IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

Has anyone tried to post anything in regards to the IBD problem on KS's Boa forum?

Actually, we emailed the site coordinator, he stated that we cannot make a complaint, because we were not directly affected, and all that we told him was hearsay. The parties that purchased animals from Big Daddy's Wholesale, and can prove the IBD (with veterinary paperwork), need to be the ones to lodge a complaint about their ads still running on KS. But they must have their proof! If no proof is provided, it is considered to just be an attack on the vendor, based on rumor. I would encourage all of the injured parties to get their proof together, and contact KS.

I made a simple inquiry about BDH and my post was deleted. No surprise there! As far as proof goes that's a BS response, they still aloow CRE to have ad's when it's been proven that they are no good. KS is all about money.

I'm giving this thread a bump and hope that the discussion about this will remain mostly in this thread so it will stay on the first page, its title says more than the other threads on the subject..Randy

Here is a copy of the email posting in the other thread.

Cat_72 said:

I was asked to post this for another member here, as he wasn't sure how to get the whole thing on here. It is an email from Allen to him. To me, it shows not only Allen's ignorance (chosen, or otherwise) and unwillingness to even THINK about what this could do to others, as he plans to continue selling animals.....and seems to think people are just mad because he is a"southern boy" making lots of money....

From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:35 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Re: Message about: HERE'S THE LIST, BUT WERE YOU GOOD ENOUGH FOR THESE TO MAK...

JOEPYTHONS, I AM AWARE OF THE THREAD ON FAUNA. FIRST I DO NOT KNOW IF THE GUY (AIRTRIXX) BOUGHT FROM ME OR NOT. SECONDLY I HAVE HAD THE UNIVERSITY DO PRELIMINARY BLOOD WORK THAT CAME BACK FINE ON MY SNAKES. I JUST FLAT REFUSE TO GO ON THE SIGHT AND EVEN READ THE THREAD OR GIVE IT THE TIME OF DAY. IBD IS NOT AN AIRBORN DISEASE. IT IS TRANSFERED THROUGH BLOOD, SEX, AND OTHER BODILY FLUIDS. IT IS THE AIDS OF THE REPTILES. HOWEVER BOAS CAN BE CARRIERS AND LIVE WITH THE VIRUS FOR A LONG TIME, WHEN PYTHONS CAN NOT. PYTHONS WILL SHOW SIGNS IN AS LITTLE AS TWO WEEKS AND LIVE A MAX OF 35 DAYS. ALSO THE REASON NO ONE IS DEFENDING ME IS THAT I PERSONALLY ASKED SEVERAL OF MY FRIENDS TO NOT GET INVOLVED. IBD WAS DISCOVERED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA IN GAINSVILLE. I WISH THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THE THREAD WOULD DO AS I HAVE AND SPEND A LITTLE TIME CONTACTING THE SCIENCE AND PATHOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA. IF THEY WOULD MAKE GOOD USE WITH THEIR TIME IN LEARNING THE DETAILS ABOUT THE DISEASE. THEY WOULD DISCOVER THAT THEY HAVE OPENED THEIR MOUTH AND INSERTED THEIR FOOT. I HAVE 8 BOAS IN MY ENTIRE COLLECTION OF HIGH ENDS. THEY ARE KEEP IN A ROOM THAT CONTAINS RETICULATED PYTHONS. IF I HAD IBD I WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT ALONG TIME AGO THROUGH THE DEATH OF MY RETICS. ALSO IF THE GUY DID PURCHASE A SNAKE FROM ME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM MY WHOLESALE COLLECTION WHICH IS IN ANOTHER SEPERATE FACILITY. THIS COLLECTION CONTAINS MANY DIFFERENT BREEDS AND LOCALS OF REPTILES. SO HERE AGAIN I WOULD HAVE ALREADY KNOWN.
NOW I DON'T KNOW IF YOU INTENDED TO FIND THIS INFORMATION OUT FOR YOUR OWN BENIFIT OR IF YOU INTEND TO HAVE THIS ADDED TO THE THREAD. SO I WILL ADD THIS:
JEALOUSY AND GREED ARE THE TWO FACTORS THAT DRIVES OUR WORLD. THEY ARE ALSO THE TWO FACTORS THAT TEAR OUR WORLD APART. I AM NOT THE BIGGEST PLAYER IN THE REPTILE INDUSTRY AND AT THE SAME TIME NOT THE SMALLEST. I SPENT ALOT OF MONEY TO GET INTO THIS MARKET AND I SEE THE MARKET PRICES CHANGING. SO I CHANGE WITH IT. WHICH SOMETIMES MEANS I HAVE TO STAY A STEP AHEAD OF IT TO GET THE SALE. GREED? NO! SMART, VERY SMART! SEE IF I WORKED FOR ANY OF THE PEOPLE ON THAT VERY THREAD AND WAS IN THEIR SALES DEPARTMENT. I WOULD BE RECEIVING BONUSES AND CONGRATS. BUT SENSE I WORK FOR ME, THEY CONCIDER ME THE ENEMY. FUNNY THING IS THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW ME! SO BECAUSE I SALE ALOT OF REPTILES I AM A TARGET. IT OFFENDS PEOPLE WHEN A (SOUTHERN BOY) AS I HAVE BEEN CALLED, COMES TO A SHOW AND WALKS OUT WITH ALOT OF MONEY. WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT PARTICULAR SHOW FOR YEARS AND NEVER DONE THOSE KIND OF SALES. SO THIS IS WHERE THE JEALOUSY COMES IN AND THEN TURNS TO ANGER. BUT WHY ARE THEY ANGRY AT ME? BECAUSE I CAME AND DID WHAT WE ALL GO TO SHOWS TO DO. SELL SNAKES! SO HERE'S MY TAKE ON THE THREAD YOU ASKED ME ABOUT. I BELIEVE WITH EVERYTHING THAT I KNOW AND HAVE WITNESSED WITH MY COLLECTION THAT I AM IBD FREE. ALSO I WILL CONTINUE TO SELL SNAKES AT THE BEST PRICES AND OF THE BEST QUALITY AT SHOWS AND ON THE INTERNET.
FINAL THOUGHT:
I HAVE CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLAR COLLECTION. I ALONG WITH TWO OTHERS WORK HERE DAILY. SNAKES IS WHAT I DO. I WOULD KNOW.

