The food police

Quite frankly, it is ridiculous that the government comes down hard on locally grown food, yet allows imported CRAP from China to come into this country as "food" (and I use that term VERY loosely) with the barest of fractions of the total amount being inspected. But yeah, it's that money thing again. China has us by the short hairs and the USA government doesn't dare piss them off.

Most americans are too cheap to pay for real food anyway. That is my beef, no pun intended, with the fast food giants and factory farms. There are a lot of gov't subsidies, tax write-offs, etc. that they take part in, so the cost to actually produce the food is not known, and people end up seeing the artificial cost of the product. A gentlemen at the local farmers market sells free range chicken patties for $2 a piece. Customers love them. The non-regulars say that is too expensive. His response, "spend a day on the farm with me". This is an article loosely related, and the costs a farmer incurs with labor.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20113604.shtml

Best quote:"If you want to get rid of illegal immigrants, quit eating," he said. "That's for everybody nationwide. If you want to get rid of them, quit eating. That will solve the problem."

Originally Posted by keithy

Best quote:"If you want to get rid of illegal immigrants, quit eating," he said. "That's for everybody nationwide. If you want to get rid of them, quit eating. That will solve the problem."

Hmm.. How many illegal aliens are estimated to be in this country? And how many people are out of work in this country and apparently unable to FIND ANY work? Do you think there may be a correlation?

Yeah, I know the argument will be that the illegal aliens take work that no one else wants, but quite frankly I believe that is BS. If you need to put food on your table for your family, you WILL take whatever work you can find. But if even the minimum wage jobs are not available because illegal aliens are taking them, what options do you have then? Well, none, apparently.

If people are knowingly hiring illegal aliens they are doing so for their own reasons. That would be because they can pay them less, under the table. Which means there are no income taxes being paid. No social security taxes being paid. No unemployment insurance taxes being paid. So for the benefit of those employers hiring illegal aliens, EVERYONE else suffers so they can get cheaper labor.

I agree with you to an extent. But, I get tired of going places and seeing these "hardworking" people, not actually hard working. I was asked to be a manager at a grocery store, a lumber yard, and a few other positions. One of my managers said it was because of my "immigrant work ethic". Just like people go to the store, they want to get the best bang for their buck. Businesses want to do the same thing. Some exploit the use of illegal immigrants. A ton of the larger agri-giants that are owned by some of our wonderful government officials are the ones doing this. Their excuse is to make more $$ for themselves, all while never setting foot on a farm. The smaller local family farms probably cannot afford to pay someone that is not going to work hard, complain about everything, and want all sorts of benefits. I know a lot of the farmers that I deal with provide a place to live along with a stipend, because they cannot afford to pay a huge salary. Not to mention, most of them will supply most meals and fresh produce. These farms are not using illegal immigrants to my knowledge. The quote you are referencing is regarding the current agri-giants. When you go to a chain grocery store, that is who you are supporting.

I wish everyone would go out and be a farmhand for a week. They would respect the work that is done, and maybe buy into the idea of paying more for food. Everyone wants raises in their jobs, small farmers seem to be getting the opposite.

I know this is an ooooold thread, but I can't help myself. Honestly, the thought of drinking unpasteurized milk scares the bejesus out of me (but for the record, I drink soy milk)! If you think brucellosis, tuberculosis, salmonellosis, campylobacteriosis, and any number of other pathogens weren't a problem prior to the advent of pasteurization you're wrong. Now we have to deal with E. coli O157:H7. All that being said, sure, people should be free to drink whatever type of milk they want. Just don't come crying to the government when your child dies from hemorrhagic uremic syndrome or salmonellosis (hey, we all own reptiles here and surely understand the dangers of Salmonella in young children, right??). Most of the opinions I've read on this thread have absolutely no basis on fact. In an ideal world, everyone would have some sort of medical training to better understand these issues. However, that's not feasible and we must do our best to listen to those that do have the years of training.

