breeding

Robby,
With all due respect please answer some questions I have about yourself:

1) How old are you?

2) If you are a student, what grade are you in?

3) If you are an adult, what grade school did you complete?

4) Are you seriously considering becoming a herpetologist and herp breeder; or are you trolling?

5) Do you realize that if you want to become a herpetologist/breeder you should start the right way?

6) If the answer is yes, then why are you not listening to the advice some people are giving you?

7) Do you realize that many of the people who have given you advice so far are in the herp business professionally? (Not me - I have a real job - sorry guys - LOL).

8) Do you also realize that most everyone is trying to be helpful to you; but it seems as if you do not appreciate that fact?

9) Do you realize that if you are serious about your hoped for career goals, it is a bit hard for some to believe because of your grammar and your apparent attitude?

Now you can get really defensive, or you can think about these questions as objectively as possible - and then maybe the light will come on. No one here is trying to give you a hard time, but maybe you should change your tune a bit and maybe even practice playing it a bit clearer - things may then go smoother.

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley

Robby,
Contrary to what you might think, we're trying to help you. You've received some sound pointers from a number of us who have "been there, done that". What you choose to do with those pointers is up to you. No one is trying to deter you from breeding herps. What we are trying to do is give you a realistic impression of what to expect- more money going out than coming in.

Realistically, there's more financial losses than there are gains for most people. You might be lucky enough to slightly offset the cost of caring for your animals, but I wouldn't go so far as to think that they'll pay for themselves or turn a profit. It takes a long time before you'll even be out of the red, so I'd give up hopes of having extra gas money. On the contrary, I'd be more likely to anticipate sacrificing some gas and entertainment money in order to provide for your animals' needs.

Once gain, you can take the advice and constructive criticism and do with it as you wish, but I ask you, why ask a question if you refuse to listen to the answers?

Robby,


I started breeding rodents when I was 10 years old and got into reptiles at the age of 14.

Before I started breeding reptiles I was able to help out a local breeder of reptiles for alittle over 2 years. This way I could learn as much as I could before I took on the task of breeding myself.

The best thing I have for all my animals is books and alot of them. I mean I have been breeding rodents for over 18 years and I still will buy a new mouse or rat book I do not own.

Same thing with any other animal I have. I believe all people who want to raise any animal should buy a book first and then decide if that animal is for them. Shoot I have many books on animals I may never raise myself but they interested me and once I had read the book I decided this one isn't for me.

I have been doing this for many years now and I swear sometimes I feel like I am spending alot more then I will ever make. But the thing is I love the animals I am working with so at this point. I am very happy to break even.

The biggest key to being a succesful breeder is to love the animals you are working with because if you do not, then when things get rough and they do. You will give up.

So what I am trying to say is start out for the love of the animals and in time if you work hard at it, you may in the long away furture be able to make a profit and breed animals for a living.

ok guys i know you are helping me!!!!
will you stop telling me
ok now that i said that
im 16
im in 10th grade
i cannot spell very well to begin with and im used to typing to pleaple on aim so you can see where the slang is from im sorry ahead of time
yes i am very serious about becomeing a breeder and a herpetologist. i may not spell for dilly squat but i have 110 in math and science witch is where i want to go with my life
if i only had my word prosseser working i would type there and paste but i cant cause it wont work
i posted here so i would get a feel for what i will get in the real world along with trying to get some information
now i am told that im reseaving info but i dont understand how
can some1 please tell me in lamins terms exactly what im being told cause its agrivating me and you all
and i think if we got it out of the way alittle stess will be released from our sholders
thank you

Robby
I lamens terms, as simple as possible

You will spend more in the long run

Nobody here is telling not to breed {reptiles <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> }

You might get lucky once

Learn more

Experience Takes years

And most of all
&nbsp; &nbsp; good luck <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

yeah i know
i am gana do so that point got through to my thick scull lol
i thought there was somthin else

well im gana do what im told
and start with a speacies i like
im now looking to get a blue tong skink or a pair of babys
and go fromg there

