is this a desparate business in need of funds?

You know what really amazes me, the thing that has me, ME of all people, shaking his head?

The simple fact that ANY of you, in general you not anyone in particular at this moment, think you have ANY say in what any other breeder does with his stock.

It seems that a bunch of folks are trying to keep prices high on ball morphs. Cool. You're breeding them and you want to get the maximum profit you can for as long as you can. I would even go so far as to say collusion is involved with "the brotherhood" and keeping those prices up. Again, cool, if that's what you want to do and you can, if you're ok with it, more power to you.

However, no one has ANY right to say someone else is wrong or is DOING BUSINESS INCORRECTLY because he chooses to lowball the market.

It's friggin business. Drive your competitors out, make them hurt, make them mad, make them follow you, make them talk about you and, here's the key, as long as you have good stock, YOU WILL SELL THEM.

Has ANYONE got a complaint about MKR's snakes? I have yet to hear of a single complaint.

This is, unless there was a major change while I slept, America. I'm pretty sure that means something, something pretty important, like so long as you break no laws, make as much money as you want.

Have any laws been broken? I think not. Have some feeling been hurt? Yup, but even more importantly, some pocket books have been hurt and THAT'S the bottom line.

Well guess what guys, shit happens and that's the price you pay when you take chances on a fluctuating non-standardized price-fixed market. I know the non-price fixing is sort of new, or certainly seems to be, and therefore painful but, anyone that did not see this coming and does not see its re-occurance as a surety, needs to pull their head out of what ever warm dark place they've had it and take a look around.

I'm wondering what he'll cut loose with before the Anaheim show.

I'd pay 800.00 for a pied.

Wes, I can't add anymore other than a profound.......AMEN!

Griz

Bob,it never ceases to amaze me that you are attacking everyone that is contributing to this thread in a positive manner,that has an opposing view of yours.there are people with different views and opionions.have a little respect here.you are painting your self in a very bad light by coming here trying to bully and push others around.please show a little maturity and intelligence.it is nice to know that you are keeping a watchful eye on me.i think they call that stalking.
as far as me taking credit for your original ideas,you are really full of yourself.anyone in there right mind could predict that with these big guys fighting with one another,and have threatend that they will ruin one anothers ball python projects by selling cheap.That will bring down some of the high prices,the only reason for that is greed and jealously nothing more. I cant believe that you said low income people should not buy ball python morphs. WOW !

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Bob,it never ceases to amaze me that you are attacking everyone that is contributing to this thread in a positive manner,that has an opposing view of yours.there are people with different views and opionions.have a little respect here.you are painting your self in a very bad light by coming here trying to bully and push others around.please show a little maturity and intelligence.it is nice to know that you are keeping a watchful eye on me.i think they call that stalking.
as far as me taking credit for your original ideas,you are really full of yourself.anyone in there right mind could predict that with these big guys fighting with one another,and have threatend that they will ruin one anothers ball python projects by selling cheap.That will bring down some of the high prices,the only reason for that is greed and jealously nothing more. I cant believe that you said low income people should not buy ball python morphs. WOW !

Ed, I have been trying to figure out your thought process. Either you truly do have a strong aversion to the truth or your reading comprehension is that of elementary school. I don't mean for that comment to be insulting rather it's an observation.

Case in point, you mentioned above that I have attacked everyone in this thread with a differing view. If you do not have an aversion to the truth AND you actually don't have a reading comprehension issue, then please show me the post where I stated ANYTHING derogatory about anyone other than you. If you are referring to my post in response to Casey then please, by all means, point it out. I have a great deal of respect for Casey. He's definitely one of the good guys in this industry and I respect the hard work he's put into this.

The fact remains Ed, is that you have lied several times in this thread alone and I would highly encourage you to either 1) stop or 2) prove me wrong. They say that ignorance is blinding. That you cannot see what reality truly is. If, in fact you truly saw the opportunity that the "big breeder fight" potentially could be creating, then why did you come here whining about it? Why not sit back and capitalize on the situation so that you could further bolster your position and go from "thinking you are a big breeder" to actually being one? You didn't, hence the reason for utilizing, some would call it plagiarizing, my thoughts. How transparent.

One last point Ed, with regards to your last comment about me somewhere (please point out where) stating that low income earners should not have BP's. I never stated that. In fact, I clearly stated that if they wanted them for pets then have at it. But, what I CLEARLY (at least to the majority of those with reading comprehension) stated was that low income earners should NOT be involved in BP's as an investment. The market is, as Wes put it, a "fluctuating non-standardized price-fixed market", and therefore requires a greater deal of risk in order to be successful. For a low income earner to put his financial future in the hands of such a market is horrible advice for anyone to give. Doubt me, Ed? Call any reputable financial adviser and ask him. "Gee, Mr Schwab, if you could put your money into a 403B or the BP market, which one would you choose."

In fact, I would NEVER, let me repeat that, NEVER have invested the money that I did into this hobby had my other finances not been in order. It's nothing short of foolish and poor financial management. I know we all love the thought of being in first position when that new morph hits, but reality tells you that your better off choosing your daily picks.

Griz

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Bob,it never ceases to amaze me that you are attacking everyone that is contributing to this thread in a positive manner,that has an opposing view of yours.there are people with different views and opionions.have a little respect here.you are painting your self in a very bad light by coming here trying to bully and push others around.please show a little maturity and intelligence !

