The new Atlanta show schedule

my email to Tony Cueto and then his reply to me:

From: "cathy" <southerncat@charter.net>
To: <atlantareptileshow@yahoo.com>
Subject: Congrads on your New Atlanta show!
Date: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:37 AM

Tony,
I want to wish you well on your new Atlanta show. If there is anything I can help you with please feel free to contact me. I can only imagine what you have been going through these last couple of weeks. It must have been a nightmare. I am not here to pour salt into your wounds. I am offering my help to you for the better of the reptile industry. I think we all would be better off working together. I want you to know that we did allow your Greenville fliers to be handed out( we even handed some out ourselves) in Columbia. We even allowed announcements to be made about your show.
Tony I have never lied to you and I am not going to start now. In my opinion, some people have been telling you things that they think you want to hear. There have been things told to you that have either been pure out lies or they have twisted what was said to better suit them. I will admit to you that the postings on your web site and the emails that you sent out that was talking about me did upset me a bit. But I know where all that was coming from, it was simple misunderstandings or someone not telling you the whole story.
I am in the process of planning next years shows and want to take the first step working with you. I do need to know what dates you have in mind for your Greenville show next year? We are looking into not doing a show in Spartanburg and Columbia if at all possible. Not because we did that awful in those venues but as a step forward in working together.

Sincerely
Cathy Elrod

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From: <Southeasternshow@aol.com>
To: <southerncat@charter.net>
Subject: CONFIDENTIAL REPLY
Date: Saturday, November 19, 2005 4:18 PM

