hers
Bummed
After much thought about putting this up here, I feel that now I have waited as long as possible and given as many chances to correct this situation as possible. In October of 2005, I made arrangements with Sam Craver of CageCrafters. We made a deal that I was going to build his website and from that, he would deduct the total from my caging total. We had hired him to build six four-foot cages with heat and hinged doors. He quoted me a price of $150 per cage. Shipping was not an issue at the time because he said he had a delivery to South Carolina (see previous thread on this one). Okay, so $900 for the cages. Because he was a friend, I also cut him a deal on the website. The majority of the pages were done, I redesigned two logos (Cage Crafters and The Blood Bank) at no charge. I also moved the existing forum to the new server at no additional charge. I normally charge $199 for the forum and $99 for each logo design with the purchase of web design. Again, I considered him a friend, so I did the work for nothing. I was grateful about the arrangement. He needed a website redesign and I needed cages. So, I sent over $400 (I charged $500 for the website). Time continued to go on, and he let us know that it would take a couple months to finish the cages because he was behind. I was fine with this as the website was not complete anyway. I completed as much of the website as possible, with promises to get me content and photos. The content and the photos never came. So, the site was made with "coming soon" images and layed out as best as possible with the limited content that was given to me. All content that was completed was written by me because I was tired of waiting for him. I reworded and restructured what was on the existing site, which was quite limited. There were more pages that had not yet been completed, but all pages that were done at this point, were the only ones charged for.
We also made arrangements with Sam to construct 16 racks of various sizes. Several emails were sent back and forth and I was quoted $2120. I told him that we would not be able to pay until we got our income tax refund back, but this was not a problem for him, as he said he wouldn't be able to finish them until then anyhow.
Some more time passed and we (all the members of their forum) were informed that they (Sam and his wife Sue) were shutting down the forum. Sue informed me that the site was shutting down as well and Sam was going back to work and only doing caging on the side. There were also some personal issues that I will not touch on here. I immediately contacted Sam to find out what this meant for our previous arrangements. He assured me that he considered us (myself and husband Fred) friends and would complete the work for us. That nothing previously arranged would change. I trusted this. We had sporadic contact with him over the next few months, but every time I spoke with him I was assured everything was alright and moving along, though slowly.
Payment in the amount of $400 was sent via Paypal on Jan 27, 2006 and the final amount of $2120 on March 27, 2006, also via Paypal.
I spoke with him a few times following the last payment and he explained he was taking more time because he was working nearly seven days a week, but he was trying to get them out. He also told me during a phone conversation that since he was no longer doing the job for South Carolina, he would ship via a fright company at his cost.
In attempting to contact Sam, his number was changed to an unlisted number and we lost the ability to contact him. At this point, we sent out an email to our forum members to see if anyone had contact info. We were fortunate enough to get a response from some trying to help - though I will not name any names or what info was obtained because of their requests. We did receive this email from him (including the following email posted to our members):
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: May 6, 2006 7:03:54 AM EDT
To: [email protected]
Hi Lori and Fred, I got your phone message and your emails, but I havent been home early enough to call. Your cages and racks are just about ready, I only need venting in the cages, and 3 racks to complete. We are currently using our cell phones instead of our landline, here is my cell number, but please only call after 9pm. 609-675-****.
Thanks
Sam
-------------- Original message --------------
From: [email protected]
>
> The following is an email sent to you by an administrator of
> "www.hissnhers.com". If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments
> you find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the following
> address:
>
> [email protected]
>
> Include this full email (particularly the headers).
>
> Message sent to you follows:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Sorry to bug you guys. We are having an issue right now, and I was hoping
> someone out there had an updated phone number for the Cravers. (Either Sam or
> Sue) I had a cell phone number and a home phone number, but the home phone
> number has been changed to an unlisted number and the cell phone is
> disconnected. Sam and I had an arrangement on racks and cages. I sent him the
> last installment (for a total of $2500) on the 27th of March. Fred tried to
> contact him by phone over a week ago and left a message on the answering
> machine. We have not heard back from him as of yet. After the thread on the
> BOI and no contact, we are starting to worry. I was the first one to stand up
> for Sam on the BOI and just hope that was not a mistake! So, if anyone can help
> us out, it would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> Fred and Lori Follett
This was my response:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: May 7, 2006 9:37:14 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Sam,
I appreciate you getting back to me, but we really need to talk to you as well. I really truly don't want to believe everything that has been going around. That amount of money doesn't come around very easily for us, so we are a little anxious when we don't talk to you and then we get all this info about you "taking the money and running" and selling off all your snakes to pay back customer's whose orders you didn't fill. I am normally not a bad judge of character, and I trusted you with our money. Please don't let us down, Sam. We really need the cages and racks. We have snakes in closets, snakes in rubbermaid totes and two burms that are way too big for their enclosures! We started this back in August! Please, please just call Fred back and talk to him. Fred talked to an attorney, as I know he told you already. We haven't done anything yet, and truly hope that we don't have to! Do me a favor, to put our minds at rest - take some pics of the cages and racks with dated stuff so we can see what you are doing and email them to me.
Lori
And, his following response:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: May 9, 2006 7:30:39 AM EDT
To: [email protected]
Hi Lori, Sure I can take some pics, I just need to get the cages and racks out into the yard so I can get some shots of them. As soon as I get a chance, I will do that. I will call you, just getting the time before its to late at night has been the problem.
Sorry....
Talk soon,
Sam
Since this last email there has been NO contact from him. We have called several times leaving many messages - to the point I have been calling at various times of the day, nearly every day with no response. For a couple of weeks, his voice mail was disabled so no messages could be left. This has since been enabled and countless messages have been left - including a message warning that Fred would report this as internet fraud to the authorities and my intent to take it to the BOI.
As I am writing this, I decided to give him yet another opportunity, and wrote the following email:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: June 25, 2006 7:22:05 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sam,
You have had more than enough time to put in venting and complete 3 racks. I suggest you get them shipped immediately. I am putting this up on the Board of Inquiry. You know, if this is how you treat your friends, I would hate to see how you treat your enemies. I trusted you, Sam. I want this put to rest. I have stressed about this long enough and you have had long enough to complete this and get them shipped. I know you have gotten our many phone messages and I have specifically told you I don't care what time you call back - but to call. I am posting this on the BOI tonight. I will ask fred to hold off on reporting internet fraud at this point. But, don't expect him to wait too long - we have already waited long enough. We started this in October!
In case you are interested in info about the internet fraud, go here: http://www.ic3.gov/
Lori
407-362-**** (home - try first)
386-479-**** (cell)
[email protected]
I, with much regret, don't suspect we will be hearing from him anytime soon. But, with the outcome of the previous posts on the BOI about him, I am hoping that in the end, he will come through and send the cages or at least the money owed for the site and refund the money sent. We will keep you updated on the progress of this, but are not holding out much hope of him doing the right thing at this point.
Additionally, we have had to spend money on additional caging for our ever-growing burms and make additional accommodations for the rest of the collection in waiting for this to resolve.
We also made arrangements with Sam to construct 16 racks of various sizes. Several emails were sent back and forth and I was quoted $2120. I told him that we would not be able to pay until we got our income tax refund back, but this was not a problem for him, as he said he wouldn't be able to finish them until then anyhow.
Some more time passed and we (all the members of their forum) were informed that they (Sam and his wife Sue) were shutting down the forum. Sue informed me that the site was shutting down as well and Sam was going back to work and only doing caging on the side. There were also some personal issues that I will not touch on here. I immediately contacted Sam to find out what this meant for our previous arrangements. He assured me that he considered us (myself and husband Fred) friends and would complete the work for us. That nothing previously arranged would change. I trusted this. We had sporadic contact with him over the next few months, but every time I spoke with him I was assured everything was alright and moving along, though slowly.
Payment in the amount of $400 was sent via Paypal on Jan 27, 2006 and the final amount of $2120 on March 27, 2006, also via Paypal.
I spoke with him a few times following the last payment and he explained he was taking more time because he was working nearly seven days a week, but he was trying to get them out. He also told me during a phone conversation that since he was no longer doing the job for South Carolina, he would ship via a fright company at his cost.
In attempting to contact Sam, his number was changed to an unlisted number and we lost the ability to contact him. At this point, we sent out an email to our forum members to see if anyone had contact info. We were fortunate enough to get a response from some trying to help - though I will not name any names or what info was obtained because of their requests. We did receive this email from him (including the following email posted to our members):
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: May 6, 2006 7:03:54 AM EDT
To: [email protected]
Hi Lori and Fred, I got your phone message and your emails, but I havent been home early enough to call. Your cages and racks are just about ready, I only need venting in the cages, and 3 racks to complete. We are currently using our cell phones instead of our landline, here is my cell number, but please only call after 9pm. 609-675-****.
Thanks
Sam
-------------- Original message --------------
From: [email protected]
>
> The following is an email sent to you by an administrator of
> "www.hissnhers.com". If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments
> you find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the following
> address:
>
> [email protected]
>
> Include this full email (particularly the headers).
>
> Message sent to you follows:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Sorry to bug you guys. We are having an issue right now, and I was hoping
> someone out there had an updated phone number for the Cravers. (Either Sam or
> Sue) I had a cell phone number and a home phone number, but the home phone
> number has been changed to an unlisted number and the cell phone is
> disconnected. Sam and I had an arrangement on racks and cages. I sent him the
> last installment (for a total of $2500) on the 27th of March. Fred tried to
> contact him by phone over a week ago and left a message on the answering
> machine. We have not heard back from him as of yet. After the thread on the
> BOI and no contact, we are starting to worry. I was the first one to stand up
> for Sam on the BOI and just hope that was not a mistake! So, if anyone can help
> us out, it would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> Fred and Lori Follett
This was my response:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: May 7, 2006 9:37:14 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Sam,
I appreciate you getting back to me, but we really need to talk to you as well. I really truly don't want to believe everything that has been going around. That amount of money doesn't come around very easily for us, so we are a little anxious when we don't talk to you and then we get all this info about you "taking the money and running" and selling off all your snakes to pay back customer's whose orders you didn't fill. I am normally not a bad judge of character, and I trusted you with our money. Please don't let us down, Sam. We really need the cages and racks. We have snakes in closets, snakes in rubbermaid totes and two burms that are way too big for their enclosures! We started this back in August! Please, please just call Fred back and talk to him. Fred talked to an attorney, as I know he told you already. We haven't done anything yet, and truly hope that we don't have to! Do me a favor, to put our minds at rest - take some pics of the cages and racks with dated stuff so we can see what you are doing and email them to me.
Lori
And, his following response:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: May 9, 2006 7:30:39 AM EDT
To: [email protected]
Hi Lori, Sure I can take some pics, I just need to get the cages and racks out into the yard so I can get some shots of them. As soon as I get a chance, I will do that. I will call you, just getting the time before its to late at night has been the problem.
Sorry....
Talk soon,
Sam
Since this last email there has been NO contact from him. We have called several times leaving many messages - to the point I have been calling at various times of the day, nearly every day with no response. For a couple of weeks, his voice mail was disabled so no messages could be left. This has since been enabled and countless messages have been left - including a message warning that Fred would report this as internet fraud to the authorities and my intent to take it to the BOI.
As I am writing this, I decided to give him yet another opportunity, and wrote the following email:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contact Info
Date: June 25, 2006 7:22:05 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sam,
You have had more than enough time to put in venting and complete 3 racks. I suggest you get them shipped immediately. I am putting this up on the Board of Inquiry. You know, if this is how you treat your friends, I would hate to see how you treat your enemies. I trusted you, Sam. I want this put to rest. I have stressed about this long enough and you have had long enough to complete this and get them shipped. I know you have gotten our many phone messages and I have specifically told you I don't care what time you call back - but to call. I am posting this on the BOI tonight. I will ask fred to hold off on reporting internet fraud at this point. But, don't expect him to wait too long - we have already waited long enough. We started this in October!
In case you are interested in info about the internet fraud, go here: http://www.ic3.gov/
Lori
407-362-**** (home - try first)
386-479-**** (cell)
[email protected]
I, with much regret, don't suspect we will be hearing from him anytime soon. But, with the outcome of the previous posts on the BOI about him, I am hoping that in the end, he will come through and send the cages or at least the money owed for the site and refund the money sent. We will keep you updated on the progress of this, but are not holding out much hope of him doing the right thing at this point.
Additionally, we have had to spend money on additional caging for our ever-growing burms and make additional accommodations for the rest of the collection in waiting for this to resolve.