Whoooooops, at first I thought another poster was addressing Ed. The broken space bar gave it away , gotta give you credit for fixing that caps lock button though easier to read. Anyway, pot, kettle, black (or stainless, copper, whatever).
Seriously, I'm not trying to "attack" anyone (nor do I think Bob is), simply because we have differing opinions on how people should run their own business. Maybe not "should", but how they run their own business even if it's in spite of themselves. Steve, Casey, and others are stating their opinions without being obnoxious and big bullies, you can't seem to though, which is why you need to read your own ironic post some more, and maybe you will see that you were talking to yourself when you wrote it.

I would like to discuss the real reason of this thread. The $800.00 pricing on the mojave balls was the reason to start this thread. Not a real big deal in the fact that they were priced way low. Its why they did that. I had been hearing about this feud that has been brewing for awhile between the biggest of the breeders, About 6 of them. They all have plans of putting one another out of business. It is my belief that the low priced mojaves were aimed at one particular person as to hurt his business. Everyone was passionate about this subject, some were for the low prices and some were against them. I think that we all agree that in America we have the freedom to sell our stuff at whatever prices that we want to. The real issue was not the low prices and alot of you seen that. And the details unfolded as this thread raged on. We all now know a little more about the greed and jealousy that these big breeders harbor for one another, And what they will do to get at one another. I think that it is very clear that us little guys are just pawns in a larger game. Please continue to add any additional Information that you would like to, It surely will benefit us all.

Ed, all differences aside, let me interject a few points:

Who will end up receiving the worst of this situation? God only knows as it has yet to play out. However, as Wes alluded too in addition to myself, people have to start living in the reality that this is a very competitive business. While I might develop a friendship with Breeder A and him me, the fact of the matter remains that when he makes a sale to John Doe that he is affecting, negatively that is, my business.

Do you, or anyone for that matter, truly believe that the executives at Ford share trade secrets with GM? The name of this game is to drive your competition out. To do whatever it takes to ensure your success and the demise of your competition. While you and I may never resort to such, it's simply due to the fact that we are but small players in this game. While you and I may be 6 figures invested into this game, it still pales in comparison to the big guys. If I had wrapped up what they do, then you had better believe I would do my best to drive out any "real" competitors from the marketplace. It's called survival of the fittest and it's how it's played.

In my consulting business, I do everything in my power to highlight my competitors weaknesses while showcasing my strengths. The sole reason is to take their clientele and add them to mine. While I do not have to resort to those tactics right now in this hobby of mine, you had better believe I would if I had more invested. Competition is a good thing but only to a certain extent.

While it would be nice if everyone could sit around and shoot the crap, just like you and I probably do at shows etc, that is simply not reality when you go big time. You remain nice to your clients but you do your best to drive the final nails in your opponents coffins every chance you get. It's how it has to be. After all, if my competitors are ticked off at me then it only shows me that I am doing something right.

Griz

Bob, Point taken. I do see your point of view, even thought we don't agree on everything. I see things a little differently now.

John, Thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

cathy,thanks for being one of the few that understood the meaning of that post about the threats.i recieved hate mail about it and i also lost someone special over it.just wanted to say that i was not making any threats against mkr and if it appeared that i did,im sorry.

secret newsletter has been sent.

cant figure out how to fit you into the brotherhood though.

Clarifying... I didn't think you made the threats personally, either. It was clear that you were relaying only what you were privy to or heard in one form or another.

No harm, no foul; damn that messenger position, eh? Intentional or not, it catches us in its grips, many times.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

First of all.....I have these animals because I LIKE them. It has NOTHING to do with me being greedy, TYVM.

You have them because you like them; that's great, I do too. But you breed them because you want to make money at it, even if it is just the icing on the cake. I wasn't directly referring to you as greedy, more to the mentality that "I need to make (insert exorbitant number here)x my investment..." which refers to those selling at the inflated prices for so long; namely, the big breeders who have been at it for years.

And I'm not sure what the sentence, "Decent means profit in a business" actually means....?

Quoted from your post previously:

Then there's those like myself, who scrimped and saved to buy a snake that they truly found as awesome, and really hoped to be able to get a decent return from the investment, besides having that animal to enjoy for themselves. MKR crapped on them as well.

Easy, it was a reply to your use of the word 'decent'.. you commented on hoping to get a decent return from the investment. A 'decent' return from the investment means any profit in the first years of a business. If you actually meant more than decent, or over a longer period of time, well either of those is a completely different reference. There was no hidden meaning in it.

And you still didn't answer my question, you siad that you never referred anyone to MKR in the past, but you will now. Why? They have done nothing different than they have in the past, besides crashing the Mohave market. What have they done to EARN that referral from you?

They've been treated and reacted to with jealousy; business is business, and healthy pricing wars are fine, but to resort to vengefulness is too far. My choice to endorce them over others is just that, a choice. They have quality snakes and cater to both those who can and those who can't afford the higher priced snakes of equal quality. You will probably ask 'but why now?' See previous statement: "They've been treated and reacted to with jealousy; business is business, and healthy pricing wars are fine, but to resort to vengefulness is too far."

You voiced a choice to go elsewhere for your business, and I have the right to voice my choice, too; it's not a big deal. I'm not questioning your opinion and don't really know why you chose to question mine so directly while picking apart so many of my words. You defended your right to be upset (along with others that bought at a higher price), but I never said you didn't have that right. It's all about perspective; we're adults here, aren't we?

I'm also curious...which "big breeders" that you used to refer people to actually made threats?

I didn't make the comment about others threatening them, Ed Clark did; and his mention of it here is/was not the only mention of it.

And where do you get the idea that MKR breeds on a "small scale"???? Do you have any idea how many animals they have/produce?

Re-read the sentence...

MKR and others like them breeding on a smaller scale

... others like them (that are) breeding on a smaller scale
I didn't say MKR was small; I used them as a scale clarifier and then mentioned other breeders with a clear definition of scale.. smaller.