool pack should always be taped to the bottom of the top sheet of insulation, inside the box where the animal is, only upward of it.

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I disagree with this portion. While the "non standard" packs might not be appropriate for many situations, they are quite suitable for others. As a shipper - the person guaranteeing the animal in question - I choose the best option, based on the conditions en route, the type of animals I am shipping, and my experience. Rarely do I put the matter up for discussion; and if a customer were to insist on something I didn't agree with (after I explained why I wasn't going to do it,) I would process a refund without a second thought.
Also, if taping the heat pack to the top is the way it should ALWAYS be done, I do it wrong a lot of the time...care to explain your rationale?

hhmoore said:

I disagree with this portion. While the "non standard" packs might not be appropriate for many situations, they are quite suitable for others. As a shipper - the person guaranteeing the animal in question - I choose the best option, based on the conditions en route, the type of animals I am shipping, and my experience. Rarely do I put the matter up for discussion; and if a customer were to insist on something I didn't agree with (after I explained why I wasn't going to do it,) I would process a refund without a second thought.
Also, if taping the heat pack to the top is the way it should ALWAYS be done, I do it wrong a lot of the time...care to explain your rationale?

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That's what FedEx and SYR say's to do. I've had a snake unable to escape the heat pack and torn her nose up. If handled like the package is suppose to, it should be able to maintain a reasonable distance. Please, if you have something to add, add it.

Focal X said:

Ok, I'm not claiming to know it all,...

This is solely opinion based, so please consider that when developing your own practices and responsibilities. "This is what worked for me..."

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I'll be the first to admit that many of the people using handwarmers and other small heat packs aren't doing so as the result of an informed decision or practical experience...but to say that they should never be used is no better.
I've used them for shipping colubrids, when I think a standard heat pack is too much; I've used them when shipping from cool (not cold) areas to warm; and probably in a few other situations. I just happen to be of the opinion that one should consider the outcome before deciding something is automatically wrong. Obviously, it's a problem if the animal is too hot, or too cold....but that can happen with 40hr packs, too. Is it worth being critical of a shipper using one of those other types of packs, if the animal arrives in an acceptable temperature range & in good condition?

Additional links to consider...

Shipping: What You Need To Know
Shipping Nonvenomous Reptiles
Quarantine Procedures
Nix Mite Treatment

TripleMoonsExotic said:

Additional links to consider...

Shipping: What You Need To Know
Shipping Nonvenomous Reptiles
Quarantine Procedures
Nix Mite Treatment

Click to expand...

Thanks Stephanie!! That's really useful stuff and looks like a lot of hard work put into it

Thanks HHMoore! Those are the different angles and perspectives I was hoping to take from this.

Thanks!!

Common courtesies:

If for some reason you can't ship when you agreed to ship or pay when you agreed to pay, inform the other party.

If something goes wrong, and it does not appear intentional, notify your seller and see if he/she will make it right prior to initiating a Bad Guy thread.

If something goes wrong, notify promptly, don't keep it to yourself and then contact the seller a month later for a refund.

Both buyers and sellers, remember that how you say something can be just as important as what you say. If you are loud and accusatory whether or not it was the fault of the other party, the other party is not likely to try to work things out.
Similarly, if you are quiet and courteous the other party may do something to help even if the issues was not of their doing.

If you derive a significant amount of income through advertising on this site, be a part of it by purchasing a membership, taking a moment to help others who have questions in the general forums, etc.

Receipt of item(s) and what to do in case of a casualty:

Here are a few tips that I have learned:

* If possible, video tape the unpacking process. This will help alleviate any doubt of how the animal arrived. Try to capture as much as possible; i.e., the condition of the animal (dead/lethargic), check for mites/physical damage, improper packaging. This can come in handy if the pet "got in that condition under your care."

* If you are the seller and you are tracking the shipment, I would contact the party after receipt of the pet if you have not heard from them. I would like to address the problem ASAP rather than two weeks down the road.

* If you are the buyer and you have a problem, immediately contact the seller. If the animal needs immediate vet care, relay this to the seller and see where they stand. Some sellers will void any warranty in some situations.

* Immediately quarantine the snake. I made the mistake once of unpacking a new arrival in my snake room and she ended up being sick. Luckily, it did not spread. Remember, the snake is stressed from shipping so some quiet, readjusting time is needed. Although practices vary, I like to give at least a week of uninterupted rest with the occassional peek for a potty check.

* DOA. I have luckily never had one but from experiences that I have read on here, freezing the body is an option that can buy you more time for additional photos requested by the seller. (Do not freeze the body if you want a necropsy (freezing destroys tissues/cells rupture), please use the fridge and put the animal in a ziplock/air tight container if possible. - AbsoluteApril) Even with a dead snake, I would still practice tight quarantine procedures.