OH ONE MORE THING. BIG DADDY BALLROOM IS MY EMAIL ADDRESS AND HAS BEEN SINCE I STARTED MY COMPANY. IT IS [email protected] MY NAME IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE BIG DADDY WHOLESALE AND THIS WAS THE BANNER THAT WAS AT MY END CAP AT THE FIRE SHOW THIS WEEKEND. IT IS ALSO THE NAME THAT I SENT THEM TO DO ON MY BADGES AND FOR THE WEBSITE. CINDY, WHO IS ONE OF THE PROMOTERS, USED MY EMAIL INFO INSTEAD OF MY NAME. THEIR MISTAKE. I AM NOT CHANGING MY NAME.
THANKS ALLEN

Click to expand...

I think what Joe was pointing out was he got Allen to admit there is a chance he had IBD and will continue to sell regardless.

Thanks for copying that, Bill....had to run off and drop the daughter at school.

I think you've got the main idea here pretty well stated, Bill. And, he also is confirming that all he supposedly had done were a few blood tests (which is akin to doing nothing, as you cannot rule out IBD from a simple blood test)...if indeed he did those at all.

correct

Bill & Amy said:

Here is a copy of the email posting in the other thread.




I think what Joe was pointing out was he got Allen to admit there is a chance he had IBD and will continue to sell regardless.

Click to expand...

Thank you Bill

joepythons said:

Thank you Bill

Click to expand...

Thanks Bill, was gonna do that and forgot too....Randy

Allen You got to be Kinding Right ??????

