ANOUNCEMENT! New 2007 Policies!

As I said earlier, this is interesting. Your motives may genuinely be purely altruistic and if so, then who can fault you for sincerely wanting to help others? However, as has been pointed out, your actions are not without problems.

Originally Posted by highendherps

I also feel that this opportunity enables the less privileged, whom often work MUCH harder to make a living than the upper classes, to make some lucrative investments that can make them 10 to 20-fold their investment in less than 3 years and thus they can then have a better, more rewarding life.

Do NOT make the assumption that the vast majority of people who earn above average incomes work less than those who earn lower incomes. When most of my friends, who still earn lower then average incomes, were out partying when they were younger, I was going to school full-time and working full-time. It was that dedication that allowed me to earn the income that I have now. And, as a business owner, I guarantee you that I work just as hard, if not harder then your average worker. What I earn, what I own, is due solely to my hard work and not the gift of others.

Secondly, you mention in your earlier posts that you are doing this so that the individuals earning a lower than average income can make a 10-20 times return on their investments. While the thought, in theory at least, might be noble it is also very poor advice. Not many people can reap that kind of return let alone if their incomes are at levels that prohibit them from paying normal retail prices of said animals. Truly, the only person here that is benefiting is you with the increase in sales. The advice that they need to hear is the value in a 401K, or in using flex credits through their employer, or even life insurance. To advise individuals who are having a hard time making ends meet to invest in animals vs making sure they have life insurance, is poor advice to say the least.

Again, assuming your intentions are noble, I understand what you are doing although I disagree with it. To think that my years of hard work and labor to get where I am today is now being met with a "your price for xyz animal is twice what Joe Schmoe on welfare is" is rather hard to swallow regardless of your intent.

David, this is simply one man's opinion and the other side of the coin. Regardless, I wish you well on your endeavors and hopefully future one's will be a bit better thought out.

Griz

I'm having trouble articulating why this idea is offensive to me, but I think it boils down to the following:

I find it a bit presumptuous (can I say arrogant?) for a reptile breeder to adjust prices for "people who need a leg up" based on arbitrary measurements like income or cost of living. There are many many factors that affect how much money a person is willing or able to spend on herps.

Breeding herps is hardly a quick route to lifelong financial success. You are not doing these people (or the animals) any favours by selling them off like meal tickets. I find it unethical. Many people have already gone into debt to buy animals under the assumption that there's a big payoff in a few years. That's like taking out a second morgage to buy lottery tickets. There's a neverending stream of posts about the ball market crashing, and unexpected losses. And if there's no payoff?

I also believe your heart is on the right place, but I'm sure that you could help out the "disadvantaged" in some other way that does not discriminate against everyone else.

What happens when you have to raise your regular prices just to make a profit?

How about choosing a person or charitable cause each month that you feel would benefit the most from your generosity, and give them a free herp? Or have a draw. You would get more interest from people who wouldn't be able to afford to buy the animal, than the "well-off" ones that already have three.

No offense meant, just trying to predict the consequences of your decision. On the up side you will have some very happy people.

What happens when you have to raise your regular prices just to make a profit?

Or the flip side, what happens (to their investment) when the reduced price becomes the norm.

As mentioned by Bob and others, the notion to want to help those in need is noble.

However, much of this troubles me, as displayed in these quotes of you David:

There are a lot of folks that just barely make ends meet and I came up with this notion so as to help such people to have an opportunity to actually turn things around for themselves. To be able to generate more income so as to have a better life.

Most of us are likely just as noble when we donate to charities. We "donate" though, and do not "sell at half price". We do not then toot our own horn about our intent to donate, or to "sell" cheap.

I merely made this announcement and posted about it on our site because I must let the herp world at large know what we are doing here for the less fortunate.

Must ? David, call me the classic cynic, but all I see here is you tooting your own horn in a most unflattering way to many of us. This of braggadocio not normally seen with charitable intentions.

Have to go with Griz on this one:

Truly, the only person here that is benefiting is you with the increase in sales.

Not only for the potential increase in sales, but for the rather naked attempts to high-five oneself. I feel like I'm watching a bad "you too can become rich" infomercial aimed at the poor. I think that Leah nailed it with the word "arrogant". IMMHO, this was not the way to do it, and it reaks.

I think its a poor idea all the way around. First off, if a person can't afford to pay full price for an animal, what is going to happen when that snake gets a RI and needs veterinary care? I can pretty much guarantee it will sit in its enclosure until it dies of illness. Second, why would you ever tell people that they are going to make money breeding animals. Yes it can be done, but for a low income family, I don't think its the safe choice. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money in the last few years on animals, caging, supplies and vet visits. This is not a get rich quick business and its just flat out irresponsible to sell it as such to those who might be looking for a quick way out of a bad financial situation. Lets also not forget that David specializes in large constrictors. Where are the low income housing families going to put a 14+' snake? Why not just sell snakes and keep the self promotion to a minimum?

