is this a desparate business in need of funds?

Originally Posted by SoulSmilen

but I never said you didn't have that right. It's all about perspective; we're adults here, aren't we?

Denise, while you and I are in agreement, I don't believe the above quote is quite accurate. It really boils down to some people being "business minded" while others are not. Those that are offended by (and not necessarily just MKR but any breeders pricing) simply are not business minded. They are emotional minded and have not taken the time to write out a true business plan with short and long-term goals. Those that did take the time will easily ride this hiccup out.

When I decided to get back into this I could see that the BP world was going through some turmoil and that a price correction would have to happen soon. I chose to go the boa route exclusively. Now that BP's have slowed down it's time to capitalize. Plain and simple. If your daily activities/sales are based upon that specific days market then you are surely going to be in a world of hurt at the drop of a pin.

Griz

I read most of this and I get the gist of most complaints on all sides here. My few thoughts are based on what I saw at the Daytona show.

Prices were relatively high, not saying that is a bad thing, but at shows, vendors do drop the prices to sell what they have at their table. Some people completely sold out with current market prices, not show prices. For example, Kenyan sand boas were selling for $45+, anery sand boas were $55+, maybe they were less, but at the tables I saw those were the going prices for both days of the show. Last year I saw these snakes each for $10 less, maybe prices are higher in Florida compared to California

Ball pythons held their prices well, I know some people have second day price drops and end of show deals, I even got a dropped price late Sunday as I returned to buy a uromastyx. I did not, however, see the market crushed by what MKR did, I heard there was a change in the amount of Hets sold (compared to times prior) due to what TSE did the the het market, it is unfortunate that Chris caused some problems.

All in all, there is not a lot of damage done at this point, some hurt egos, and others wanting to hit back either physically or commercially and try to drop the market themselves. Until others follow suit, everyone at this point is still in good standings with prices as they were a month ago.

The ball python market is tricky enough as it is, many people have gone out and purchased 10 plus $50 normal females to breed with their $2,500 Pastel male. It was just last February of 2005 that pastel males were sold for $1,700 and that was a drop in price. Now look at the price $300! If I were to have purchased then I would be a bit peeved that the price is so low now, but it will always be that way. As long as people continue to buy and purchase animals for breeding, prices will drop.

MKR did what they did for money, no doubt about it, if RDR does just to get back at MKR, I would not be surprised. To them it is all about the money, to me, it is all about the fun of having them. This is one reason why I am not too into breeding ball pythons. Sure I like them. To those who have small investments and a job to support them and their family should not worry, it is those that rely on this market that can be hurt here. The small time breeders have a chance for something nice and they will take it. To them it is a hobby. When the price falls and small time breeders sell for the same, MKR and RDR will only be able to point fingers at each other because of their doing.

I would rather do business with my friends anyway, those that worked hard to be able to afford these animals and breed them. Not these pompous arrogant people who think they are stars because they were able to drop $100,000 given to them through an inheritance to get the first morph here.

Originally Posted by MikeAnthony

I wonder why ppl dont mind their own business. IF joe smoe wants to sell his snakes for X amt of $$$ and it happens to be way below "market value" and you don't agree with it, why gripe about it?

These are his snakes. His snakes to sell for whatever he wants to sell them for. If you can easily get $1200 out of the snakes then buy them at $800 and resell them tomorrow for $1200. If theyre flying out of breeders homes for $1200 then a $400 profit per snake in a few days time would be worth the effort.

Excellent point!
Instead of griping about the inevitable, be an opportunist and take advantage of an opportunity.

Im 17, WOrk My Butt off for morphs and then in 6 months the market value collapases!

Fair huh?


And Just so a Breeder could relive himself of unessacary stock...


NIce one...

Originally Posted by Griz

Denise, while you and I are in agreement, I don't believe the above quote is quite accurate. It really boils down to some people being "business minded" while others are not. Those that are offended by (and not necessarily just MKR but any breeders pricing) simply are not business minded. They are emotional minded and have not taken the time to write out a true business plan with short and long-term goals. Those that did take the time will easily ride this hiccup out.

When I decided to get back into this I could see that the BP world was going through some turmoil and that a price correction would have to happen soon. I chose to go the boa route exclusively. Now that BP's have slowed down it's time to capitalize. Plain and simple. If your daily activities/sales are based upon that specific days market then you are surely going to be in a world of hurt at the drop of a pin.

