Does the Ball Python industry have a future?

Originally Posted by CombatWombat

It also makes you wonder about kill genes to other kill genes. Like SpiderXWoma. I noticed on World of Ball pythons that it hasn't been created. Is this because of a fear of it being an ultimate kill or has it been produced with no results.

I'm pretty sure that most if not all are also lethal. Super champagnes are lethal, as are spider champagnes (and super spiders obviously). I think this carries over to most of the lethal supers. I can't think of one off the top of my head that's NOT lethal, but that's not to say there isn't.

Originally Posted by CombatWombat

But I was reading up above. NERD did their work with the pearl after failing with the regular woma ball and going to hidden gene woma. Both of them are both visually similar. It's a kill gene in waiting if you don't know genetics of the animal you're breeding out.

I don't know all the details surrounding the introduction and background of woma and hidden gene woma, I just recall they introduced both.

What NERD mentions about the normal looking offspring of HGW carrying the pearl gene that can show up when bred to a HGW is the type of thing that concerns me most.
When I got my balls, I tried to get as much background info as I could but there is only so much that people keep track of.
I plan to breed my HGW with lesser/butter type genes but if there is some invisible "hidden gene" that can be in normal offspring and only shows up as death, then theoretically starting any breeding program is a risk.
It could be in any ball python but always in HGW. without genetic testing, it is hard to say. Could be the reason some snakes from a gene common pairing (say fire x pastel) just up and die or fail to thrive; they may have just happened to have that gene in the background.

My parents used to breed budgerigars for show and the crested (fallow) is a lethal gene:
Het crested x het crested= 25% crested;
crested x crested + lethal;
and I vaguely remember, but I think crested x het crested was also lethal.
every once in a while, a feather duster would show up too; a bird whose feathers would continue to grow like hair; there was no way to predict those. They would always die because they eventually could not eat (they would be culled early on).
genes can do strange things sometimes.

The best I can do as a responsible breeder is to keep a lineage history for what I produce.

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

Could be the reason some snakes from a gene common pairing (say fire x pastel) just up and die or fail to thrive; they may have just happened to have that gene in the background.

I'll be honest, when I read this earlier today my exact thoughts "that's dumb, I don't think that's how it works," but reading it again now I realize I was being dumb.

For some reason the idea of dwarfism in humans came to mind; in the heterozygous form it is a visible "morph," or what we refer to as midgets. But in the homozygous "super" form it's lethal. But there are tons of other genes that humans carry that don't cause any visual changes or ill effects on their own but end up causing still births, miscarriages, or babies that don't make it past a year.

They highly recommend getting genetic testing done if you plan on having kids because even though it's statistically very rare, there's still a chance you could both be carriers of a gene that is lethal in it's homozygous form. I don't see why it would be any different for snakes, it's not like they're immune to disease. You actually make a very good point.

Actually, what Nick said brought up something I've been thinking about for a while.

In just the past few years, complete genomic sequencing has dropped from $10 million dollars to around $1000 - $2000 now. They're trying to get genomic sequencing below $100 in the next few years. It'd be very feasible to sequence the ball python DNA and the DNA of morphs too. Looking at microsatellites and SNPs in the DNA would let us compare morphs and see, for example, if coral glows and bananas are the genetically same or if "lethal genes" in different morphs stem from the same cluster of genes.

The possibilities are really exciting! It would do wonders in helping us to understand ball python genetics.

Originally Posted by MCMB

Actually, what Nick said brought up something I've been thinking about for a while.

In just the past few years, complete genomic sequencing has dropped from $10 million dollars to around $1000 - $2000 now. They're trying to get genomic sequencing below $100 in the next few years. It'd be very feasible to sequence the ball python DNA and the DNA of morphs too. Looking at microsatellites and SNPs in the DNA would let us compare morphs and see, for example, if coral glows and bananas are the genetically same or if "lethal genes" in different morphs stem from the same cluster of genes.

The possibilities are really exciting! It would do wonders in helping us to understand ball python genetics.

something like that would be really cool. If you could identify the hidden "het kill gene" in the HGW and test until you find a pair free from it, The pearl ball would become a living reality. Testing could also identify and help solve so many other issues too, like wobbling, kinking, infertile deserts, etc.

If this sort of thing becomes a reality, in the ball python hobby, breeding could REALLY be taken to a higher level...

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

something like that would be really cool. If you could identify the hidden "het kill gene" in the HGW and test until you find a pair free from it, The pearl ball would become a living reality. Testing could also identify and help solve so many other issues too, like wobbling, kinking, infertile deserts, etc.

If this sort of thing becomes a reality, in the ball python hobby, breeding could REALLY be taken to a higher level...

It would be awesome for more than ball pythons. Genetic testing for problems like hip dysplasia in German Shepherds could also be possible. Or, say you get a dog and while it's not diagnosed diabetic, it has the gene(s) that make it predisposed to diabetes. You could start it on a low-carb diet early in its life, and it may never develop the disease.

Just saw a add. I did a rough count in my head but they had over 100 banana and naner combos for sale. Their base naner was 450 so nothing compared to the 225 I saw but come on

Originally Posted by bcr229

It would be awesome for more than ball pythons.

I agree; I just posting on balls at the time though. Tests like that would have so many applications.