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about: MALE WOMAS ALMOST THREE FEET BEST PRICING ON KINGSNAKE
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:47:03 EST

I GOT SEVEN SNAKES TESTED THROUGH BLOOD WORK WITH THE UNIVERSITY AND ALL
CAME BACK NEGATIVE FOR IBD. THIS IS JUST THE FIRST PRELIMINARY TESTS THAT WILL
BE RAN. THEY ARE TESTING FOUR OF THE SNAKES FOR IBD THROUGH THE TISSUE SAMPLES.
I WILL NOT KNOW THE RESULTS FOR 10 TO 14 BUSINESS DAYS. I WILL MAKE YOU
AWARE OF THE RESULTS BY PROOF OF THE PAPERWORK AS SOON AS I HAVE IT. I DID NOT GO
ON FAUNA WITH THE BLOODWORK BECAUSE THEY CALLED ME ON THE PHONE WITH THE
RESULTS. SO I HAVE NO PROOF AS OF YET. THE HERPTOLOCIST DID TELL ME HOWEVER THAT
IF A SNAKE UNDER THE AGE OF 6 MONTHS OLD HAS IBD THAT THE MOTHER IS THE ONLY
WAY THAT A SNAKE THAT YOUNG COULD HAVE THE DIESEASE. HE ALSO ADDED THAT THE
MOTHER WOULD HAVE PASSED THE IBD TO EVERY SINGLE BABY AS THEY WOULD BE LIVING
OFF OF HER BODY FLUIDS. TWO OF THE SNAKES BEING TESTED ARE RELATED TO THE
SNAKES THAT I SOLD AT THAT SHOW.
I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS TWO THINGS WITH YOU CONCERNING THIS THREAD. THE
FIRST IS THE YELLOW BUSINESS CARD. MY WIFE DID GO AND HAVE MORE CARDS PRINTED UP
FROM KINKOS THE DAY BEFORE WE LEFT FOR THAT SHOW. SHE DID GET THEM PRINTED IN
YELLOW. WHEN I WROTE THAT I DID NOT HAVE YELLOW CARDS I TRUELY BELIEVED THAT
I DID NOT. THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME SHE HAD PRINTED CARDS FOR ME, SO FOR MY
MISTAKE I AM SORRY. I TRUELY FELT YOU WERE MESSING WITH ME WHEN YOU SAID THAT
ABOUT THE YELLOW CARDS.
I READ WHERE YOU SAID THAT YOU WAITED FOR MY RESPONSE AND THEN YOU POSTED
THIS STUFF ON FAUNA. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO GO AND LOOK AT THE TIME ON THE EMAILS
WE TRADED AND THE TIME THAT YOU POSTED ON FAUNA. IF AS YOU SAY THIS WAS TO
INFORM ME, THEN WHY POST ON FAUNA. I WAS RESPONDING TO YOU EMAILS AND EVEN
GIVING YOU THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT THAT YOU PURCHASED THE SNAKE FROM ME. ADDING
TO THAT STATEMENT I STILL CAN NOT SAY THAT YOU DID OR DID NOT PURCHASE THE
SNAKE FROM ME. I HAVE NOT SEEN THE PICTURES YET FROM THE BREEDER THAT THE BOAS I
HAD AT THE SHOW CAME FROM. HOWEVER I AM TREATING THIS LIKE YOU DID. AS I
STATED EARLIER I WILL SEND YOU PAPERWORK AS SOON AS I HAVE IT IN HAND.
NOW THIS IS HOW WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMMUNICATING ABOUT THIS ALL ALONG. IBD
IS A HARD TOPIC IN THE REPTILE INDUSTRY AND I AM NOT TAKING IT LIGHTLY.
I WILL ASK FOR YOU TO CONCIDER ONE THING. IF MY SNAKES PROVE TO BE IBD
POSSITIVE LET ME START MY OWN THREAD TELLING OTHERS, THEY SHOULD HEAR IT FROM ME
PERSONALLY NOT ANYONE ELSE. AND IF IT PROVES TO BE IBD NEGATIVE I WILL LET YOU
TELL IT ANYWAY YOU WANT AS LONG AS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE RESULTS ARE REVEALED.

