Inbreeding

Just for those of you wondering, Teenie and Itty are now 14" long. Fireball is 8" long. They were all born October 31st, 2006, and are siblings.


Tere
That is great news and I am glad Fireball is growing and Teenie and Itty also

Thanks for the update

Originally Posted by walker75

I don't know...maybe my husbandry it [i]too good. Perhaps I should slack off a bit so that we can see the full effects of the adeno...


Your a smart butt person and an intiagator to say the least..

I really hope you are lucky enough and do not have it... for if it SHOULD happen to you .... you will then get the full picture and it is not a pretty one

It is in certain lines and colors but then I do not believe you have read enough to know which ones that may be

karen,i will say it for you. jamie, you are a smartazz,bltch,c***,piece of crap that doesnt even deserve to be on the bottom of my shoe.you are lower than low and if i get points for saying this then so be it. but you definately are those things and many ppl want to say it right now

I know walker. I was more of asking jamie to tell me if it doesnt have to do with a weakend immume system. I went through 3 grueling months of meds and force feeding along with daily sterilization and increased temps. I had 5 fecals done and used sulfa...... (cant remember the rest) for coccidia which didnt work, Albon twice which didnt work and 2 different kinds of panacur to finally get rid of hookworms and lower the coccidia count. The vet beleives that either Adeno or Inbreeding in her genes weakend her immune system to alow the levels to get that high and her body not to fight it off correctly. She basically has no immune system and for this reason I get a fecal done every 1-2 months to catch anything early. All this from probably 1 bad cricket. But I plan on testing her. Hopefully I can do it through my vet because id be lost doing the fixative.

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Jamie,

I know I probably don't have to say this, but I didn't either. Some of my Dachiu's are big, healthy and beautiful. They are also Adeno positive. I've said all this before. I had no issues at all our first breeding season, had no clue there was anything wrong. In fact, second season, we hatched out 4 different pairings...the last of the those four pairings was the babies that had Adeno, that so many were lost, or failed to thrive.

By that same token, I just lost an amazingly huge and perfectly sweet, beautiful, angelic dragon named Fiera. (Can't tell how bad I miss her, huh?) She was a Dachiu. She started out this year over 750 grams. She then (as per typical Adenovirus style) started laying infertile clutches...5 of them, to be exact. That last one quite literally kicked her butt, and I got the joy of watching my big girl wither away and die. So, no...I didn't need some necropsy to tell me what she died from. Had she not had Adenovirus, she probably wouldn't have laid 5 infertile clutches. Draw your conclusions from there.

Just for those of you wondering, Teenie and Itty are now 14" long. Fireball is 8" long. They were all born October 31st, 2006, and are siblings.

Anyway, just because you're not having issues now doesn't mean it's not there...or that you won't have issues in the future. I really do hate to say that because it makes me sick to think of anyone else going through this, but that's, unfortunately, how this virus works. There is definitely no rhyme or reason to it.

Concerning "adeno" symptoms showing up in later clutches...Is it not possible that these last clutches have just depleted the female? Or that there were some other complications? Was the male proven? (Sorry, I have to ask...). Was she checked for other reproductive problems? How do you know it was adeno that killed her if a necrospy was not performed? I'm not trying to be mean, I am just asking...


Jamie

Originally Posted by walker75

Just for those of you wondering, Teenie and Itty are now 14" long. Fireball is 8" long. They were all born October 31st, 2006, and are siblings.


Tere
That is great news and I am glad Fireball is growing and Teenie and Itty also

Thanks for the update

You're so welcome. I've been spending so much time on here (I know...huge shocker) that I really haven't had time--or the heart to update the website. I keep hoping if I don't put RIP Fiera, maybe she won't really be gone. I know. Now, I'm the nutjob.

There you go, guys...more ammunition.

Originally Posted by puppytoes72

karen,i will say it for you. jamie, you are a smartazz,bltch,c***,piece of crap that doesnt even deserve to be on the bottom of my shoe.you are lower than low and if i get points for saying this then so be it. but you definately are those things and many ppl want to say it right now

I love you too, puppytoes. Tee-hee.

Jamie

Originally Posted by Crazydude

I know walker. I was more of asking jamie to tell me if it doesnt have to do with a weakend immume system. I went through 3 grueling months of meds and force feeding along with daily sterilization and increased temps. I had 5 fecals done and used sulfa...... (cant remember the rest) for coccidia which didnt work, Albon twice which didnt work and 2 different kinds of panacur to finally get rid of hookworms and lower the coccidia count. The vet beleives that either Adeno or Inbreeding in her genes weakend her immune system to alow the levels to get that high and her body not to fight it off correctly. She basically has no immune system and for this reason I get a fecal done every 1-2 months to catch anything early. All this from probably 1 bad cricket. But I plan on testing her. Hopefully I can do it through my vet because id be lost doing the fixative.

Ben,

I'm sorry you and your dragon had to go through all this. I've got my fingers crossed for both of you that she stays healthy.

The fixative is really easy, and Lou Ann sends very detailed instructions. If you can follow instructions, you can do it. She's also really good about answering questions to help make sure you're doing it right.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Concerning "adeno" symptoms showing up in later clutches...Is it not possible that these last clutches have just depleted the female? Or that there were some other complications? Was the male proven? (Sorry, I have to ask...). Was she checked for other reproductive problems? How do you know it was adeno that killed her if a necrospy was not performed? I'm not trying to be mean, I am just asking...


Jamie

And I am happy to answer. Now, I'm not sure if you're asking about the babies, or Fiera, so I'm going to answer both. My post probably wasn't too clear, so I'm sure it's my fault.

If you're asking if the last clutches depleted the mother of the babies (Annie for easier distinction), she only had two clutches, so there shouldn't have been much depletion. She recovered fairly quickly after both the first and second clutches, and is now a rotund little woman. She was not tested for any reproductive issues, because it didn't appear she had any. Her boyfriend, Aristeaus, the father of the babies, was not proven until her.

Now, as for Fiera having reproductive issues, no, I did not have her tested for anything. She had several cluthes the year prior and did just fine, recovered fairly quickly and seemed pretty normal. She did have one infertile clutch (I would have to look at my records to be positive) I think the year before she was bred. From this infertile clutch, she recovered a bit slower. Okay...so fast forward back to this year...there was no male, the clutches were infertile.

I say I don't need a necropsy because she tested Adeno positive, and did what is a known Adeno symptom...laid numerous infertile clutches without being able to properly recover in between.

If it helps you feel any more comfortable with that, Wendy at Neverland has also reported the same symptoms in one of her huge females, as well.

crazydude

send the test in yourself it is easy.. Hb had almost 3 weeks of albon to rid his system of coccida and yes 1 cricket can do it. I feed a mixed variety now
supers roaches and hornworms....along with varied greems collard turnip mustard and dandelion no more crickets..

Man...I'm sorry, y'all. I just re-read that and it's really confusing. Jamie, if you still have questions, feel free to ask. Hopefully, you can get something from it.