Inbreeding

This has been asked before and I think it's relevant to ask again, but this time I hope it's answered.
Explain your husbandry? Since you've not experienced any problems, please describe your husbandry to us so that it can be known if what they are doing is wrong or not.

You see, I have a female that started laying infertiles at the age of 9 mos. She has layed 3 in all. She doesn't do it in the normal time frame, in fact, it took 2 solid months for her to lay from the first clutch to the second.
She's been tested by the EM method and it came back negative but we all know that means nothing.
I have a feeling she's positive.
I have posted her enclosure all over the forums as I'm very proud of what my husband has created. I spend lots of money, time and effort on my vivs. All dragons are on slate that is sterilized every two weeks with a steamer. I use Mega Ray MVB. Temps are 105 basking, 90ish ambient and 80 to 85 cool side. I buy their feeders from a breeder and their greens and veggies are clean. They are bathed every other day. They get pure sunshine at least 3 days a week. Each dragon has all of their own equipment, that is never used by the other dragons. I hold them in their own little blankets so that they are not up against my clothing, just in case one is positive. If I've left something out, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, PLEASE tell me. But I believe my girl is starting to show symptoms and testing in the very new future will show this either way.
In the mean time, could you please list for us what correct husbandry is. And maybe we can put this issue to rest, once and for all.

Jaime, you have to remember that there are several breeders/people who are adamant that it was our husbandry that caused the adeno to kill off babies. So, when you made that comment, I certainly considered that it could be directed at Tere and myself. I also hoped that you meant something else by it. I am glad that is the case. Sometimes it is hard to decipher what is truly meant by the written word. Facial expression and intonation add a lot to language. Of course, we always have our little smiley faces to help us out!

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

This has been asked before and I think it's relevant to ask again, but this time I hope it's answered.
Explain your husbandry? Since you've not experienced any problems, please describe your husbandry to us so that it can be known if what they are doing is wrong or not.

You see, I have a female that started laying infertiles at the age of 9 mos. She has layed 3 in all. She doesn't do it in the normal time frame, in fact, it took 2 solid months for her to lay from the first clutch to the second.
She's been tested by the EM method and it came back negative but we all know that means nothing.
I have a feeling she's positive.
I have posted her enclosure all over the forums as I'm very proud of what my husband has created. I spend lots of money, time and effort on my vivs. All dragons are on slate that is sterilized every two weeks with a steamer. I use Mega Ray MVB. Temps are 105 basking, 90ish ambient and 80 to 85 cool side. I buy their feeders from a breeder and their greens and veggies are clean. They are bathed every other day. They get pure sunshine at least 3 days a week. Each dragon has all of their own equipment, that is never used by the other dragons. I hold them in their own little blankets so that they are not up against my clothing, just in case one is positive. If I've left something out, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, PLEASE tell me. But I believe my girl is starting to show symptoms and testing in the very new future will show this either way.
In the mean time, could you please list for us what correct husbandry is. And maybe we can put this issue to rest, once and for all.

I have no idea what is considered "correct" husbandry. I think we all do things differently. I know what I do works for the time being. Maybe my dragons are all positive, and what I am doing works particularly well for them so that they have shown no symptoms. Or maybe they are all negative, so I could do pretty much anything within reason and they would still be healthy.
Or maybe adeno is not the big issue that it is being made out to be and husbandry does not affect the expression of the virus to much degree. I don't know. If you truly would like to know my husbandry practices, I am happy to share.

Jamie

Valley Dragons wrote:

I mean...who's to say that it was not problems from the husbandry? I think it is a viciuous circle of reasoning.

Ok, I can give you that....so instead of just wondering, lets brainstorm this and see if we're all doing it right or wrong.
Please, let's discuss husbandry practices.

If you truly would like to know my husbandry practices, I am happy to share

Ok!

Originally Posted by Neverland Dragons

Jaime, you have to remember that there are several breeders/people who are adamant that it was our husbandry that caused the adeno to kill off babies. So, when you made that comment, I certainly considered that it could be directed at Tere and myself. I also hoped that you meant something else by it. I am glad that is the case. Sometimes it is hard to decipher what is truly meant by the written word. Facial expression and intonation add a lot to language. Of course, we always have our little smiley faces to help us out!

I totally agree. I am sure that I have misinterpreted comments that were made in my direction. I am really not that awful of a person!

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

Ok!

Okay, lol, give me a minute to get it typed out. It's still early for me.

I totally agree. I am sure that I have misinterpreted comments that were made in my direction. I am really not that awful of a person!

This is a passionate debate made by people who are passionate about their animals. There's bound to be some hurt feelings from time to time but it doesn't mean it can't be worked out.
I'm sure you believe in what you are debating, just like the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Sorry...vicious - I slept all night and still can't spell, lol.

Seriously though - I was not thinking about you or denise when I wrote that. I was not trying to be offensive, well- maybe a little bit to puppytoes, lol. Sarcastic about the issue, yes - biting back just like everyone else here does when pushed far enough. I don't see how anything that I said was any worse that some of the things that have been said to me the last couple of days. If you don't want to talk to me anymore, that is your choice.

Jamie

I do understand what you're saying, and I'm glad that that's not what you meant. No, you've not been near as cruel as some, and that, coupled with the fact that I know how passionate you are, is the reason that I would prefer to keep talking with you, not to mention that by the end of last night, it almost felt like you and I had been to counseling or something...and had made so much progress. I'm not about to screw that up, but I felt it was important to ask.

Thank you for being strong enough to answer that direct confrontation without being ugly about it. I'm not so sure I could have done the same, and I'm not so sure I did.

Originally Posted by Denisebme

There are a couple of things that might explain it.
First, since you lost that male soon after breeding, it could be that your infection was very limited for a while.
Second, while you don't have any known problems for quite a time span, one of two things was happening. Either you were infected, but like a lot of people you were asymptomatic, or you brought in another source of infection. Either is possible, and its quite probable consider the number of beardies you were dealing with at the time that both actually happened.
The rest of it is just the course of the virus. If the numbers hold true, I think we can say with a degree of certainty that most dragons show no symptoms at all from this virus. Even in hatchlings where you have a high clutch mortality rate, you'll have some that are absolutely perfect outside of their exposure to AV and others that are sickly from the beginning.

This all makes so much sense to me now, and I've been thinking about it non-stop for several months now. Yes, I think you were right. I have a sneaking suspicion that the first infection was extremely limited for the reasons I've already told you about. Then, I think another source of infection was introduced after that. Knowing what I know now, the progression of the virus, the timelines, etc., it would appear I was infected not just once, but quite possibly twice by the same person, one indirectly, one very directly. How comforting is that to know?