DWARF Leopard Geckos???

There is an ad on the "other" website's classifieds for dwarf leopard geckos, and it states that they "would make an interesting breeding project". I don't know how any of you feel about this, but it is my belief that this is a genetic defect and therefore the geckos should NOT be allowed to breed. I am very upset, and do not want to see this type of thing propagated into the general leo population! Am I over-reacting, or should I contact the people selling these geckos?

oh man, this pops up every few years. people get real small leos and they think its cool. what it probably means is they are not genetically strong (they are runts, sheesh). I would never breed them. but someone will.

marcia, contact them. Probably wont change their minds about selling. But I'd be interested to hear how they acquired this trio. I saw no "wanted" ads for runty leos in 2001.

Is it even safe for the females to breed ? And yeah I agree they must be runts or suffered malnutrition at some point in thier lives. Of course that one female doesn't look too starved now. That is some of the largest fat pockets behind the front legs I've seen on a leo. Maybe a bit too fat for a breeding leo?

In my experience, it is not a genetic defect, but rather just leos that had their growth stunted. How is this done, well, low temps and/or improper amounts of food. Large loads of parasites might also help out. This can cause serious problems if you wish to breed the animal in question. Females are likely to become egg bound, they are also likely to drop massive amounts of weight during egg production. She may not be able to recover and die shortly there after. As you can see, bad news! I for one would seriously take a look at the person offering them, and consider their ethics involved with selling animals. Perhaps they are simply misguided or ignorant, but something is currently wrong with their mode of thought.

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

... something is currently wrong with their mode of thought.

Their mode of thought is "quick money"...

If someone stumbled on a colony of dwarf leos in the wild, living and reproducing and genetically healthy (proof by Darwin) then I'd say COOL!!!! I'll buy me some.

They exist, just in the form of a different species found a little bit more to the west, <i> Eublepharis turcmenicus</i>.

Originally Posted by leaftail

Their mode of thought is "quick money"...

If someone stumbled on a colony of dwarf leos in the wild, living and reproducing and genetically healthy (proof by Darwin) then I'd say COOL!!!! I'll buy me some.

I don't think that these geckos should be bred for the simple fact that I wouldn't want the gene pool accidentally poluted.

My exact thoughts. I have actually seen "dwarf" leopard geckos, and they are not just small, they have a bull-dogish body and a very short, squatty tail. The two females in the ad appear to display these characteristics, while the male does not... he is just real small.

Yes, we have created genetic mutations in the evolution of the Leopard Gecko, but for the most part these traits are desireable, as Jeremy stated. I honestly feel that 'we' have an ethical responsibility to improve the species, and not exploit the undesireable faults. Irresponsibly promoting these traits as "an interesting breeding project" just plain old scares me!

I sent Pacific Coast Herpitological this email:

----- Original Message -----
From: <info@goldengategeckos.com>
To: <pch101@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: Message about: Young Adult trio of DWARF Leopard Geckos!


As a responsible and ethical leopard gecko breeder for nearly 10 years, it is my belief that the dwarfism of the two females you are selling is a genetic defect and therefore they should NOT be allowed to breed. I would hate to see this type of thing propagated into the general leo population! The male does not appear to have this defect, he's just small. These leos would make lovely pets... not breeders.

Thanks for reading this.
Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos



This was their reply:

Subj: Re: Message about: Young Adult trio of DWARF Leopard Geckos!
Date: 2/2/2005 1:28:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: pch101@cox.net
To: info@goldengategeckos.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)


Question: What do you think albinsm and many of the other color morphs is?
Answer: Genetic defects.
How is this different? Well, for starters, these do not have any genetic defect. They are just a very small line of Leos. They are no different than the tremper giants. Do you have a problem with them? These are healthy Leos, and they are going WILL be great breeders. This is captivity, in the reptile HOBBY. It is not a captive breeding program to introduce them into the wild. No one here is saving the species. If you have a problem with these, than you better take the rest of the day off and send your concerns to just about every other Leo ad in the Leo classifieds. Do you not see the hypocracy in your thinking?

James


Perhaps I should send him a link to this thread?

I think you should honestly. He'd be eatting his words as well

I knew that would be their defense. Marcia yes send him a link. But again it wont deter him - the people on fauna are not his target audience. He's looking for someone a bit more naive who will think they are on to the next big new leo morph...