my first snake corn or milk or king

Hate to jump subjects in the middle of a thread, but I have several Northern Pine hatchlings, from different clutches, and I'm having a tough time keeping food down them. They eat and puke up the meal several days later. Ambient is 74F with 84F belly heat areas in the back of ten gallon aquariums. Pine shavings on the bottom of the cages, water available sufficient for soaking. I use PE2 temp guns for monitoring, as well as two room thermometers as a double check. Hide spots are available, but they don't use them a lot, prefering to burry in the pine chavings. Room is a dedicated snake room, very quiet. They've been checked for parasites and proto. I've tried mice, furry rats, etc. They puke everything up except pinkies, but they don't puke every time. I could just feed pinkies for while, but 18" pituophis hatchlings EAT A LOT of pinkies. I am going to start another thead specific to this subject.

Any ideas?

Val Campbell

TAKE THEM OFF THE PINE!!!!!! Pine is horrible for snakes. It can be toxic and fatal.
Also, give them a 95ish degree basking area.
I'd use aspen, or even newspaper/paper towels.
Hope this advice helps.

I'll take them off shavings immediately and see if that helps. We don't have aspen available up here, not that I have seen. These are called "white" shavings and are usually pine. I know that cedar is bad for snakes but I have never heard any issues with Pine???

Val Campbell

Most pet supply places...especially the national chains...will carry aspen. Need to look in the cute and fuzzy (food) bedding section.

Aspen is aesthetically pleasing, and clumps well when soiled, so spot cleaning is easier.

You may want to use paper towels or newspaper (sheets) until you diagnose the problem.

I pity the fool who uses pine.

Indeed. They may be PINE snakes, but that doesnt mean pine chips, shavings, and whatnot is healthy for them. Odars and oils can be very deadly, toxic, and fatal

Originally Posted by Sand&SunReptile

TAKE THEM OFF THE PINE!!!!!! Pine is horrible for snakes. It can be toxic and fatal.
Also, give them a 95ish degree basking area.
I'd use aspen, or even newspaper/paper towels.
Hope this advice helps.

Did you know "Aspen" is a type of Pine Tree? I know of people that have kept snakes on pine for MANY years. I don't know of any study that shows pine has adverse effects on snakes. Also, kingsnakes don't like hot temps......a 95ish basking spot would not be a good idea.....unless it's for a Ball Python. Take about 10 degrees off that number and you'll be fine.

Brandon Osborne

I have always read, and been advised by experianced herp keepers to avoid pine. I would say, the pine itself, if ordarless and oilless would be fine, but if they do have the oils and whatnot they become toxic. I guess the same may be true with other wood substrates.
I use mostly newspaper, and also aspen shavings on my adult corns. Never any problems with either, and the newspaper is incredibly easy to clean.

Brandon- Aspen is NOT a type of pine tree (contrary to popular belief) it is in the Poplar family.

"Aspen Tree
(Populus tremula)

LIKE the Willows, with which group they constitute the natural order Salicaceae, the Poplars are so variable a series of trees as to present considerable difficulties to the systematic botanist. They are all of them deciduous trees,"

This is from this link http://www.2020site.org/trees/aspen.html
It is a primary food of the beaver...as well as multiple hoofed animals that like the leaves.

Yes, I have heard of people keeping snakes on pine...but one batch that hasn't been dried correctly...or has too much dust...and you are going to have a world of problems. Not worth the risk in my opinion. And definitely not something to recommend to an inexperienced herper.

Brandon- Aspen is NOT a type of pine tree (contrary to popular belief) it is in the Poplar family.

"Aspen Tree
(Populus tremula)

LIKE the Willows, with which group they constitute the natural order Salicaceae, the Poplars are so variable a series of trees as to present considerable difficulties to the systematic botanist. They are all of them deciduous trees,"

This is from this link http://www.2020site.org/trees/aspen.html
It is a primary food of the beaver...as well as multiple hoofed animals that like the leaves.

Yes, I have heard of people keeping snakes on pine...but one batch that hasn't been dried correctly...or has too much dust...and you are going to have a world of problems. Not worth the risk in my opinion. And definitely not something to recommend to an inexperienced herper.