THANKS ALLEN BELCHER

Click to expand...

this is the e-mail you sent to Ron, Now you send one to JoePython saying your not sure if you sold it to Ron ?? Dude Ron didn't just pull the color of your cards out of the great unknown.....You know that you sold it to him, and you know that this disease is running through your collection. But the sad thing is, That you can do this and there isn't anyone that can stop you, except yourself which you won't do. If you have proof that says your Collection is clean then post it. Put everyones mind at ease.

Wouldn't it be proof enough for Ron to link them to the evidence he posted here. It is pretty cut clear and dry once you go through the whole thing. Or i mean he could email it strait to them. It just sucks that Kingsnake is all about the money, but what they don't understand is being greedy like this could hurt them big time in the long run. I would venture that Boas and Balls are one of the biggest things in the herp world and like someone else pointed out Allen could be single handedly dropping a plague on our world. He doesn't have any adds up today(that I saw) but he did Monday and last week.

I really hope that this (IBD case) is an isolated event here, cause it doesn't seam that Allen is stepping up. He is continuing to sell possibly infected animals, but keeps trying to make it look like he is on top of the situations. Anyone who has read these threads even knows that blood test and fecals are no good in detecting IBD. Allen try as you may you cant pull the wool over our eyes.

his ads were pulled over there.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:35 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Re: Message about: HERE'S THE LIST, BUT WERE YOU GOOD ENOUGH FOR THESE TO MAK...