Actually, you have been given advice. spam_Here's just a few examples of it:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Alvaro - As with regards to species if I were you I would start with those that are easy to maintain and do not require a lot of room. Those that bear live ofspring might be a choice for a beginner. The rocommendation of rosy boas was a good one, kenyan sand boas are also popular, and easy to keep and breed. I would stay away from turtles/tortoises because of the turn around time it takes to breed them. The species to choose will also might be influenced by the state where you are at. Breeding turtles and tortoises in an open lot in Florida is one thing. Trying to do the same thing in North Dakota will be a challenging and costly. Think first where are you going to be buying or raising your feed. That's always a major concern.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Alvaro again - Honestly even if you don't like snakes think about a species that is very little demanding. Easy to find feed for, stick with and enjoy it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Seamus - doing it right is more important than doing it fast or doing it easy?!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ken - What we are trying to do is give you a realistic impression of what to expect- more money going out than coming in.
Realistically, there's more financial losses than there are gains for most people. You might be lucky enough to slightly offset the cost of caring for your animals, but I wouldn't go so far as to think that they'll pay for themselves or turn a profit. It takes a long time before you'll even be out of the red, so I'd give up hopes of having extra gas money. On the contrary, I'd be more likely to anticipate sacrificing some gas and entertainment money in order to provide for your animals' needs.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Franklin Edwards - The biggest key to being a succesful breeder is to love the animals you are working with because if you do not, then when things get rough and they do. You will give up.

So what I am trying to say is start out for the love of the animals and in time if you work hard at it, you may in the long away furture be able to make a profit and breed animals for a living.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Everyone is trying to make you see, you don't get into keeping and breeding reptiles to make money - which clearly seems to be your goal from your comments. spam_Yes, some few people make a living at it - a very few that breed high end animals or those with extensive breeding facilities. spam_The majority of us have real jobs that pay the bills and we do this as a hobby. spam_At best the sale of animals offsets SOME of the costs of keeping them but by no means do any of us make any real profit at it. spam_If you are keeping the animals properly, feeding them well and providing for all of their needs and the setup and needs of their offspring, you most likely will not make a profit for years to come. spam_As for getting animals from an adoption site and breeding them, yes many of them are still able to breed, BUT almost all of the sites that offer reptiles for adoption have you sign a contract that you will not breed the animals you get. spam_Even if they don't have a contract of that nature, unless you know the person running the site, they aren't going to let you adopt a breedable pair in most cases if they even HAVE a breedable pair.

Let me give you an example of the costs involved of keeping and breeding boas. spam_When I bred my Bci in 99/00 and the female gave birth in June 2000, 15 of the 18 offspring were sold at wholesale over the course of the summer and fall for a total of $600. spam_I kept 2 as holdbacks and gave one to a friend in trade for her artwork. spam_It costs me roughly $150 every 3 months for food for my collection right now. spam_Back then it was higher because I had a different supplier that cost more per item and was not as reliable as who I use now, meaning I often had to buy prey items from the pet store. spam_Add to that the cost of the setup I had to purchase to keep the offspring in ($50 for a used 40 gallon tank, another $30 for the screen lid, $5-$10 for clips to keep it securely closed, and $30-$40 for the heating fixures). spam_Now, I couldn't sell any neonates before they fed and then I could only sell 2-4 young at one time, so I had to feed the rest while they were still in my care - 1-2 prey items once per week for boas. spam_I also had to have them checked by a qualified vet before I could sell the first one because I was wholesaling them to a local petstore ($85 vet visit plus over an hour drive to get to him). spam_Are you getting the big picture yet?

Boas are some of the most basic snakes to care for aside from the colubrids like corns or kings. spam_The boas give live birth so there are no eggs to incubate. spam_Corns and kings lay eggs, as do many of the lizards and geckos. spam_When you get into egg layers, you have to purchase or make an incubator for the eggs plus the cost of a setup and food for the young once they're hatched. spam_Many animals can't be kept in a colony, even the babies, and individual enclosures need to be bought or made. spam_Even if you are going the route of many breeders and using individual plastic shoeboxes, they are generally .79 to $1 each plus making or buying a rack and heating element. spam_None of this has even taken into account the TIME - time to clean cages, change water bowls, and feed the animals. spam_If you choose to raise your own prey items (rodents, crickets, etc.) instead of purchasing them for each feeding, then you also have the cost of a setup for them as well as their food and time to clean, water, etc. spam_Many lizards require fresh greens and produce as well as specialized lights that provide UV which they NEED and they also need to be fed daily, especially as juveniles. spam_So then there is the expense of a daily diet of produce plus the time to make a salad for them each day. spam_If they are daily eaters, that also means they defecate daily and you'll have daily cage cleaning duties. spam_

