is this a desparate business in need of funds?

A couple quick points:

1) Once again Ed you show you are an . How in the world do you know that John has not spoken to other "big" breeders? You took a very condescending tone with him just like you have so many others. I have been in this industry far to long and know too many of the larger breeders to not see through your crap. Funny though, how I never heard of your name prior to your original offensive email to me. Stop trying to make yourself appear to be "one of the big guys." You only making yourself out to be an .

2) Secondly, for the rest of you guys. You have to not only see opportunities when they appear in front of you but you have to seize them! What is going on with MKR etc is giving you some great opportunities! I am strictly a Boa guy but rest assured, if things play out the way some are expecting, I will be very rapidly obtaining BP's.

Again, I understand your frustrations but with every flip of the coin there are opportunities and right now I smell a big one. This could all end up being several guys getting their feathers ruffled and posing to intimidate the other guy. But, they are also creating an opportunity that you would be smart to capitalize on. Keep your eyes open and your wallets close.

Griz

bob,once again your crap is getting old.my responce to john was talking about the big breeders on the east coast,which i have spoken to about this.i have never eluded to the fact to being a big breeder.i am a small hobbiest breeder but I do produce quite a few high end snakes and have been doing this since the mid 80's ,bob it seems to me that you have a wild hair up your ass about a harsh e mail that i sent you.GET OVER IT

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

bob,once again your crap is getting old.my responce to john was talking about the big breeders on the east coast,which i have spoken to about this.i have never eluded to the fact to being a big breeder.i am a small hobbist breeder but do produce quite a bit of high end snakes and have been doing this since the mid 80's ,bob it seems to me that you have a wild hair up your ass about a harsh e mail that i sent you.GET OVER IT

Ed, the problem that I, as well as several others via the Karma they have issued, clearly see how transparent you are. You have done your best to distort reality by phrasing your replies in such a way as to try and cast doubt on others AND to somehow lump yourself in with other "big breeders." All of which is again, very transparent.

I will not "GET OVER IT" when you continue to behave in such a way that is damaging to other hobbiest. I will not walk way simply to let you off the hook. You've done a fine job of showing who you are in this very thread and I encourage you to continue your replies. It's very enlightening to say the least.

Griz

PS Learn how to use the flipping spell check. Your writing is atrocious...

Originally Posted by SPJ

Their tactic was not a blip. This was calculated. There is a battle brewing between Ralph Davis, Bob Clark, and Mike Wilbanks. MKR made the first move to disrupt the market. Now RDR has said he will make what MKR did look nothing. What is he planning on doing?
The larger breeders will weather this fine. It's the smaller ones who are going to be devastated.
This is manipulation of the market by large scale breeders with no regards whatsoever for their past customers, small breeders, or anyone else for that matter.
It all comes down to the dollar. They are going to try and hurt each other in the wallet and who cares if they devastate the "little guys" in the process.
Stop attacking the people who have a different view then yourself.
You really think they care that the animal they sold you 6 months ago is now worth 90% less on the market because they are playing games?
People save and save to buy an animal and when they finally get it, it's no longer worth what they paid.

THAT is what this whole thread is (or should be) about. Steve has summed it up perfectly.

bob,once again you attack me for no apparent reason and try to make this thread about you.bill hicok told you in post #85 that this thread was not about you,and you still persist.i asked a question of john keller,why would you take it upon yourself to answer for him?
you say that you only have heard about me for a couple of months,boy i really have come a long way in a couple of months.
from what i see your only claim to fame has been 1 litter of boas that you had trouble almost giving them away.
now i read that you are giving all the ball python breeders investment advice.Bob,Bob,Bob

While opinions may differ, the outcome of MKRs mojave "dump" should be apparent very soon. (maybe I'll buy a pinstripe!)
Perhaps if Griz had a minimum wage job, and scraped to save for his sunglow project he would understand what people are upset about. Must be nice to breed $5000 snakes as a hobby.
On a similar note, Someone from Canada was offering a "presale" of albino granite burms 2 yrs ago on KS for $500 ea. 1/2 of the going rate of $1000 ea. (He set the price in 2004). I sent him a $250 deposit for a pr. HE NEVER PRODUCED ANY! but he sent me my money back, and informed me he sold his adults. Now he is "into" balls. I hope MKR does not work with "het red axanthics"......

