A favor please regaurding owens the "moderator"

I feel that the amount that Wes owes to return is a bit excessive! He was making a play on words with Ryan Trude's last name, very Wes like to transpose the letter's and leave one out, turning Trude into Turd. As far as the post that got him suspended, the issue of voids is a very volatile subject in its self. Just my 02 cents on the matter. I miss Wes and his off beat humor and he keeps things a little more interesting.

Originally Posted by Laura Cox

I feel that the amount that Wes owes to return is a bit excessive! He was making a play on words with Ryan Trude's last name, very Wes like to transpose the letter's and leave one out, turning Trude into Turd. As far as the post that got him suspended, the issue of voids is a very volatile subject in its self. Just my 02 cents on the matter. I miss Wes and his off beat humor and he keeps things a little more interesting.

Yes, the fine is excessive. But there is a reason for that:

Each subsequent time you find yourself in the position of getting suspended again, the fine will doubled until we have finally raised the bar higher then you are willing to jump over to get back on here. That is known as the 'Good Riddance" point in our relationship.

I made this perfectly clear from the start, and Wes definitely was aware of the penalty he was risking. The fact that it was Jay who suspended him is irrelevant. If I had seen the post myself, I would have had no choice but to do likewise. If Wes desires to make this issue into a personality conflict instead of facing the simple fact that he got what he asked for, regardless of who administered it, then that is completely up to him. The facts are clearly laid out for all interested parties to audit.

(Truth be told, you would have to be an idiot to read this entire thread! 80-90% of it is nothing more than people goading Bill into making a complete fool out of himself...and it worked. )

Where are the points for Jay for calling people idiots here?

thats okay, I've been hit by Owens for petty things that you and many others have gotten away with COUNTLESS times in the past...... there is always an excuse too. I've learned to simply ignore it and realise no matter what is said, it depends on his general attitude and mood at that given moment, nothing more nothing less...

at least the other staff seem to enforce such these rules and guidelines equally, even if i may not be happy with it at the time its still fair. cant complain about those........

There is a simple solution. Simply don't post anything that may even slightly be in violation of the rules and you don't have a thing to worry about. If you even THINK your post might be a violation, just don't post it. Change the wording and err on the side of caution, if necessary.

Some words mean different things to different people. In those cases, assume the worst, just to be safe.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

There is a simple solution. Simply don't post anything that may even slightly be in violation of the rules and you don't have a thing to worry about. If you even THINK your post might be a violation, just don't post it. Change the wording and err on the side of caution, if necessary.

Some words mean different things to different people. In those cases, assume the worst, just to be safe.

If there is NOT consistent enforcement of the rules then there really are NO rules at all, just a few guys who can arbitrarily decide that "this" time was one time too many.

Will there be consistency now? IF I report a post for an obvious violation WILL the violator be held accountable? Will points be issued? Does this apply to ALL, ie moderators, or just the members?

And, if I do decide to become one of those guys who reports EVERY post that I, just me, think is in violation, will THAT have any effect on how I, just me, am treated?

It may sound as if I ask in jest but, I do not.

Originally Posted by wilomn

If there is NOT consistent enforcement of the rules then there really are NO rules at all, just a few guys who can arbitrarily decide that "this" time was one time too many.

That's the problem with having more then one person moderating. Or for that matter, having even one person who is a human being and may have opinions and feelings one day that are not the same as they were yesterday. We are not robots. We have opinions and moods, and anything WE do can be affected by the mood of the moment. Maybe I had a rough day and the BS that wouldn't bother me ordinarily does NOW. Maybe my patience level is much shorter today then it was yesterday for one reason or another. And that applies to any of the moderators here as well. That's just the way it is. If that is unacceptable to someone, then I guess you are looking for perfection where none can possibly exist. I certainly know that it does not exist HERE and never will. I believe a lowering of expectations on your part may be of value to your peace of mind.

Originally Posted by wilomn

Will there be consistency now?