JOEPYTHONS, I AM AWARE OF THE THREAD ON FAUNA. FIRST I DO NOT KNOW IF THE GUY (AIRTRIXX) BOUGHT FROM ME OR NOT. SECONDLY I HAVE HAD THE UNIVERSITY DO PRELIMINARY BLOOD WORK THAT CAME BACK FINE ON MY SNAKES. I JUST FLAT REFUSE TO GO ON THE SIGHT AND EVEN READ THE THREAD OR GIVE IT THE TIME OF DAY. IBD IS NOT AN AIRBORN DISEASE. IT IS TRANSFERED THROUGH BLOOD, SEX, AND OTHER BODILY FLUIDS. IT IS THE AIDS OF THE REPTILES. HOWEVER BOAS CAN BE CARRIERS AND LIVE WITH THE VIRUS FOR A LONG TIME, WHEN PYTHONS CAN NOT. PYTHONS WILL SHOW SIGNS IN AS LITTLE AS TWO WEEKS AND LIVE A MAX OF 35 DAYS. ALSO THE REASON NO ONE IS DEFENDING ME IS THAT I PERSONALLY ASKED SEVERAL OF MY FRIENDS TO NOT GET INVOLVED. IBD WAS DISCOVERED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA IN GAINSVILLE. I WISH THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THE THREAD WOULD DO AS I HAVE AND SPEND A LITTLE TIME CONTACTING THE SCIENCE AND PATHOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA. IF THEY WOULD MAKE GOOD USE WITH THEIR TIME IN LEARNING THE DETAILS ABOUT THE DISEASE. THEY WOULD DISCOVER THAT THEY HAVE OPENED THEIR MOUTH AND INSERTED THEIR FOOT. I HAVE 8 BOAS IN MY ENTIRE COLLECTION OF HIGH ENDS. THEY ARE KEEP IN A ROOM THAT CONTAINS RETICULATED PYTHONS. IF I HAD IBD I WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT ALONG TIME AGO THROUGH THE DEATH OF MY RETICS. ALSO IF THE GUY DID PURCHASE A SNAKE FROM ME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM MY WHOLESALE COLLECTION WHICH IS IN ANOTHER SEPERATE FACILITY. THIS COLLECTION CONTAINS MANY DIFFERENT BREEDS AND LOCALS OF REPTILES. SO HERE AGAIN I WOULD HAVE ALREADY KNOWN.
NOW I DON'T KNOW IF YOU INTENDED TO FIND THIS INFORMATION OUT FOR YOUR OWN BENIFIT OR IF YOU INTEND TO HAVE THIS ADDED TO THE THREAD. SO I WILL ADD THIS:
JEALOUSY AND GREED ARE THE TWO FACTORS THAT DRIVES OUR WORLD. THEY ARE ALSO THE TWO FACTORS THAT TEAR OUR WORLD APART. I AM NOT THE BIGGEST PLAYER IN THE REPTILE INDUSTRY AND AT THE SAME TIME NOT THE SMALLEST. I SPENT ALOT OF MONEY TO GET INTO THIS MARKET AND I SEE THE MARKET PRICES CHANGING. SO I CHANGE WITH IT. WHICH SOMETIMES MEANS I HAVE TO STAY A STEP AHEAD OF IT TO GET THE SALE. GREED? NO! SMART, VERY SMART! SEE IF I WORKED FOR ANY OF THE PEOPLE ON THAT VERY THREAD AND WAS IN THEIR SALES DEPARTMENT. I WOULD BE RECEIVING BONUSES AND CONGRATS. BUT SENSE I WORK FOR ME, THEY CONCIDER ME THE ENEMY. FUNNY THING IS THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW ME! SO BECAUSE I SALE ALOT OF REPTILES I AM A TARGET. IT OFFENDS PEOPLE WHEN A (SOUTHERN BOY) AS I HAVE BEEN CALLED, COMES TO A SHOW AND WALKS OUT WITH ALOT OF MONEY. WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT PARTICULAR SHOW FOR YEARS AND NEVER DONE THOSE KIND OF SALES. SO THIS IS WHERE THE JEALOUSY COMES IN AND THEN TURNS TO ANGER. BUT WHY ARE THEY ANGRY AT ME? BECAUSE I CAME AND DID WHAT WE ALL GO TO SHOWS TO DO. SELL SNAKES! SO HERE'S MY TAKE ON THE THREAD YOU ASKED ME ABOUT. I BELIEVE WITH EVERYTHING THAT I KNOW AND HAVE WITNESSED WITH MY COLLECTION THAT I AM IBD FREE. ALSO I WILL CONTINUE TO SELL SNAKES AT THE BEST PRICES AND OF THE BEST QUALITY AT SHOWS AND ON THE INTERNET.
FINAL THOUGHT:
I HAVE CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLAR COLLECTION. I ALONG WITH TWO OTHERS WORK HERE DAILY. SNAKES IS WHAT I DO. I WOULD KNOW.

OH ONE MORE THING. BIG DADDY BALLROOM IS MY EMAIL ADDRESS AND HAS BEEN SINCE I STARTED MY COMPANY. IT IS [email protected] MY NAME IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE BIG DADDY WHOLESALE AND THIS WAS THE BANNER THAT WAS AT MY END CAP AT THE FIRE SHOW THIS WEEKEND. IT IS ALSO THE NAME THAT I SENT THEM TO DO ON MY BADGES AND FOR THE WEBSITE. CINDY, WHO IS ONE OF THE PROMOTERS, USED MY EMAIL INFO INSTEAD OF MY NAME. THEIR MISTAKE. I AM NOT CHANGING MY NAME.
THANKS ALLEN


Oh where to start.

1) The university knows better than to tell anyone a simple bloodtest would be conclusive for IBD .

2) Who wants to defend a sinking ship with the captain shooting himself in the foot on a regular basis.

3) The University of Fla would also advise you that blood tests are inconclusive for IBD . Open your own mouth and try REMOVING your foot. A good deal of the folks posting in the threads have a bit of knowledge about IBD , enough to tell you where your lieing anyway.