Casey,the ball python market is very tought right now,but it is going to offer some opportunities to purchase some snakes that we only dreamed about 2 years ago.let the big guys fight it out.us little breeders will benefit from their greed.

little breeders will benefit from their greed.

Ed, This should probably be sent private mess. but if the "big guys fight" there will be a downward trend....The market is very similar to a pyramid after all. once the "masses" become uninterested in "ball morphs" There will be little movement. The big breeders are needed to add excitement and vigor to the market.IMHO (and it is only an opinion). All the poss. combinations are what motivate me to buy homozygous animals.
I will note that I have had little interest in my het albino balls, poss due to TSE. but maybe not.


Signature... Apples>oranges Get it?

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

bob,once again you attack me for no apparent reason and try to make this thread about you.bill hicok told you in post #85 that this thread was not about you,and you still persist.

Ed, this thread IS about me. It's about every person out there trying to make money off of this hobby. It's about all of the people out there who you have emailed rude comments to regarding prices. YOU, Ed, made this about me. YOU, Ed, made this about everyone. You're not getting off that easy.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

i asked a question of john keller,why would you take it upon yourself to answer for him?

John does not need me to answer for him, he did just fine putting you in your place. However, you once again had the audacity to speak about that which you nothing of, so I too, had to call you out on it. Funny how you changed your story from John not talking to any "big breeders" to John not talking to any "big east coast breeders." Get called out = change your story.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

you say that you only have heard about me for a couple of months,boy i really have come a long way in a couple of months.

Don't flatter yourself Ed as you are so prone to do. Anytime someone sends me emails like what you did, I tend to keep a watchful eye out on that person.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

from what i see your only claim to fame has been 1 litter of boas that you had trouble almost giving them away.

Once again Ed, everyone here see's how you are prone to manipulate the truth. Tell me Ed, what is your claim to fame since you want to throw that out there? Keep in mind Ed, that pretty soon I would reckon you might have a hard time giving your animals away if you keep sending out emails like you did me and probably many others. Word gets out very quickly. I am making sure of that.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

now i read that you are giving all the ball python breeders investment advice.Bob,Bob,Bob

Ed, if I had not already given out too much Karma I would have given you some positive one's for that. You truly did make me laugh out loud. Why? Let's take a quick look at a previous quote of mine......

Originally Posted by Griz

2) Secondly, for the rest of you guys. You have to not only see opportunities when they appear in front of you but you have to seize them! What is going on with MKR etc is giving you some great opportunities! I am strictly a Boa guy but rest assured, if things play out the way some are expecting, I will be very rapidly obtaining BP's.

Again, I understand your frustrations but with every flip of the coin there are opportunities and right now I smell a big one. This could all end up being several guys getting their feathers ruffled and posing to intimidate the other guy. But, they are also creating an opportunity that you would be smart to capitalize on. Keep your eyes open and your wallets close.

Now, let's look at your one of your very last posts here and see what it says......

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Casey,the ball python market is very tought right now,but it is going to offer some opportunities to purchase some snakes that we only dreamed about 2 years ago.let the big guys fight it out.us little breeders will benefit from their greed.

Sounds like to me that you like to take credit for other people's idea's only to call the originator of those idea's a fool for doing so. Way to go Ed, logic really does escape you, doesn't it?

Griz

Originally Posted by Casey Hulse

While opinions may differ, the outcome of MKRs mojave "dump" should be apparent very soon. (maybe I'll buy a pinstripe!)
Perhaps if Griz had a minimum wage job, and scraped to save for his sunglow project he would understand what people are upset about. Must be nice to breed $5000 snakes as a hobby.

Casey, don't go fooling yourself into believing that you have to work harder for your money then I do. We might have different economies of scale here but I work just as hard for my money as anyone else does. I might have the luxury of working with $5000+ animals but keep in mind that when dealing with those prices that when the market fluctuates, I get hit a lot harder then those dealing with less expensive animals. That's the nice thing about dealing with less expensive animals. Their prices remain much more steady and thereby your investment is better protected.

However, I would have to argue that if someone is only earning minimum wage that they really need to think twice before getting into this hobby as a way to make money. There are MUCH more lucrative ways to spend your money such as 401K, 3b, Roth etc. I don't have any issue with minimum wage earners keeping reptiles as a hobby but when they decide to do it as an investment then they are really jeopardizing their earning potential.

Griz