Cathy, I do not candy coat anything. Very frankly I was surprised that you
emailed me. I was not surprised by your hypocrisies. You ask how you can
help? By leaving me the f alone!!! By leaving my shows the f alone!!! By
dropping you gossip, speculation and slander of me and my shows, by not
attempting to make a show for yourself by slamming my name and my shows!!!
YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PARASITE. You tried everything you could to harm my
shows in order to make a name for your show. I have been sending various
businesses you have been trying to peruse your postings throughout the Internet so
that they see what type of show promoter you are. I have not sent yet the
copy of Jason's instant message attacks because it is embarrassing to show
anyone that filth that you all thrive in, but am fed up and ready to do that as
well but hopefully it is not necessary because you want to end this and work
together? Sure you do, after you took your best shots at me, LOW, DIRTY shots
and have found you have lost your credibility and support. Do you expect me to
be grateful that you tell me you are no longer going to do shows in my area?
Do you really think I am stupid enough to believe you are doing that because
of me? No, you are doing that because you would not have but a handful of
vendors that would still support your shows. A handful at the most. I saw in
one of your MANY threads (see, before I would not go into them, now I do to
gather them to demonstrate to people you are seeking support from who do not go
into the threads, what type of individual you are, pretty close to the bottom
of the barrel, a lowlife, a parasite!!! I know you think it is one
particular vendor that is giving me all this incorrect information about you. That
is very very incorrect. If you only knew the amount of vendors that tell me so
many things that you have told them about me or my shows. At your last
Columbia show, even the vendors whom you gave them free spaces of numerous booths
for $60 just to get some vendors in your show, many of them have shared with
me statements you made about me and my show. Vendors that did not know me
tell me, whom I recently met, tell me what a different person I am from the
person you make me to be. But see Cathy, history always vindicates, demonstrates
the truth.
And what vendors tell me I do not give much weight to. I judge people by
how they treat me, by their actions directly, not what I hear about them. That
is you, the gossip queen that lives, only existence, only existence for your
shows is by spreading rumors, attacking me and others to make yourself look
good. Speaking of truth, you say you have always been honest with me???? Lets
go back to the 1st Columbia show when Jason and you went to Tom Mariono and
said you did not want any conflicts with my shows, you wanted to work
together, go into different markets. Then what do you do? You continue slamming me
on the internet and you announce a show in Spartanburg. I actually believe
that you honestly thought in your stupidity that it was two different markets
and you were not just lying. Then you come to my Columbia show, I have a
discussion with you, ask you it be confidential and what do you do? You broadcast
the discussion. But you have not lied to me? You have not tried to make
something out of nothing you have by attacking me and my shows? Oh, and then, after
claiming Greenville and Spartanburg are two different markets, you go to
Joe, he has verified you specifically requested the dates you did, go into my
venue, my SC home for the past eight years and attack me and my shows, what I
might or might not do, relentlessly.
You say you were hurt by what I wrote on my website about you, lets discuss
that. I wrote the following, you tell me if I said anything inaccurate,
untruthful and I will publicly apologize; 1) That your worked two weeks putting
fliers on cars and that was the extent of your experience 2) that you copy cat
my show, down to VIP tickets, same stage show, for Gods sakes, same venue,
have no backbone to your show but to deceive people and by putting me down to
make yourself look good.3) I clarified the dates of my show so no one would be
confused. NOW, what did I say that was so untruthful, that hurt you? BTW,
speaking of which, it is so ironic that you had the nerve to say in a thread
that in Greenville, every time I saw you I went the other way because we both
know who the better show promoter is when 1) the truth is that Stephanie told
me about 5 different parties had told her they went to Columbia the weekend
before, how upset and disappointed they were when they got to Columbia, and for
that reason, I made and was taping on the doors, while you stoop outside
with your husband smoking, signs for each door apologizing to any attendee that
had gone to Columbia the weekend before thinking it was our show, and to
avoid them being confused again, I gave our website and upcoming shows. 2) Who
now has the support and who is having to pull out of Spartanburg and Columbia
because you have no support to do another show? And no, I did not threaten any
vendors. Yes, I spoke to vendors, explained to them the logic, ways you were
hurting our show and I asked them to consider with all the garbage, all the
slander you fabricate about our shows in order to try to bring them down so
you can establish yourself, if it was not a conflict of interest to support
your shows. Some agreed, many had already made up their minds just from all
your crap on the internet that you were not a show promoter they wanted to be
associated with. What exactly is wrong with that Cathy, protecting the interest
of my shows, protecting the interest of my vendors, to talk to them and tell
them, show them how much you attack our shows and then tell Tom you are not
going to compete and do just the opposite? This time I do believe you are
being honest, but only because of being forced into the situation because of
lack of support. Cathy, I have been around a long time, met many people of all
walks of life.There have been people that we did not see eye to eye, there
have been people who I personally disliked or who dislike me,but I can tell you
sincerely Cathy, I say this with complete honesty and sincerity, I have
never met a person as despicable and low as you. Again, how can you help, LEAVE
ME AND MY SHOWS THE F ALONE, mind your own business, get off your ego trip.
When you sent out that email right after my Greenville show announcing the
Ladson show and slamming my show, I went to everyone involved with the Ladson
show and told them they could have my support or your support. It was ironic,
at least six vendors sent me copies of your email and they all said the
same, Tony, if we are going to make SC like FL shows like Cathy says, would we do
it with anything she is involved in or with one of the big promoters of
Florida reptile shows. I have had it with you. I went to the Ladson promoters,
and asked if they wanted my support or your support..... I have had it Cathy,
enough is enough. I am restoring business relationships with many of your
allies that are asking to come back to our shows or I am persuing and inviting
others back. Understand that the damage you have done, the severity of your
actions is such, that you are the only person with whom I could never work
things out with. Other show promoters I have had differences with and we have
worked things out and are now friends, but then, they were not the lowest of the
lowest of any form of life on earth. You asked me my 2006 show dates. I do
not trust you, have PLENTY of reason not to trust you. Tell me your 2006 show
dates. Maybe I will announce a show one week before your show if you can ever
even pull off another show. Parasites live very short lives, is the nature of
a parasite. You took your best shots at me, struck out three times and now
come to me wanting to work things out. Awe how nice. I would not wish you on
my worst enemy. Wait, you are my worst enemy.

