What's important to you in a reptile show?

1. I prefer to buy captive bred, but have nothing against healthy wc animals so long as they are represented honestly.

2. Quality & vendor knowledge are more important to me that reputation for the most part. Obviously known bad guys aren't going to get my $$$. Fair prices are important but I'm not above taking advantage of a good deal either.

3. I go to reptile shows to see reptiles, amphibians and possibly some insects. Exotic mammals and birds are nice, but I don't want to see them at a herp show...especially when their scent is permeating a room full of predators.

4. I've occassionally listened to some of the lectures if they interest me but mostly I go for the animals and to meet up with other like-minded folks.

5. I don't think "activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers" should be offered at a herp expo. Leave that stuff for the local fair.

6. $10-$15 for a fairly large, and quality, herp expo...up to $20 for a two-day event.

7. I like the large shows for the variety but also enjoy going to some of the smaller shows because you have more opportunity to get to know the vendors first hand.

8. I don't typically ask for a vendor to go down on a price so long as the price is fair for the animal(s) in question. I've been pretty lucky with most of my purchases and have gotten fair deals at the least and a couple of times gotten really good deals for the animal in question.

9. The majority of my collection was either purchased at a show or from individuals though I have one snake I purchased online and my first came from a pet store some 12 years ago.

10. There is no such thing as too many herp shows in my book. There are 4-6 regular shows in my area that I go to every year plus MARS in Timonium, MD that I attend. Anything else I hear about within a reasonable driving distance I also attend. I don't always buy animals but will often pick up some supplies or just visit with vendors & friends that show up. If nothing else, it's just something I enjoy doing.

11. I am definitely spending less this year than I have in the past. The economy hasn't been great for my insureds and thus, as their insurance agent, not that great for me either. As my own cash flow picks up, so will my spending.

1. Do you prefer a show to be:
b.) CB and established, healthy WC, this may help provide more variety. I get sick of seeing table after table of Leos and corn snakes. Also I do enjoy going to shows which allow venemous animals. I wouldn't purchase one, but I do have friends who would.

2. What is the number one reason you would choose to purchase an animal from one vendor over another?
a.) The quality of the vendor's animals
d.) The vendor's knowledge and willingness to answer questions, discuss the animals and be helpful in general.
I'm gonna have to go with both of these. And generally they go hand in hand. If a vendor cares about his/her animals then she will be willing to share the knowledge so that the buyer doesn't take it home and kill it.

3. Do you like to see other types of animals such as birds, mammals, etc being sold at reptile shows?
Yes, I think it helps attract others to the trade. Plus there are some neat things to see. I'm not turned off to the idea of buying a sugar glider or something similar. However, if these non-herps are going to be more frequent than a couple gerbils here, a cerval there, then the show shouldn't be marketed as a reptile show.

4. Do you attend educational talks at herp shows or are you there just to buy?
If it's interesting yes.

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
Alot of people bring their children to these shows so it's nice to keep the children involved. However, if it's a reptile show then the activities should be reptile related. The earlier that children are exposed to reptiles the less the fear they will have in the future. Plus if the moneys raised from these special activities benifits a charity it makes it all the better. (charity does not include keeping the camel fed)

6. What is the most you would be willing to pay for admission to a first rate reptile show?
b.) $10
I'd like to have $ left to spend at the show.

7. What's more important to you...a show that has a large number of vendors or a smaller show that is limited to well known or reputable vendors only?
Variety is most important to me. Which ever option gets the most variety of quality animals the better.

8. When do you ask a vendor to come down on their price?
a.) Every time...never hurts to ask
But Imake my hubby do it, I'm to shy.

9. Where do you make the majority of your reptile purchases?
a.) reptile shows
Ha ha ha, pet stores that's funny. I wouldn't purchase an animal around here from any of the lps's.

10. At what point do herp shows in a given area become so frequent that you lose interest?
b.) more than 4 a year
I need time to save money to spend at the shows. That and make space for the new arrivals.

11. Vendors blame the economy for poor sales at herp shows. Do you spend less on this hobby now than you did in the past?
Nope. Where there is a will there is a way (and a spare heating pad)

Originally posted by Clay Davenport

5. How do you feel about activities such as face painting, petting zoos, camel rides and photo opportunities with tigers being offer at a reptile show?
a. I enjoy these activities
b. I think these activities should have no place at a reptile show.
c. I don't care either way.

B. None of this nonsense has any place at a herp show. These type things are in a large way responsible for the degredation of the shows in general. People with no real interest beyond curiosity see it as a $7 ticket to a zoo and circus all in one. Bringing in these people benefits nobody other than the show promoter. It's annoying to those with a genuine interest and possibility of buying because it clogs up the place with sightseers and baby strollers, and it's basically a detriment to the vendors by making it difficult for real customers to get to their table while their busy answering questions like "is it poisonous?" and "can my 4 year old touch it?"

I recently made a post expressing a similar sentiment on kingsnake, and was basically flame-broiled for what I said.

forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=10

Isis Madec
Isis Reptiles

LOL. You do realize that a large percentage of KS's demographic is pre-teen to young teen. You basically told 70% of the readers of the post they weren't wanted. Valid argument or not, probably not the crowd that wanted to listen to it.

Back on subject, the reality is that promoters and a number of vendors (us included) reap the rewards of the "family" market. Even though this is a niche market, volume is the name of the game. And this is shown in the common shows.

If my game plan was to only sell/breed the high end animals I'd probably sharpen my internet business skills and never pack up for a show. Too much work when you can reach a larger group of people looking for high end stuff without getting up from your desk.

Originally posted by Isis Reptiles
I recently made a post expressing a similar sentiment on kingsnake, and was basically flame-broiled for what I said.

At the unavoidable risk of stepping on many toes, the kingsnake forums have degenerated into little more than an amatuer picture post. There are few long time herpers left there who have a real knowledge of what we do.
I abandoned the forums myself a few years ago. It just became pointless for me to go look at someone's new ball python they just brought home from Petco.
Any comments such as the ones you made are completely against the grain of the vast majority of people who frequent that internet playground.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. The biggest problem is what we consider to be serious herpers are an endangered species. People who have a deep interest in the animals themselves as opposed to a superficial "hey they're cool" attitude are getting more rare by the year.

I still attend a few shows, but almost never buy anything other than dry goods. The shows have become dominated by the big volume low end dealers who cater to that type of market. This is an unavoidable situation which eliminates the small breeder who values the animals and experience gained from working with them far above money.
It's a self perpetuating cycle. The big dealers are drawn by and at the same time draw the neophyte crowd. The end result is the serious herper is left without a reason to either attend or vend at most shows. Unfortunately our numbers are such that it doesn't really matter.

One day, I'd love to organize, or help to organize a herp show directed at us. No flashy preprinted banners, no big dealers, just an old fashioned show populated by dedicated breeders.
The profit potential of such a show is small however, so it would take that type of herper to organize it in the first place.
I guess at times I miss the days before Reptiles magazine, and all the money driven dealers who survive on moving huge numbers of entry level herps.

My greatest consolation is every year I do meet new keepers in who I can see the fire. They email me after browsing my website just to let me know they feel the same way, or we exchange emails off and on after they have bought something from me.
When I start getting tired of all the commercial crap we are bombarded with, and once again seriously consider just fading out and doing my thing in complete privacy, one of these people emails and renews my faith that there remain folks entering and participating in the hobby who still view reptiles as more than a simple commodity.

Clay, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Just FYI, I think there is a show in North Hollywood, CA that is just a show (no sales). I've never been to it but it would seem this would draw less of the general public.