You know, I'm currently a vet student and have learned about all these pathogens and the diseases they cause in humans. You'll find people arguing that money is the source of our opinions. However, I assure you that everyone single doctor that has talked to us about the importance of food safety has been passionate about keeping everyone safe from food-borne diseases. They aren't being paid off by big ag, as is evidenced by their not-so-fancy vehicles. I can assure you that I am not being paid off for my opinion either, as evidenced by the $250,000 in student loans I will have to pay off.

So, drink all the raw milk you want, but don't come crying to the FDA when you get sick, and don't you DARE try to make the government (and therefore tax payers) pay for your medical bills.

I would feel safe in stating that anyone participating in this thread or anyone else of the opinion that the government has no business telling us what we can and cannot eat will ever come "crying to the FDA" as a result of their own decisions.
The point is the federal government has absolutely no power granted to it to dictate what we are or are not allowed to eat, nor do they have the constitutional power to arrest or prosecute anyone for offering for sale any food stuffs.
While I personally did not grow up on a farm, I am one of the first generation in my family that did not. My parents, my wife, and all my inlaws grew up drinking whole milk fresh from the cow on a daily basis. They ate cheese made from whole milk, and they ate eggs that were *gasp* collected from a chicken while they were still warm and cracked into a pan. Oddly enough neither they nor anyone they have ever known has gotten sick or died from it.
If anyone prefers to consume pasteurized milk and store bought eggs then that is their choice. If the government wants to issue stern warnings against the consumption of those foods then that is fine as well. People should be free to make the choice.
What is not acceptable is for the government to prohibit us from purchasing or consuming foods that are completely natural for whatever reason, it is just not within their constitutionally granted power.
The market should determine what is made available. If people do not want whole milk or fresh eggs, then they will not buy them and as a result the producers will not bring them to market.
If there is a market for such items though then the government has no right nor granted power to prevent that preference from being met.

I will NEVER, for any reason, or on any subject, complain that the government or any agency thereof should have protected me from anything whatsoever. I don't expect nor want the government to look out for me, I am an intelligent adult who is fully capable of taking care of myself. I have no need of the great nanny state to tell me what is and what is not safe.

Originally Posted by insignia100

I know this is an ooooold thread, but I can't help myself. Honestly, the thought of drinking unpasteurized milk scares the bejesus out of me (but for the record, I drink soy milk)! If you think brucellosis, tuberculosis, salmonellosis, campylobacteriosis, and any number of other pathogens weren't a problem prior to the advent of pasteurization you're wrong. Now we have to deal with E. coli O157:H7. All that being said, sure, people should be free to drink whatever type of milk they want. Just don't come crying to the government when your child dies from hemorrhagic uremic syndrome or salmonellosis (hey, we all own reptiles here and surely understand the dangers of Salmonella in young children, right??). Most of the opinions I've read on this thread have absolutely no basis on fact. In an ideal world, everyone would have some sort of medical training to better understand these issues. However, that's not feasible and we must do our best to listen to those that do have the years of training.

You know, I'm currently a vet student and have learned about all these pathogens and the diseases they cause in humans. You'll find people arguing that money is the source of our opinions. However, I assure you that everyone single doctor that has talked to us about the importance of food safety has been passionate about keeping everyone safe from food-borne diseases. They aren't being paid off by big ag, as is evidenced by their not-so-fancy vehicles. I can assure you that I am not being paid off for my opinion either, as evidenced by the $250,000 in student loans I will have to pay off.

So, drink all the raw milk you want, but don't come crying to the FDA when you get sick, and don't you DARE try to make the government (and therefore tax payers) pay for your medical bills.

Just for the record, I don't drink raw milk myself but many personal friends have drank it every day of their lives. Their children and grandchildren have never known anything but raw goats are cow milk. Nobody I personally know of has ever been hospitalized for drinking it. Nobody I know of has ever asked for government assistance because of their natural right to drink and eat what they prefer.