Tony Cueto
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Please note words have been censored because of the language so not to break the TOS of this board

If ANY of you would like these emails forwarded to you, I will be happy to do so.

I thought I had figured out how to post the emails in their original form guess i did not.

Wow, you really pi$$ed him off!

Thats not hard to do.

Robert Hill, did you talk this over with Tony or did you go public with it immediately? Unless you discussed this with him and he admitted he made false statements to Cobb Galleria, you should not have posted this. Its pure hearsay. It’s a common business tactic to use established relationships to build new ones. There is the possibility that someone from the Cobb Galleria mentioned the Georgia Herpetological Society and Tony answered, yes…I have worked with them before, which was a true statement. Why would you not be sitting up a display? As a society, isn’t educating the public a part of your goals? I am the president of the Tri-State Herpetological Society and we would not miss an opportunity to reach this many people, regardless of how we may feel about a promoter. I don’t know you at all, but I think you could have handled this better. Further strife among our community was not needed.

Jason Vanderwaal and Monica Elrod, who do you know that Tony has scammed? I haven’t seen anyone making the claim he swindled them out of anything? All I see is a man trying to do business. He is not doing anything that is not an accepted business practice throughout this nation. He hit a hard spot with this Atlanta show. He lost is first venue, then had a second fall thru almost immediately, but as best I can tell he is trying to make everything right to the people who had spent their money on this show. He could very well have cut and run like the guys up in Nashville. Rather, he is doing what he can to put it back together.

Cathy, I am surprised by his replay to you, and rest assured I think he was in the wrong. At this point, it seems important that we try to support one another and it seems you were trying to do just that….but he didn’t want any part of it. I think that was a mistake. This Atlanta fiasco, coupled with a weak turn out in SC and FL has cost Tony and has made him a few adversaries. One would think that he would be quick to burry the hatchet with someone trying to make amends. I am not sure how much animosity has transpired between you two, but it seems Tony feels it was too much to try to resolve things. It was exemplarity of you to make the effort, that is all you can do.

Tony, if you are still looking at this, glad you got the show back together and I am looking forward to working with you. I still think its in your best interested to drop the venomoid master and get Roark back. But good luck to you either way.

Chuck Hurd et al.

I appreciate the honest comments about my show and am not offended in the least that you do not enjoy them. Usually, I avoid replying to the comments that appear on the board but I believe this one is a little different and I’d just like to clarify a few things.

Do I use venomoids for my show? Yes. Does this make me a venomoid master or an advocate of venomoids in general? No. Through my experience in the herpetoculture and herpetology industry I have come to recognize a few things to be standard. Most people do not correctly understand reptiles. Many are uneducated about the true nature of herps. While studying to get my Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in herpetology related fields, I realized the general public as well as common herpetoculturists do not understand reptiles near to what has been discovered about the various species. We have information on movement patterns, thermoregulatory behavior, habitat preferences as well as information on molecular and physiologically based processes. Do most of the people need to understand all of this? No. Do I attempt passing this information on to the general public? If I can, I do.

Leaving the technical scientific realm of herpetology brought me into the zoo world. I was the Tropical Reptile Keeper at Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia, SC. There I learned still more information and worked with a large variety of herps. Were their venomoids? No. I worked with eyelash vipers, mambas, gaboon vipers, several species of rattlesnakes, and king cobras. Again, however, I found being a zoo keeper wasn’t quite enough to satiate the desire to pass on my knowledge to people who wanted to learn more. Thus, I formed Reptilian Encounters and began touring the Southeast giving educational presentations.