No more or less then there has been in the past. I haven't heard of any changes taking place here that would be relevant.

Originally Posted by wilomn

IF I report a post for an obvious violation WILL the violator be held accountable?

Possibly, but not necessarily. Just because someone feels a post is in violation and reports it is no guarantee that myself or the moderators have to agree. I tend to completely ignore reported posts when they are of the nature of "Mommy, Johnnie is picking on me! Punish him, please!"

Originally Posted by wilomn

Will points be issued?

Not necessarily. See above.

Originally Posted by wilomn

Does this apply to ALL, ie moderators, or just
the members?

Moderators can be reported on, just as anyone else. They are free to post here as private individuals and run the risk of running afoul of the rules just as anyone else. But someone with an obvious chip on their shoulder over a particular moderator will likely be ignored. And as mentioned above, there is no guarantee that the other moderators or myself will agree with the person reporting the post.

Originally Posted by wilomn

And, if I do decide to become one of those guys who reports EVERY post that I, just me, think is in violation, will THAT have any effect on how I, just me, am treated?

If you use it excessively and bordering on abusively, you will most certainly be ignored pretty quickly. No one here is obligated to act on what someone wants us to do, and it will soon become obvious what your intentions are. If it becomes REALLY excessive, I will pay my programmer to make those reporting options a selectable option that I can disable when needed for users abusing them.

Originally Posted by wilomn

It may sound as if I ask in jest but, I do not.

I probably don't sound like I am responding in jest. And I am not.

I have no chip on my shoulder about owens.

I have no respect for owens. In my opinion he is NOT a good moderator and I am NOT the only one to have suffered his bias.

If you're looking for people to second guess what they can and cannot say, you are well on the road to that goal. Selective enforcement leads to chaos.

You won't see me calling him any names or referring to him at all other than to make a point. I have nothing against him, so you can relieve yourself of concern for the chip that does not exist.

Now, to be clear, there will be NO consistent enforcement of the rules. Should someone violate rules, rules for which some of us have been awarded points, and that someone is reported, there is not any way of knowing whether or not that other person will be held accountable to the same standard as anyone else.

Gotcha.

Basically, it's a free for all; a do it if you feel you can get away with it, but don't whine to Rich or anyone else if today you get points for what yesterday was ignored.

Excellent well then. I now understand that nothing means anything if someone is in a pissy mood or, whether merely imagined or factually realized. I am now fully cognizant of the fact that when it comes right down to it, consistency will not be obtainable.

Thank you for clearing that up.

One more thing for you Rich. Twice I have asked this question and twice you have not answered so here it is one more time.

Did you or did you not let it be known that if I, just me, even reported a post by gubitz that I, just me, would be suspended?

No Wes, there will be no consistency. One moderator gave me positive rep points for my signature line a week or so ago and another gave me a warning point and deleted it.

Originally Posted by wilomn

I have no chip on my shoulder about owens.

I have no respect for owens. In my opinion he is NOT a good moderator and I am NOT the only one to have suffered his bias.

If you're looking for people to second guess what they can and cannot say, you are well on the road to that goal. Selective enforcement leads to chaos.

I hate to be a wet blanket to anyone's aspirations to greatness, but all of your written words are not what myself and the moderators are just waiting with baited breath to read each time you post. That is not just directed at you, Wes, but to everyone. We do not read every post made by everyone on this site. In my case, I only read what is of personal interest to me, or what is brought to my attention. So if someone feels that a post that was not read by anyone that warrants warning points, and did not get them simply because none of the moderators happened to read it, then have at it. I will tell you right here and right now that I absolutely REFUSE to read every word of every post made on this site by everyone. And in the same vein, I absolutely REFUSE to demand such a thing from my moderators. And I am sorry if some of you think that we have that kind of time to spend here doing such a thing.

If such a situation leads to "chaos", then so be it. But my personal opinion is that such a prediction is rather silly and over dramatic.