Griz

Griz, I will never understand your way of thinking. Perhaps you are more "business minded" than I, but not eveything comes down to money. Yes, I have both short and long term goals, and no, this is not going to "break me" and I will indeed ride this so-called hiccup out.

However...why is it that you keep stating that it all comes down to some of us "whining" about the prices? Sure, that didn't make me happy, but I am far more upset with the ethics and morals (or lack thereof) involved than the simple dollar signs. Perhpas ethics and morals are of no concern in your business minded world, but they are very important to me, and I will not do business with someone like MKR. Will the lack of businees from me break them? Of course not. If it makes me a poor businessperson to care about the "human factor" and not just the money, then so be it.

It all boils down to the fact that MKR purposely tried to hurt another breeder by dropping the prices so signifigantly.

Will others benefit by the price drop? Sure. But a lot who bought at much higher prices are upset about what was done. It just destroyed the value of the animal that someone may have had to save an entire year to afford.

Dumping 50 mojaves on the market in one week means there is mass production going on and MKR is only motivated by the money.

With MKR, more and more things are surfacing about them everyday.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a lesser from them for $50 just because of who they associate with.

There is more involved than price.
You could have the best animals at the lowest prices but if you associate with some of the lowest people who ever appeared in the herp market, you will not get one penny from me.

Amen, Steve.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

If it makes me a poor businessperson to care about the "human factor" and not just the money, then so be it.

Clearly Griz you must know nothing about buissness. Becuase the human Factor is what has made millionares who they are today and continues to make them.

WHy We WHine?

BEcuase we work hard to for every dollar sweat.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Amen, Steve.

I second that...

Cat, not that this needs said but just in case, I like you. I always have and my comments are NOT intended to be derragotory towards you. I hope you understand that.

With that said, let me try to explain myself a bit more clearer. Here goes:

1) I understand that you and I have different ideals and thought processes. This is NOT an ethics question. Pricing animals is economic based, not ethics based.

2) This business is about one thing and that's money. If I could not make money at this then I would not be doing it, at least not to the scale that I am now. I truly, and I mean TRULY, enjoy having my boa's but I would have one not 50+ if I was not in it for the money.

3) MKR and anyone else selling animals are my competition and vice versa. I will do whatever it takes, within ethical limits, to make sure that it's my animals that are sold vs theirs. Definition of "ethical limits" is not spreading lies, not selling normals as hets etc. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PRICING.

4) My comments are not solely based upon MKR. That's an important issue to take notice of. I said it earlier and will say it now, if their intentions were solely to hurt another individual then that is wrong. But, I truly do not believe that is the root issue here. The root issue that you and a few others take issue with is the way in which they ended up pricing their animals. THAT is what I take issue with. This is not, nor will it ever be, a lovey dovey hobby. It's a business and your main goal is to outdo your competition. Period.

5) These are snakes. Plain and simple, they are snakes. These are not publically traded commodities. These are sold in the private sector and therefore have values that will change with the wind. The ONLY monetary value that these animals have is based upon personal appearance. They do not have any other value then this. They have absolutely no use, no value other than the "I want one" factor. We have to keep that in mind.

6) I have close to 25 head of registered angus. These are publically traded, they have value as breeders (as do snakes), but they also have value in the marketplace. Due to their many facets, my animals rarely experience market fluctuations. The same CANNOT be said for reptiles. They are EXTREMELY volatile and always will be. Therefore, you have no choice but to plan accordingly for this. It means you have to suck up the price flucuations and ride the market out. It means you will experience a certain loss in market value, especially since you are dealing with co-doms etc, and will simply have to produce quantity to offset your perceived losses.

It does gripe me to no end to hear people whine about spending $2000 on a SNAKE and a few months later it being worth half of that. It's like complaining that a Big Mac will make you fat. You knew it going into the situation but now you complain about it? If you want to complain about scammers, about certain associations, about selling hets when they clearly are not, then more power to you and I support you 100%. But, to complain about the manner in which people price their animals is going to fall on deaf ears.

You knew it going into this hobby (or at least you should have) and therefore you have no grounds in which to complain. Now, back to my Big Mac......

Griz