At first, I did not bring venomous or venomoid animals to the discussions. As I spoke more, however, I realized the impact such an animal would have on the public. Then I began bringing caged venomous to the different areas and would allow the general public to see them. This, however, did not quite have the effect that I imagined it would have if I brought the venomous snake out of the cage. To take the snake out of the cage gave me two options. One was to bring out venomous snakes. The other was to bring out venomoid snakes. Obviously, you know that I chose the latter and I did so for a few reasons. Venomous snakes are awesome creatures that deserve the utmost respect. They are capable of delivering a fatal bite. Although I have worked with literally hundreds of venomous snakes throughout my herpetology career in my B.S. and M.S. programs as well as my zoo stint all without a bite, I still feel that to bring a snake that could cause such extensive damage to a patron of my talk would be simple irresponsibility. I may be able to control the snake but I cannot control the people viewing my shows. In a matter of a few seconds a person from the audience could approach the stage and get too close for comfort. Their lack of respect could turn into a real dangerous situation for both them as well as me. A venomoid prevents this. Another situation, probably unlikely as well, would be if something happened to me. What if while walking around I stumbled and fell? What if I had a stroke? What if I fainted from low blood-sugar? No one can say with any certainty that this will not happen. In the seconds/ minutes I could hypothetically be incapacitated, the venomous snake that I had on the stage has the opportunity to move towards the audience. With general public lectures, how many people would be qualified to safely capture that animal? It would be few if any. If the unpredictable did happen, a hot snake would not allow any forgiveness. These reasons seem far fetched and highly unlikely and yet they are close enough to reality that it was too much of a risk for me to consider bringing hot snakes into an environment where the media would have a field day if an accident did occur. (Also, I enjoy lecturing in schools and there are schools that will not allow a venomous animal to be brought). If the unimaginable and highly unlikely did happen, which would look better: 9 year-old in the hospital from a cobra bite and on life support OR 9 year-old recovering from a bite of a cobra that had been surgically altered to prevent envenomation. Obviously neither situation looks good nor should it ever happen but in the worst case scenario, I am more comfortable with the latter.

Venomoids have their place. I think personally they do well in my presentations and allow the general public to see animals that they might not otherwise have a chance to see. I also think they allow a safer presentation than hot snakes would. Do I advocate the selling and trading of venomoids for non-educational venues. NO. I think to own a venomoid cobra to drape it around your neck is extremely unprofessional (or worse, stupid). If you have seen my shows, you will not see me handle one of my venomoid animals in a way other than how I would handle a venomous snake. I do not want to give the impression that venomoids can be handled with less respect. I use hooks and tongs and you will not see me free handling any of these animals inappropriately (disrespectfully). I do not sell venomoids to the public. I have sold ONLY ONE such animal and it was to another speaker to be used in education and he is also a high up SHHS member.

I do apologize that you think--and maybe others do as well– that my shows are boring. I try to give a well-rounded presentation that includes mostly basics with a few interesting scientific facts that I have gained through my herpeotolgy education. I appreciate your comments on my lectures as well as the many comments I have received from principals, university profs, wildlife officials and the general public (fortunately for me, most of these comments have been positive!). In fact, I even had one of the more well-known SHHS members let me know that my talk is one of the best he has ever seen. As I continue to learn more through future work, such as my upcoming PhD this summer as well as from other herpetologists and herpetocultorists, I will take this information to heart. I will try to implement it in my presentations in such a way that it may help the general public to better understand the fascinating creatures found in the world. I think there are many good speakers out there all working to better peoples’ understanding of reptiles and amphibians. Tony did pick me over others and I am glad he has given me a chance to make an impression on the thousands of people that come to his shows.

Chuck,
If you (or other people for that matter) would like to talk one on one about my shows and how to improve them, please drop me a line (info@reptilianencounters.com), give me a call, or stop by my table at Atlanta or Columbia and we’ll talk.

Sorry, but I agree with Chuck. I do not believe in the practice of butchering venomous snakes for any reason. And as well educated as some people are, doing a venomous snake presentation with a venomoid (portraying it as a venomous), is phony. I wonder if the public is told how the snake was needlessly butchered to make the educator APPEAR more professional.