The bottom-line is and it has become one of my favorite sayings is 'freedom isn't pretty, neat or convenient for all. The lack of freedom is.

I live one of the most beautifulest, expensive and desirable communities in this country but it does come with a lot of restrictions within the nearby cities. Grocery bags are now outlawed in a close city. Retail stores are no longer allowed to give a plastic bag for someone purchasing product. No single use bags allowed. Smoking is banned everywhere that you encounter another person outside (sidewalks, parking lots, beach, walking down a street everywhere). You aren't allowed to park on grass on your own property, beautification of the city has outlawed keeping any nonoperational vehicle on your own property (registered or not). Rv's and motor homes aren't permitted above a certain length on your OWN property. The local authorities refuse to issue concealed weapons permits to those qualified. Open carry of a firearm (even unloaded) has been outlawed. Ordinances and setbacks to private property are being increased all the way up to peoples front doors.

Every faucet of life is regulated or licensed to death.

The fact is raw milk is legal in many states. The fact is a very small amount of people that drink it ever get sick. Small farmers who supply raw milk do not want to make their customers sick. Those who supply raw milk are easy to track back tainted product to. The fact is pasteurization allows for a lot crap that small raw milk farmers would never allow into their milk. The fact is it is not as clean. Of course their are exceptions to this. If a farmer is not taking caution, they should be individually held accountable by their customers.

Some people are happy with being over-regulated and controlled from cradle to grave. It is the same when it comes to keeping reptiles and what we face as a community now. The absurd laws around what you quoted above as well.

salmonellosis (hey, we all own reptiles here and surely understand the dangers of Salmonella in young children, right??).

No, I don't. Why don't you explain them to me? It is overblown and commonsense has been taken out of the equation. Heck, you still can't own a turtle or a tortoise in Tennessee because some idiots let kids put little turtles in their mouth 30 years ago. Your chances of getting salmonella from reptiles is inline with other causes that can. We haven't outlawed chicken and eggs have we? Well, not yet anyway. The chances of getting it from reptiles is the same or less than other causes so just use common sense.

So wrap yourself up in a little bubble and claim and believe that everything is done to protect you but don't demean, insult or try take take away from others who don't march to the beat of the majority rule.

"Come running to the government for help when you get sick?" Geez, What you think they do every time one of these over regulated FDA approved operations have a food poisoning scare? It happens all the time. People call for more regulations and it still happens. It is just a fact of life and it will continue happening regardless of regulations. People are fallible. I personally would like to hold my producer of products accountable and I can best do that at a local level.

Edit:
And by the way, why the heck not come running for medical help or anything else? My tax dollars are collect the same way. Your a student, right? You don't pay crap in taxes. I paid in many, many years. For many years I was paying large amounts of taxes so others can get "refunds". Don't tell anyone to not do anything. It's not for someone collecting from others to dictate where the funds go. I'm owed my social security when I get it, I'm owed my medicare when I get it. It' wasn't free. I paid for it my entire life. Heck, give me all my money back and I will not ask for anything. Pony up!

It gets me every time I see someone talking about waste then talking about the refund they are getting. Only two situations to get a refund. One your credits out way what you are required to pay and your among the 50 percent who pay absolutely nothing and actually get funds back from those paying.
Or you payed to much in and gave the government a free loan of your hard earned funds for a year and they owe you the money back. Personally, I don't feel like giving the government a interest free loan.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

[color="Navy"]No, I don't. Why don't you explain them to me? It is overblown and commonsense has been taken out of the equation. Heck, you still can't own a turtle or a tortoise in Tennessee because some idiots let kids put little turtles in their mouth 30 years ago. Your chances of getting salmonella from reptiles is inline with other causes that can. We haven't outlawed chicken and eggs have we? Well, not yet anyway. The chances of getting from reptiles is than others when using common sense.

Common sense, that's the kicker. I think we can both agree that common sense isn't very common. I for one am not going to trust some farmer's common sense when it comes to milk, just like I'm not going to trust a kid's common sense when it comes to reptiles.

