Inbreeding

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

I love you too, puppytoes. Tee-hee.

Jamie

just keep breeding without testing and i hope you dont have to experience the hell that we have.we are dealing with the results of irresponsible breeders like you.just lay off tere,that is so low what you said to her

Originally Posted by Saladragon

And I am happy to answer. Now, I'm not sure if you're asking about the babies, or Fiera, so I'm going to answer both. My post probably wasn't too clear, so I'm sure it's my fault.

If you're asking if the last clutches depleted the mother of the babies (Annie for easier distinction), she only had two clutches, so there shouldn't have been much depletion. She recovered fairly quickly after both the first and second clutches, and is now a rotund little woman. She was not tested for any reproductive issues, because it didn't appear she had any. Her boyfriend, Aristeaus, the father of the babies, was not proven until her.

Now, as for Fiera having reproductive issues, no, I did not have her tested for anything. She had several cluthes the year prior and did just fine, recovered fairly quickly and seemed pretty normal. She did have one infertile clutch (I would have to look at my records to be positive) I think the year before she was bred. From this infertile clutch, she recovered a bit slower. Okay...so fast forward back to this year...there was no male, the clutches were infertile.

I say I don't need a necropsy because she tested Adeno positive, and did what is a known Adeno symptom...laid numerous infertile clutches without being able to properly recover in between.

If it helps you feel any more comfortable with that, Wendy at Neverland has also reported the same symptoms in one of her huge females, as well.

Thank you for the civil answer. So she was NOT bred the second year and still had 5 clutches? How big were the clutches?

Originally Posted by puppytoes72

karen,i will say it for you. jamie, you are a smartazz,bltch,c***,piece of crap that doesnt even deserve to be on the bottom of my shoe.you are lower than low and if i get points for saying this then so be it. but you definately are those things and many ppl want to say it right now

How hard is it for you to comprehend rules? If you lack the integrity to follow them, then why do everyone a favor and get lost, Michele.

Of course, I know this is going to trigger another bout of intellectual dishonesty from you about how unfair it is that you are held to the exact same standard of conduct as everyone else here, and that there's favoritism at play because no one who's not using profanity is getting warned... and so on and so forth.

Originally Posted by puppytoes72

karen,i will say it for you. jamie, you are a smartazz,bltch,c***,piece of crap that doesnt even deserve to be on the bottom of my shoe.you are lower than low and if i get points for saying this then so be it. but you definately are those things and many ppl want to say it right now

Do you always need to cuss..You can get your points across without the dirty, foul talk. It's very tasteless...

Originally Posted by Ken Harbart

How hard is it for you to comprehend rules? If you lack the integrity to follow them, then why do everyone a favor and get lost, Michele.

Of course, I know this is going to trigger another bout of intellectual dishonesty from you about how unfair it is that you are held to the exact same standard of conduct as everyone else here, and that there's favoritism at play because no one who's not using profanity is getting warned... and so on and so forth.

actually ken im not gonna complain at all about the points..they were soooooooo worth it that time

Originally Posted by mikey

Do you always need to cuss..You can get your points across without the dirty, foul talk. It's very tasteless...

actually i didnt cuss,i just implied it.perfect description of her though.i think what jamie said was far more tasteless than cussing anyways.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Thank you for the civil answer. So she was NOT bred the second year and still had 5 clutches? How big were the clutches?

Nope. I had planned on breeding her to Adonis, then we got the Adeno results back, and all the breeding plans were no longer. She was never bred this year, and just started laying...and laying...and laying some more.

If I remember correctly (another one I'd have to check my records for), the clutches were between 20 and 25 each, nothing that a strong, healthy female shouldn't be able to handle...except for that infertile part. When I say I'd have to check my records...my sweet darling husband moved my dragon chart, and I found it once, only to forget where the heck it was.

See? We can be civil to each other! And thank you for the civil question.

Im going to ask where exactly she came from next time im at the reptile shop I got her from. But the dragons they sell are they dragons they hatched exept a few that come from this place. So I might ask well email the place and ask. Because I do feel that adeno or inbreeding come into play in my case.

Ill email Lou Ann when I get a chance but would it be better to try to get PCR testing done? Or is it fine either way. I remember that PCR is suposidly more accurate but im not sure.

Right now shes on supers but im looking into roaches and have been looking into worms, Just cant bring myself to pay 10 bucks for shipping 10 bucks of worms from mulberry and risk she doesnt like them, Any chance anyone knows a east coast place that carries silks/horns? But thats OT, sorry.

Just a quick question, How far back does chromosones carry Family DNA, For example with enough outbreeding can it clean out the related DNA or is there always a trace there.

Im sorry about Fiera but glad to hear Itty bitty and Teiny Tiny are growing, Ive been checkin your site every so often for updates.

And I know by the time I post this there will be 2 more pages but ohh well.

Thanks for your help both of you

Hey Crazydude your welcome and you have asked many a fine questions here and in the locked thread I thank you for that.

to bad we have no answers to them

I'll send ya a pm so this stays on topic about inbreeding

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Nope. I had planned on breeding her to Adonis, then we got the Adeno results back, and all the breeding plans were no longer. She was never bred this year, and just started laying...and laying...and laying some more.

If I remember correctly (another one I'd have to check my records for), the clutches were between 20 and 25 each, nothing that a strong, healthy female shouldn't be able to handle...except for that infertile part. When I say I'd have to check my records...my sweet darling husband moved my dragon chart, and I found it once, only to forget where the heck it was.

See? We can be civil to each other! And thank you for the civil question.

Did you see any problems with her hatchlings the year before like you did with the tiny dragons? Or were these hers from the year before? (Sorry, I am not totally sure of what happened at what time). I have heard that inbreeding (which we have already determined is inevitable to some degree) will cause dwarfism and other issues to show up more often. I just wonder if that could be a factor with your tiny dragons. Have they tested positive?

Jamie