Jeff, I have seen your show more then once. You are well educated and an intelligent man. You know your material well, and if you were lecturing at a college or an audience of experienced herpers, you would be fine. However, lecturing to the general public is not your forte. You are an educator and not an entertainer. A venue such as a reptile expo is not what you are suited for. Speaking to an audience such as that is Roark’s specialty. I firmly believe in what I said, letting Roark go and bringing you in was a bad decision on Tony’s part and I hope he reconsiders it. I am certain you can tweak you presentation and make it more entertaining, but you will never be able to match up to someone who is a born entertainer.

As for the venomoid issue, I have never come out strongly against voids. I am a typical conservative that believes in live and let live. I don’t own any, but I really don’t care if someone else does. However, when you choose to uplift yourself to a position of authority, then I hold you to a higher standard. Take your profile photo for example, you want the shock value of having yourself posed with that cobra. Ok, I understand that venomous snakes garner more attention, and I use that fact also. I feel strongly that if you feel you are experienced to the point you should be lecturing about certain animals, then you should be able to control the animal while you talk about it. I conduct lectures on snakes on a regular basis and I use venomous. I place a barrier between me and my audience and I have assistants between is also. If you can not control the animal, then don’t lecture on it. Talk about garter snakes. Take the Hippopotamus for example, I know full well I can not control this animal, so you will not see me walking around on stage with one and lecturing on it. I am sorry, you can not make the case to me that it is acceptable to surgically alert a snake so you can hold it on stage while you talk. If you want the added attention of using venomous snakes in your show, then you should prepare yourself to use “real” venomous snakes and not perpetrate yourself as something you are not.

Here you go Jeff. I assure you this big boy has not been altered for educational purposes. =)

While I am not going to go into the discussion regarding venomoids(not the purpose of this forum), I will respond to SCreptile's comments regarding the GHS.

First off, yes, Cobb Galleria confirmed that Tony Cueto called them, and upon mention of the GHS show next year, he claimed to be our marketing director. The GHS does not and never has had a "marketing director." And no, claiming to be our marketing director is NOT the same as claiming to have a prior relationship, which aside from us doing a display at his show once a year, there wasn't one. Also, this has indeed been brought to Tony's attention over the phone by the president of the GHS(and it was with his permission that I posted). He even had the nerve to ask how the GHS doing a herp show next year helps HIM.

As I said before, we do not sponsor Tony's shows, and as of this junction, we will no longer be participating in them. It was the concensus of the GHS board that we not associate with someone who was using our name under false pretenses. And even though Tony has been told explicitly that our society will not be setting up a native herp exhibit at his show, he still has us listed on his site as one of the attractions(along with a couple of vendors who will be attending another show that weekend).

As for educating the public, yes, the opportunity that Tony's shows have offered in the past has been great. It is a shame that it has come to the point where the board felt pretty unanimously that we no longer set up at his shows, but we all agreed that Tony used the name of the GHS without our consent or even knowledge to get his floundering show into the venue. Without associating himself with us in that way, it is likely he wouldn't have gotten the venue. And believe me, NONE of the board was happy about that.

On a personal note, I really hate to see Tony's shows going downhill. I have done his Atlanta show since it's beginning and up until the last couple of years, found them great. Unfortunately, there has been a gradual downward slide in the customer service Tony provides(at least in Atlanta). Other vendors can attest to some of the problems like not arranging a show vet ahead of time(out of state vendors are required to have vet certificates, and without a vet, these cannot be done and vendors can't sell). In fact, one of the vendors actually had to arrange LAST MINUTE to get a show vet out when Tony failed to get one himself. Tony has shown up late to the venue to open the doors for vendors, and one year he would disappear for hours at a time. Last year lunches were not provided to vendors despite that being one of the perks in his vendor packets. I don't know what's been going on in his business or personal life that might be causing these downward progressions, but I really hope he can turn things around.

Anyway, I really do hope all of the vendors do well at the show next weekend. I hope Tony has actually booked the Galleria and that everything goes off without a hitch. It is not my intention nor that of the GHS for Tony to fail. If his show does flop, it will be his own fault for not handling business properly.