All this finally adds up to this - there are no shortcuts. spam_If you want to be successful, the animals need to be well cared for first. spam_Expect to lose money, this is a hobby for people with a love of the animals they work with, not for those who wish to make money off of them alone. spam_If you don't love the animals that you're working with, you won't take good care of them. spam_The animals lose as does anyone who purchases them. spam_Just read the BOI, it's full of stories of people with get rich quick schemes selling inferior animals at 'great prices'. spam_How long do any of those people last? spam_How many have a good reputation? spam_The best advise? spam_Find something you like, learn to care for it properly, try breeding it because it's an animal you want to work with, not because it's supposed to be the easy one to breed. spam_

One last thing, only you can make a difference in your education and it's up to you to learn. spam_It doesn't matter how good you are in math or science if you don't have the basics of language. spam_College professors are not high school teachers with overcrowded classrooms. spam_You pay to be there and they expect you to perform and not waste their time. spam_You will be expected to be able to write complete sentences using proper grammar and acurate spelling. spam_Even if every mathmatics problem is perfect and all your scientific theories are correct, you will not pass if the work isn't up to par. spam_School is hard, life is harder. spam_Believe me, I've been there.

Dianne

Robby,

OK, you answered my questions and I am convinced you are serious and have some experience so I will answer yours, but bear in mind I only sell animals to help pay for my hobby (although I plan to sell as a business in the next few years).

I just bought some Bearded Dragons from a breeder at a very good price. I got ten of them for about $250 shipped. I sold seven of them for between $35 and $45 each (average price $40 each). I got $280 back on my investment before other expenses. The other expenses included a tank, reptile bulb, light fixture, heat lamp, sand and screen top, food, cost of table space at a Reptile show, tolls and gas to get to show, wear and tear on my car getting to two shows, and about 40 hours of my time. All in &nbsp;all before I sold those guys I spent about another $110. That is a total of $360 for ten Bearded Dragons of which I sold seven for (do you remember the price) $280. That leaves me with what may be thought of as a loss of $80; however for that $80 I wound up, so to speak, &nbsp;with: a tank, a clamp lamp for heat, a flouresecent light fixutre, a reptile bulb, some sand, a screen top and three Bearded Dragons (of which I can only hope I do not have three males). If I am lucky enough to have a male and two females I will have lots of babies next year - and I will sell them at a decent price. If not I know someone who will take extra males and trade me females. By the way I found my prices were low and yes that did sell them somewhat quickly but only because plenty of people who bought them had seen me at the shows before. I could have easily sold them for more, and next time I will, but not too much more.

The choice you seem to want to make on Blue Tongued Skinks is a real iffy proposition as they are extremely difficult to correctly sex even when adults. You might do best to buy a proven adult pair. They will cost more, but at least you will know for certain you have a pair since they have successfully produced offspring before you bought them.

Good luck.

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley

thats what i am planing on doing
or im gana find breeders that have probed them because i read thats the sure way to tell
but im undisided
im going to do bts or beardies
and then latter on i might get 1.1 arrows but who knows time will tell
by the way any one know any good breederes of bts

I was going to say you are still not listening, but maybe no one said this yet: forget the Blue Tongue Skinks unless you get a guaranteed sexed adult pair or trio. It is extremely difficult to sex Blue Tongued Skinks even for experts; and PROBING IS NOT A SURE WAY TO TELL IN BTS. Even when checked by xray examination it is sometimes difficult to sex them properly. The best way to assure you get a sexed pair is to buy a proven pair - meaning they have successfully bred in the past. Why do you think they are not as popular a lizard as they should seemingly be?

The bearded dragons would be easier to sex, are easy to care for, pretty easy to breed, and right now are still pretty easy to sell. That will last maybe another year or two until their popularity is overshadowed by something else.

Rankins Dragons may also be a way to go - basically a smaller version of the bearded Dragon. They may catch on because of people who want a smaller easy to keep lizard.

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley