Another disillisioned past contributor

Originally Posted by WebSlave

I guess that comment means more to you then it does to me....

You have no idea how much that means to me...LOL

Originally Posted by Bthacker

You have no idea how much that means to me...LOL

Yes. Irrelevance is irrelevant..........

Originally Posted by Chamco

Hey Rich, how come you have exactly 100 Karma points !! LOL ... I really don't need an answer !

That number is not my number of karma points. It is the POWER I would exert if I were to give positive or negative points. I can change that number at will, and as needed. I have had to use this in the past to neutralize some people who were abusing the system. By dropping them into negative karma rating, their own attempts to give or take karma to other people had then been thwarted.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

You were treated just like everyone else has been on this site.


If you break the rules, then you get penalized, regardless of who you are or what you have done here for this site. That is the only fair way to do it.

Rich, this is not intended to cast stones or to cause more of a ruckus over this topic but I was reading through this and the above struck me. I am in complete agreement with you that this site needed some hands slapped, mine included. However, you need to sit back and take a look at some of your own postings and see where the principles you state above are not in compliance with your own writings. I have seen you swear and respond to people on this board in a more derogatory/insulting manner then others who received fines for it.

For instance, Laura Cox was just suspended for calling someone a Nimrod yet you have used the swear word of "Damn" or "Damn It" (words that we all know are swear words) in some of your recent postings. I even reported one of those comments to you in the hopes that you would maybe take heed of some of the advice that you had just given out.

If your home is in disarray and you want to clean it up, then the "children" are going to look at the "parents" for a role model.

Griz

Griz says:
For instance, Laura Cox was just suspended for calling someone a Nimrod yet you have used the swear word of "Damn" or "Damn It" (words that we all know are swear words) in some of your recent postings. I even reported one of those comments to you in the hopes that you would maybe take heed of some of the advice that you had just given out.

I didn't go back through that entire thread, and respond here only on the premise that you have accurately described the reason for Laura's fine and suspension. I am also going on the assumption that she got the 10 points - automatic fine from it. If it was a lesser infraction, and merely only put her over the 10 point threshold, than I have no complaint. I don't believe that I can ascertain that from her signature area.

We know that there's a 10 point fine for the use of "derogatory words". I think we also know that you can navigate your way around this by avoiding a specific word, and doing a little word-smithing and still getting the same level of antagonism across. We also have this part of the explanation of the "Antagonism warning 1-point" in the BOI rules:

Although there may be some instances where getting to the truth may require a certain amount of antagonism towards a person who is possibly a bad guy, it can be overdone and overused.

Obviously, this is a judgement call on the part of the Mod's. I have argued in the past that it needs to be more of a tiered system, which is consistent with the above rules quote. The example of Laura's word "nimrod", if all is as I assumed above, is an example that begs for this. If she had used a more defamatory word or expression, OK. The arguement has been made in the past that the lesser penalties do not get the attention of the offender, and do not work. I realize that 2-3 points does not have the same impact as 10 points, but also feel that it has impact, especially when considered in light of the cumulative 10-point fine threshold. Once again, I think that the arguement and all of its opinions would be far more beneficial to the site if we were debating the difference between a 2 or 4 point offense, and not one point or "suspension and $10 fine".

Jim, the one and only warning that Laura has ever received was for using the word Nimrod. It was an immediately 10 point warning and she is now "fined & suspended".

If the use of the word "Nimrod" is deemed offensive then the use of the word "Damn" is equally so. What's good for the goose.......

Griz

Originally Posted by dutchoven

Rich, this is not intended to cast stones or to cause more of a ruckus over this topic but I was reading through this and the above struck me. I am in complete agreement with you that this site needed some hands slapped, mine included. However, you need to sit back and take a look at some of your own postings and see where the principles you state above are not in compliance with your own writings. I have seen you swear and respond to people on this board in a more derogatory/insulting manner then others who received fines for it.

For instance, Laura Cox was just suspended for calling someone a Nimrod yet you have used the swear word of "Damn" or "Damn It" (words that we all know are swear words) in some of your recent postings. I even reported one of those comments to you in the hopes that you would maybe take heed of some of the advice that you had just given out.

If your home is in disarray and you want to clean it up, then the "children" are going to look at the "parents" for a role model.

Griz

Sorry, but this is my call to make. It is my call, and that of the moderators, to determine what is considered as "derogatory" or "profanity". There are some people who would consider even the most lightweight terminology to be offensive to them. I don't believe I have ever warned a single soul for using the term "damn" in any context. I do not consider it vulgar nor profane in any context I can think of. Nor do I believe my mods have ever interpreted that word as being profane either. Of course, some people make take a more Victorian view of word usage, but that just is not the case on this site. Generally speaking, it is the usage of derogatory words or phrases directed at another person that will get a person in hot water here.

For instance, since you brought it up, Laura Cox called the person who was the topic of the thread she posted in a "Nimrod". Well before assessing the fine and suspension, I took the trouble to look up how that word is actually defined:

Informal. A person regarded as silly, foolish, or stupid.

Sounded pretty derogatory to me, so if I was not to appear to be inconsistent with past actions, I really had no other choice but to issue the warning points. I believe there were four other members who tripped the wire as well in that one thread, some of which were reported to me. Matter of fact, one person got fined and suspended for calling another member "stupid", so at least in this instance, I was trying to be consistent.

As for me speaking to members in an "derogatory/insulting manner", maybe, maybe not. Depends on your own perspective, I guess. My manner of speaking to people is pretty direct and to the point. Some people are offended by that, but I think you will have trouble finding me actually using profane or derogatory words or phrases. And I doubt you will find many instances of that since I laid down the law about enforcing the rules more strictly here. I do realize that I need to be on my best behavior as well.

But be that as it may, the whole crux of this matter is that I am now strenuously demanding that people simply cut out the derogatory stuff and be more circumspect in how they post. People can complain and resist all they like, but that is what is going to happen here, with or without them.

Originally Posted by dutchoven

Jim, the one and only warning that Laura has ever received was for using the word Nimrod. It was an immediately 10 point warning and she is now "fined & suspended".

If the use of the word "Nimrod" is deemed offensive then the use of the word "Damn" is equally so. What's good for the goose.......

Griz

Sorry, but that just is not your call to make here.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Sorry, but that just is not your call to make here.

You're right Rich, it's your playground and therefore we abide by your rules, no matter how inconsistent we may view them.

Definition of the word "damn" - noun = something of little value, verb = curse, adjective = expletive,

Rich, call it what you may, but here's my question "would you say the word Damn in front of your priest or minister and not feel as though you really slipped up? Not a chance and we both know why. It is a swear word and is universally accepted as such. Now, I would agree that when it comes to swear words it is the more harmless of those in which you could choose from but then again, so is Nimrod. It's like calling someone a doofus. Hardly an insult and in my humble opinion hardly worth accessing someone a fine for.

I have said my peace Rich and again, this was not intended with any disrespect. I was simply hoping that these inconsistenancies would be pointed out and accepted by you as such. I reckon that is not the case here and to be frank, that's a shame. But then again, as we have all been told, it's your playground.

Griz

Originally Posted by dutchoven

You're right Rich, it's your playground and therefore we abide by your rules, no matter how inconsistent we may view them.

Definition of the word "damn" - noun = something of little value, verb = curse, adjective = expletive,

Rich, call it what you may, but here's my question "would you say the word Damn in front of your priest or minister and not feel as though you really slipped up? Not a chance and we both know why. It is a swear word and is universally accepted as such. Now, I would agree that when it comes to swear words it is the more harmless of those in which you could choose from but then again, so is Nimrod. It's like calling someone a doofus. Hardly an insult and in my humble opinion hardly worth accessing someone a fine for.

I have said my peace Rich and again, this was not intended with any disrespect. I was simply hoping that these inconsistenancies would be pointed out and accepted by you as such. I reckon that is not the case here and to be frank, that's a shame. But then again, as we have all been told, it's your playground.

Griz

So in other words, since YOU say so then it MUST be so? Interesting perspective, but not a unique one around here, I must say.

It is not that I don't understand you, which means we don't need repetition or expansion of your opinion, it simply means I just disagree. Someone calling someone else a "doofus", "nimrod" or anything else myself or the moderators determine to be derogatory name calling will be fined and suspended. Period. I do not consider "damn" or "damn it" to be profanity and will not interpret it such within the enforcement of the rules here.

And about your "priest" analogy. I have actually heard priests use that terrm "damn" in sermons. "Damnation" is very commonly uttered and I don't see them being struct down by lightning bolts in doing so.

And since you picked this word as being clear evidence of my violation my own rules, perhaps looking at the definition of the word "damn", may be instructive:

damn ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dm)
v. damned, damn·ing, damns
v. tr.
1. To pronounce an adverse judgment upon. See Synonyms at condemn.
2. To bring about the failure of; ruin.
3. To condemn as harmful, illegal, or immoral: a cleric who damned gambling and strong drink.
4. To condemn to everlasting punishment or a similar fate; doom.
5. To swear at.

v. intr.
To swear; curse.

interj.
Used to express anger, irritation, contempt, or disappointment.

n.
The saying of “damn” as a curse.
Informal. The least valuable bit; a jot: not worth a damn.

adv. & adj.
Damned.

Idiom:
damn well
Without any doubt; positively: I am damn well going to file charges against him.

Well maybe I just missed it, but does anyone see anything at all in my rules about "swearing" or "cursing"?