* Don't forget to leave feedback! If you are happy with your purchase and feel comfortable closing the deal, leave a review for future inquiries. This is a great way to help the seller that took every step to make you happy. A Good Guy post in the BOI is a great thing that any member is allowed to do to show your appreciation. If they have a Good Guy Certificate, you can vote in their poll through this link. If you are a contributing member, you can also leave a trader rating.

There is also a dark side to feedback, unfortunately. I would rather not go into detail of what I think constitues a Bad Guy thread, but would advise to extensively research existing BG threads to develop your own opinion. Here are the rules posted for the BOI.

With that said, here are some great items that I have found helpful in the event of a BG thread:

* Pictures
* Emails
* Text message
* Screen shots of ads
* Accurate details of events
* Give notice to the accused of the thread
* Calm, clear head

Pictures, emails, texts, and screen shots can help others help you by noticing things you might have overlooked or to support your argument. This information usually isn't requested because you are suspected of lying, but at least for me, I would like to develop my own opinion of the events that occured. I have seen this privilage abused so I can understand suspicion and not withholding details will greatly improve your case.

Noticing the accused. If it's not clear that you did, a member will most likely ask. I think it's a great courtesy to hear both sides. It could just be a mistunderstanding and I have seen good come out of a BG thread.

Maintain a clear calm head before and during participation in a BG thread. Some will go to far lengths to help you and others will be antagonistic. Sustaining a clear positive attitude can go a long way. Receiving a dead or mislabeled snake can be frustrating, but don't let it get the best of you.

Over anything else, contact the seller before you post a Bad Guy thread! While not required to, impatience is not a virtue! A lot of Good Guys and Gals would love to keep things right with their customers.

Focal X said:

* DOA. I have luckily never had one but from experiences that I have read on here, freezing the body is an option that can buy you more time for a necropsy or for additional photos requested by the seller.

Click to expand...

just a quick tip on this, do not freeze the body if you want a necropsy (freezing destroys tissues/cells rupture), please use the fridge and put the animal in a ziplock/air tight container if possible.

AbsoluteApril said:

just a quick tip on this, do not freeze the body if you want a necropsy (freezing destroys tissues/cells rupture), please use the fridge and put the animal in a ziplock/air tight container if possible.

Click to expand...

Thanks April!! Updated.

This thread is sweet Nick. Nice job! Now, lets just make sure everyone knows about it!

Steps to Become Fedex Certified - By Brian Oakley

^
Link doesnt work =(

Use this one instead, the other one is a mess. You'll spend hours trying to find the most up to date information in it. This one has all the information in one article without commentary.

TripleMoonsExotic said:

Use this one instead, the other one is a mess. You'll spend hours trying to find the most up to date information in it. This one has all the information in one article without commentary.

Click to expand...

TY VM!

TOS and Transaction Memos

For those who have businesses or even the occasional seller, one important protection for both seller and buyer is a detailed TOS that spells out who is responsible for what in terms of costs, shipping, etc., and which spells out in detail what will happen and how and when to notify in case something goes wrong whether is be a mis-shipment, ill critter, not-as-described critter, mis-sexed critter, etc.

There are many good people here that will help with a TOS, and you can look at some of the TOS of the sellers with a good rep to look at what to include and the TOS of some scammers to see what to avoid.

In addition, never under rate the value of a transaction memo detailing a particular transaction. This should be emailed to the other party with a request for an OK and return. This memo can be used for large/expensive transactions, unusual sales, or for confirmations of an agreement made by telephone.

You can put in your TOS that telephone sales are not completed without written confirmation agreed to by both sides, and that the written memo takes precedence over any verbal agreements (since both sides will see and agree to the memo). How many times have we seen a BOI thread where an agreement is verbal, there is no writing, and then a dispute arises?

People are free to tailor a sale the way both parties see fit. For instance, a lizard vendor might make a deal for a lot of nipped beardies. But especially when the critter is in some way sub par, problems can arise when one party denies that he/she agreed to buy the critters as is especially when their expectations, let's say in the case of nips, was a little tiny toe nip and they get a shipment of lizards missing arms or legs.

A transaction memo will include specific details as to the sale, the sub par condition, the other general condition of the cdritters, maybe even a picture, and then sent to the other buyer and sent back with an OK.

If this sounds long and drawn out, it really isn't, you can even devise a specific form saved to your computer where you just fill in blanks with particulars. It's a lot less drawn out than some BOI threads.

There will always be sellers and customers who will complain validly or not about an issue that has not been addressed. But a good TOS and a transaction memo for those unusual sales will help decrease the incidence of this kind of friction and increase customer satisfaction, and leave you more time to enjoy buying and selling reptiles.