Originally Posted by Griz

Secondly, you mention in your earlier posts that you are doing this so that the individuals earning a lower than average income can make a 10-20 times return on their investments. While the thought, in theory at least, might be noble it is also very poor advice. Not many people can reap that kind of return let alone if their incomes are at levels that prohibit them from paying normal retail prices of said animals. Truly, the only person here that is benefiting is you with the increase in sales. The advice that they need to hear is the value in a 401K, or in using flex credits through their employer, or even life insurance. To advise individuals who are having a hard time making ends meet to invest in animals vs making sure they have life insurance, is poor advice to say the least.

I think this is probably the biggest part of what I see wrong with the whole plan, David. I know all too many people that have gotten involved in risky investments they really can't afford to begin with, thinking that they are going to find a quick and easy "leg up"....only to end up in worse shape than when they started due to circumstances out of their control. Folks that are financially strapped to begin with need to look first and foremost to secure investments that they KNOW will be there when their family is in need. Investment in ANY animal is risky, and as much as you plan on "being there" to help that person out...there is always going to be risks that some people just can't afford to take. Griz is right on the money with this one...pun intended.

That, and as Jamie reiterated..I worry about the ability to properly care for the animals if they can't afford to buy them at the first place.

Sure, I've given a "deal" here and there to folks, and it's nice to be able to do so, but I never do so with the promise that they will be making a financial return on the animal. It's strictly for the giving them the joy of having them as a pet.

A noble idea.

However you may be positioning yourself contrary to The Robinson-Patman Act of 1936. Additionally, the FTC Act and the Sherman Act may have relevance as well.

Its less the price differentiation than the stated goal. By differentiating price in order to position an individual or entity to engage in trade within a competitive market and thus providing an advantage in that market you may be seen as engaging in anti-competitive behavior. If you cannot prove that these relationships result in a demonstrable reduction in your product cost that would have relevance in furnishing your goods at a reduced cost - you indeed have violated the Robinson-Patman Act of 1936.

But I'm sure you have vetted your plan with a qualified trade attorney (which I clearly am not).

At any rate I wish you the best with your new policy.

This whole idea is also absurd in the sense that with this " program " or what have you, the animals are looked at as " investment opportunities ". I always abhor that attitude. While making money in breeding is always a good thing in itself, I find this whole view upon the animals, from High End Morphs perspective, unhealthy and also as nothing more than supposed ways to make money and to make it unrealistically.

Who can guarantee in 2 or 3 years that these snakes will make the money back for the owners to be able to enjoy better opportunities to begin with? You can not guarantee that at all.

Also, let's say if the " market price " is still going strong and not lowered much by then, who's to say how many buyers there will be for everyone's certain morphs? What if hardly anything is selling? There are times where there is more supply than demand. I think it is safe to say that now with the quadrillions of ball pythons still not sold, it is possible that may be the case and serves as a great example.

Due to all of this, then all of these promises made by this new campaign mean nothing. Also, wouldn't this be considered unfair by people, who originally paid the original higher prices for these " high end " morphs?

Scott Ashton, your post was great.

This just simply does not add up to me.

1) You have an individual who is making some rather key errors (asking a potential new hire their age???) that anyone who has an ounce of business sense would know not to ask.

2) You have an individual who just broke his own arm by patting himself on his back regarding cutting rates for the less fortunate. Again, a very amateur mistake.

3) You have an individual who is talking about opening up a franchise in 48 states.

4) You have an individual who is offering a "too good to be true" job offer.

5) You have an individual who is "keeping the job offer open until May 2007". You would think that if they truly needed this position filled that someone would jump on the chance to take it so why hasn't anyone done this yet?

6) Your website seems to be entirely devoted to instilling a sense of confidence in a potential buyer. I have never seen a seller that was attempting to put into people's minds that you often times spend 3 hours on the phone with your customers. Everything mentioned, at least on the front page, is very atypical of a true business who did not have ulterior motives.

7) On your feedback page, you leave out any identifying marks from your buyers but make sure to leave identifying marks from those whom simply were not buyers but simply commenting on your site.

When all is said and done, this appears to be a feeble attempt at making one's business sound a lot larger than what it really is. Obviously done in an attempt to garner more sales, ala TSE, by appearing to be something in which they are not.

David, if am I wrong I will be the first one to apologize but my gut instinct tells me that this whole setup stinks to high heaven. It simply does not add up.

Griz

David just hit me with negative Karma for supposedly trying to make him look bad. I did not realize that I had done this as I thought I saw him with the shovel, not me.

David, since you have obviously read EVERYONE'S posts regarding how you do not add up, why don't you take the time to address the questions posed. If your legit then it will surely add up. If you're not, well.......

Griz