Originally Posted by wilomn

You won't see me calling him any names or referring to him at all other than to make a point. I have nothing against him, so you can relieve yourself of concern for the chip that does not exist.

I am glad to hear that Wes. I would hate to think you paid your latest fine just to do so and get suspended and fined yet again.

Originally Posted by wilomn

Now, to be clear, there will be NO consistent enforcement of the rules. Should someone violate rules, rules for which some of us have been awarded points, and that someone is reported, there is not any way of knowing whether or not that other person will be held accountable to the same standard as anyone else.

Gotcha.

No, I don't think you "got it" at all. Please read my above statements about reading all of the posts on this site, Wes, Read it over and over again until it finally sinks in. Somehow you have gotten it into your head that there is some sort of requirement for myself and the moderators to run this site exactly how YOU want it to be run. I am here to tell you that this is not the case. I don't think exactly like you, and probably none of the moderators do as well. To say that they will see the posts exacatly the same way you do, in exactly the same light and with the same interpretation is just downright foolish. You are saying that if you report a post, YOU must absolutely be right in your determination that it warrants warning points and we have no other choice but to assess points because you say so. Sorry you feel this way, but that simply just is not the case. Many posts are reported that are just downright frivolous, sometimes spiteful, and in other cases simply a matter of one pissing duel member pissing at the other. Sorry, but I decline to get involved in such matters. And I specifically will not assist someone in their pissing duel.

Originally Posted by wilomn

Basically, it's a free for all; a do it if you feel you can get away with it, but don't whine to Rich or anyone else if today you get points for what yesterday was ignored.

Maybe, maybe not. Make your posts and take your chances. Please read the above statements again. It definitely is not sinking in, I think.

Originally Posted by wilomn

Excellent well then. I now understand that nothing means anything if someone is in a pissy mood or, whether merely imagined or factually realized. I am now fully cognizant of the fact that when it comes right down to it, consistency will not be obtainable.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Glad to oblige. I hope that wasn't the only reason you paid your fine to come back here. And I am honored to meet someone who apparently has the same opinions, regardless of mood, or external events affecting their attitude, day in and day out, 24/7, 365 days a year. I am impressed. But wait a minute! How many times have I heard you say something along the lines of "I'm in a mellow mood today, so I will let this slide" in reference to a reply to a post someone else made, Wes? I'm not going to research this, but I would bet money I have seen YOU type in something along this line. Imagine that........... Now imagine if you were a moderator here. Would that then be considered as inconsistent? Or are you above all that as you seem to be claiming? Do as I say and not as I do, Wes? The moderators here are not allowed to be as human as you are?

Originally Posted by wilomn

One more thing for you Rich. Twice I have asked this question and twice you have not answered so here it is one more time.

Did you or did you not let it be known that if I, just me, even reported a post by gubitz that I, just me, would be suspended?

No I did not. What I said, while you and Neil Gubitz were engage in a pissing duel between yourselves, and I was getting reported posts and complaints from both of you about the other, was that if EITHER of you reported (i.e. whined to me about...) the other to me again, then the one making that report would get suspended. I had had quite enough of both of you and that was that. If two people have a problem with each other, act like adults and settle your differences between yourselves in private. If you want to make a public spectacle of yourselves, well that's up to you, but don't expect to drag myself or the moderators into it, and especially not in an effort to make it appear that we support one side or the other.

So no, it was not "just you". It was BOTH of you.

And furthermore, Wes, if this WAS the only reason you paid your fine to be back here, forget about it. I just don't have time to become one of your pissing duel partners. You have been on this site long enough to see it's strengths and weaknesses, and I am making you this offer: Take it or leave it. It will never please everyone. It will never be perfect. I will never please everyone. I will never be perfect. I am NOT going to even try. It's the best I can make it, and anyone not happy with it, is welcome to go elsewhere to seek out whatever it is that they feel they need that is lacking here.