4) Your wholesale " facility " , nothing more than a room I helped you frame in a portable building , is a stones throw from your other " facility " . Are you saying that your guys are absolutely positive , you as well , that there is no way that anyone walked out of one building to another without the least bit of contamination? Beyond a shadow of a doubt , no one went into the wholesale room , touched something and walked out to go to your breeding room , completely cleaning themselves before walking in the door ?
Do you still transport all the animals in very close proximity to the shows? Are they not on your table together? Wholesale animals pulled and high end pulled for customer inspection and never ever did someone forget to clean their hands?

5) Can you accept responsibilty for ANYTHING???? In this entire thread you've blamed everyone else but yourself.

floridaboy85 said:

Wouldn't it be proof enough for Ron to link them to the evidence he posted here. It is pretty cut clear and dry once you go through the whole thing. Or i mean he could email it strait to them. It just sucks that Kingsnake is all about the money, but what they don't understand is being greedy like this could hurt them big time in the long run.

Click to expand...

um.. KS has pretty clear cut rules over there on their classifieds on how to report people. From a legal standpoint, 3rd party hearsay/rumors/gossip or whatever is just that.. hearsay/rumors/gossip - not proof... no matter how valid the complaint might actually be. The person who purchased an animal or product from a KS advert and later has problems with the item they purchased or service has to be the one to file the formal complaint with KS against the vendor. A person who does not have direct involvement in the actual transaction cannot file for someone else.

http://market.pethobbyist.com/tos.php#10

Adrian

one thing i dont understand is if this was false why isnt allen here backin himself up, he has nothing to say for himself.

Question about IBD and a snake I bought from BDH

I posted in the last thread about a spider I bought from BDH but I want to aska question. I was looking into IBD in the Barker book and it is saying that it kills pythons in 2 to 4 months. And it lists the symptoms of IBD. My spider isn't exhibiting any of those symptoms but he is still in quarentine and will remain there until I get a clear bill from my vet.

Here's my question: are the tests they run on live animals very accurate and can anyone else give me a better understanding of IBD?

I have a collection that ranges from Lessers, Carmels, Mojaves, Lemons, Pieds, Albinos, Axanthics, Clowns, and so on and so on. I was planning on breaking into this business in the next year or two but I am really worried about my collection as it sits. I would think that if the spider I got from Allen had IBD with as small as he is, he would have died by now. He was purchased on August 28th of this year.

Please tell me I might be right.

Thanks again guys,
Jon

Wraith said:

um.. KS has pretty clear cut rules over there on their classifieds on how to report people. From a legal standpoint, 3rd party hearsay/rumors/gossip or whatever is just that.. hearsay/rumors/gossip - not proof... no matter how valid the complaint might actually be. The person who purchased an animal or product from a KS advert and later has problems with the item they purchased or service has to be the one to file the formal complaint with KS against the vendor. A person who does not have direct involvement in the actual transaction cannot file for someone else.

http://market.pethobbyist.com/tos.php#10

Adrian

Click to expand...

Um.......it was suggested that Ron could email them the vet report and such....Ron is the one who had a snake DIE from IBD after purchasing it from Allen. I'm not sure how much more involved he could be.

Spider Update

Well, I got my spider out after posting on here and noticed him turning sideways in my hand. I lifted the hide out and noticed he had deficated for the first time on his own. I have been having to force feed him and stopped after he put on some weight. I have been offering food once a week ever since but he has refused it every time.

When I put him back in his cage, I noticed him rolling to the side again completely rolling over twice. He did make his way to the hide and I left him alone. I think I might have gotten a snake with IBD. Now what worries me is that I did the green mistake of not quarentining him when I first got him. I placed him in a tub in one of my snake racks and went on my way. He spent about a month in there and I was assist feeding him every 3 to 4 days. When I saw that he wasn't starting to eat, I pulled him and placed him in a quarantine room I setup.

I sterilized the cage and sent an email to Allen. I was asked to send him back so Allen could work with him and "get him going again". I chose not to do this.

I bought the snake on August 28 and he was very under-weight with his skin being loose. This is the reason I decided to assit feed him.

Well, Allen noticed I posted on the BOI and I got an email from him.

JON I HEARD THAT YOU POSTED ON FAUNA LAST NIGHT. SO I AM SURE THAT YOU HAVE READ THE POSTS. JUST FOR YOUR OWN INFO. I DO NOT HAVE IBD. IBD AFFECTS PYTHONS DIFFERENTLY THAN BOAS. PYTHONS SHOW SIGNS IN AS LITTLE AS 10 DAYS. WITH DEATH OCCURING IN THE MAX OF 35 DAYS. I ASKED MY FRIENDS TO STOP POSTING ON THE THREAD. THAT IS WHY NO ONE IS DEFENDING ME INCLUDING MYSELF. I WILL NOT GO TO THE SIGHT AGAIN! I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN PLAY GAMES OVER THE INTERNET. KEEP IN TOUCH. THANKS ALLEN

Thought you guys might want to see that.

I can say that if my snake dies and/or it harms any of my others, I plan on sueing Allen for negligence. I know these are harsh words but I have way too much money invested in my collection and I love them all as pets and want to see no harm come to them and this is what he would have caused.

Jon Mitchell said:

When I put him back in his cage, I noticed him rolling to the side again completely rolling over twice. He did make his way to the hide and I left him alone. I think I might have gotten a snake with IBD. Now what worries me is that I did the green mistake of not quarentining him when I first got him. I placed him in a tub in one of my snake racks and went on my way. He spent about a month in there and I was assist feeding him every 3 to 4 days. When I saw that he wasn't starting to eat, I pulled him and placed him in a quarantine room I setup.

Click to expand...

Jon, What I'm about to say may sting, or out right hurt, I have only seen 1 snake in my life that had IBD, So I'm not an expert on this. You need to take that Spider to have it tested....No If Ands or Buts....And if he/she comes back possitive Well, It's the eternal sleep, and this may go for the rest of your collection also, With this diease there is no remission or meds the only cure is the long sleep. I do feel your pain, I truly do. This is why proper Quarantine,And Hygene is so important.[/B]

I bought the snake on August 28 and he was very under-weight with his skin being loose.

Click to expand...

This is also around the time Ron bought his and we all know how that turned out, Don't we. Jon, If this sounds like I'm attacking, I'm not, This whole FLIPPING mess has got me so pissed off, As well as others.

Jon.....I am so teribly sorry to hear this. Testing must be done right away, of course....I pray that it will not end up being IBD.

Allen keeps saying that pythons will always die from IBD within 35 days, and show signs within 10 days? I'm not sure where he has gotten his(mis)information.....but from everything I have read, yes, pythons will have as a rule a much more rapid decline than boas, but the time frame is usually given FROM THE ONSET OF SYMPTOMS, not from the time of exposure.

Quoted from the Merck Veterinary manual:

Pythons are thought to be an abnormal host to the IBD retrovirus because the course of disease is more acute and neurologic symptoms more profound. In most pythons the acute symptoms that boas exhibit will be missed, and they will be presented with severe neurologic disease. While the active disease can linger for months or more in boas, most pythons die within days or weeks of the onset of clinical signs.

This again, confirms a 3 month time period from exposure to death, reinforcing the 10-35 days would be only AFTER the onset of physical symptoms:

Quote from Dave Barker (pers. com., 28 Jan. 2000),

“Python keepers have had a much easier time [than boa keepers] with IBD, basically because it appears to affect only the brain and death comes more quickly. The advantage is that the snake may show symptoms in weeks after exposure, (star-gazing, poor motor control, loss of appetite, coiling or constricting uncontrollably when they are stimulated) and so far as is known, pythons do not live longer than three months after infection. Python keepers are usually able to nip the problem in the bud very quickly.”

Jon, when did you get this snake?