True, your chances of becoming infected with Salmonella from a turtle may be the same as other sources, but that's for us adults. You don't see little kids playing with eggs or raw chicken very often, do you? But turtles, sure, that's perfectly fine, right? My point is that EXPOSURE to children is much higher with animals than it is eggs or meat.

Now, here is an interesting case from 1994:

North Carolina. During December 1994, a 2-day-old boy born 8 weeks prematurely developed respiratory difficulties, had pneumothorax diagnosed, and was transferred to a referral hospital. Blood obtained at birth for culture had been negative, but a culture of blood obtained 9 days later because of an elevated white blood cell count yielded Salmonella serotype Kintambo. He was treated with intravenous ampicillin for Salmonella sepsis and was discharged from the hospital after 30 days. Eleven days after the positive culture was collected, Salmonella Kintambo was cultured from a blood sample obtained from a 12-day-old acutely ill boy who was born at 28 weeks' gestation and had shared a room at the referral hospital with the first infant. The second infant was treated with intravenous cefotaxime for Salmonella sepsis and was discharged after 44 days. Both infants had been in the hospital continuously from birth until onset of illness. The mother of the first infant reported having had a diarrheal illness 4 days before the birth of the infant; she frequently handled a savanna monitor lizard (Varanus exanthemapicus) [sic] (V. exanthematicus is correct) that the family had purchased in September 1994 and kept in a cage in the kitchen. Culture of a stool sample from the lizard yielded Salmonella Kintambo. The second family did not own a reptile.

Now, tell me how you would feel if your newborn son contracted Salmonella and you didn't even own a reptile? Yet another infant in the same room came down with Salmonella that could be traced back to their parent's reptile? I'm not trusting ANYONE'S common sense...

Ohio. During January 1994, a 6-week-old boy was hospitalized because of diarrhea, stiff neck, and fever; culture of samples of blood and cerebrospinal fluid yielded Salmonella serotype Stanley. The infant was treated with intravenous cefotaxime for Salmonella sepsis and meningitis and discharged from the hospital after 56 days. He had been fed only formula and had not attended a child-care facility; household contacts were asymptomatic. The family had purchased a 4-inch water turtle in April 1993. A culture of stool from the turtle yielded Salmonella Stanley. Although the infant had not had contact with the turtle, other family members had had direct contact, and the turtle's food and water bowls were washed in the kitchen sink.

Again, a gross neglect of COMMON SENSE.

Another example. Just last year there was a Salmonella outbreak that was linked to baby chicks/ducks at an unnamed feed store chain. It affected 25 people, all because the stores weren't following regulations ranging from where the chicks were located to proper warnings about Salmonella to having appropriately labeled and accessible disinfectants on hand. And these parent's were letting their kids KISS these animals for cryin' out loud! Why do you think stores aren't allowed to sell you single chicks anymore? You have to buy 5 or more chicks because people were getting Salmonella after buying their children chicks for Easter.

I absolutely agree that all these could have been avoided if people used common sense. The problem, however, is that many regulations wouldn't be needed if people actually HAD this common sense.

The people that I know and sell raw milk would NEVER sell something contaminated. How can this be you might ask? Well, by following nature. I don't drink milk PERIOD. We are the only mammal that drinks another mammals milk, so I find it unnecessary to drink milk. But, the farms that I know selling the product (I look to in the near future) take care of their animals like their friend. When you suckled your mothers teat, was it pasteurized? No, it wasn't. You don't trust farmers? Well, I don't trust most people, whether they be doctors, lawyers, VETS, etc. A true farmer is going to have everyone's best interest in mind. When I sell my turnips, I want my customer to be happy. If they get sick, they are not happy. I know where all of my inputs come from, as opposed to other farmers. Yes, factory farmed milk is probably full of different harmful bacteria, virus, etc., but if the animal is allowed to live, rather than to just produce, they will produce a wholesome product.