Has this ever happened to you,,?

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/3501546.htm
http://www.ntrs.org/pending_san_fran.htm

Seamus? who are you anyway? do you keep reptiles? or even have any experience with them? you seem you "know" an aweful lot but prior to fauna seemed to mever exist?
reason why i am asking is where do you get all your info, experience or just books?
i think these are worthy questions as far as this thread goes... it give us a little insight as to whether... this is someone just spouting off or someone with actual working knowledge due to experience............. i seem to believe my first choice.

Macia, i applaud your efforts!!!
sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.. after all avenues have been traveled....
personally i would take him with a grain of salt , consider the souce. and not responde to a person as disrespectful and apparently not worthy of an intelegent response or your time

Hey Marcia... Animal control was called numerous times but never cited the store or removed ALL the animals...

That indicates that the conditions were borderline on legal acceptability.

Had a public stink not been raised by you and your PETA buddies, the city would never have taken any action, the action was taken as a reflex to public opinion, public opinion is often based on a highly biased media.

Seamus? who are you anyway?

I'm Seamus Haley... see the name in the corner of my posts and in my signature? That's me.

do you keep reptiles?

Certainly do.

or even have any experience with them?

Certainly do.

you seem you "know" an aweful lot but prior to fauna seemed to mever exist?

It's got a question mark on the end of it but I'm not sure what exactly you're asking.

reason why i am asking is where do you get all your info, experience or just books?

Both, as most people do... I have hands on experience, I also read and talk to people, all of which combines to result in a cummulative knowledge. I tend to differentiate between direct knowledge and secondhand information when writing or speaking, using statements like "When I" or "I've read that" or "According to" Not always of course, depends on what sort of conversation it is.

think these are worthy questions as far as this thread goes

I think if you're really concerned, you can start a BOI thread, although I make very few purchases, usually low end and aren't particularly memorable so you won't get much in the way or responses.

it give us a little insight as to whether... this is someone just spouting off or someone with actual working knowledge due to experience

This is the "SOUND OFF" forum...

But I do have working knowledge, when I don't, I'm more than happy to tell someone... Although most of what has been expressed on this thread has been opinion based or subjective conjecture, so I'm not sure what exactly you want as proof that my opinions are based off logic.

not worthy of an intelegent response

Anyone else find the above quote really... REALLY funny?

Seamus, I don't understand WHY you can't answer the questions that are posed to you!

If there were animals in those conditions, they would have been confiscated by animal control. Animal control did not confiscate the animals so the animals were not in those conditions.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY DIDN'T?

Hey Marcia... Animal control was called numerous times but never cited the store or removed ALL the animals...

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY DIDN'T?

I tend to differentiate between direct knowledge and secondhand information when writing or speaking

WHERE'S YOUR FIRSTHAND INFORMATION?

although I can tell you right now that the self righteous types are usually ignored as bad noise

YOU ARE RIGHT, SEAMUS! That is exactly why I am going to ignore YOU!
Bye bye!

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY DIDN'T?

Since you seem to know, Marcia, did they, on all of the questions that you responded to with this? Rather than use such a response, if Seamus is incorrect, say so. I, for one, would like to know whether or not you concur with what he said. Is he correct, or incorrect?

I have to say that even though I understand that government intervention in our hobby is a constant threat. I do have to agree with Marcia and her actions.

The problem I have with your idea of education Seamus is that educating the Petco employee of today makes for an overly educated Target cashier tomorrow. The employees don't care and if they do they have so little power that they really can't effect any significant change in how the animals are treated.

Seamus I also have to point out that it seems as your stance is that an entity can sell, raise, or keep a herp in any condition it so chooses because you want the freedom from government intervention. I am sorry but as was stated these are living, breathing animals and even though rights are not really the right word lets at least address the fact that they need to be treated as worthwhile pets. And on this issue the reason education wouldn't work is that as far as the Petcos of this world are concerned they are just an item of inventory, like the dog food and cat food. Something to make a buck on. And as long as the dollar keeps coming in then they have no reason to change anything.

And if I am reading this right Marcia did not affect any new laws just brought to the attention of officials a company that was violating existing laws. I may be wrong in this but the point still remains that you Seamus are not an expert in CA legal system. So that animal control did not seize the animals does not make what was happening any less of a "criminal" act. Or that civil charges were filed does not make for the actions of a company any less of a "criminal nature". Shall we remember that more often than not fines are the way to punish corporations for violations of the law civil or criminal. Or am I too assume that you are an expert in CA legal system as you seem to be an expert in everything else.

And finally Seamus we have all read your lengthy tirades on every aspect of reptile world and all else for that matter. And even though I respect your intelligence I have to question an individual who seems to be and expert on everything. Oh and by the way I figured you would be the last person to stereotype anyone, Democrats the world over are cringing at the fact you hate them. Lets face it the two party system is outdated, all it does is gives whoever is in power today an entity to blame for its present problems. Kind of like you blame M Kaplan for everything from the rain in tomorrow's forecast to the war in Iraq. So I guess the question remains what animals do you keep? What expertise do you have in the reptile world? Give us your history so we can judge for ourselves the wisdom you continue to hand out to us mortals.

Oh and sorry I forgot based on a post in another part of Fauna I guess I am just one of the "most ignorant of reptile owners" since I happen to like and keep Iguanas (among other reptiles and animals) and before you go and label me with a PETA membership, got to tell you man the shoe doesn't fit.

And before anyone asks I will state that I am a newcomer to this hobby only been keeping herps for a year or so. I don't profess my expertise on the animals just have the wisdom to admit I don't know but am willing to learn. But I am intelligent maybe a bad typist or speller. But not stupid.

Oh and by the way Seamus I do find the humor in the quote!

Well,,,
I started this thread,, and look at it now,,, what a mess,,,
i started it because,, i wanted to see if others in there towns saw animals being kept very substandard..and how it casts a dark shadow on "us" the reptile family. it always seems like if you go into a pet shop, the puppies, dogs, birds, and even the fish are better kept than the reptiles,,, For me , a person who enjoys reptiles, loves the challenge of breeding them, and all the enjoyment they can bring, it seemd like a shame for these animals that we all keep and love, to be kept in nasty conditions. i understand everone who has replied to this thread,,, and everyone has some good points to what they say,, but the reality is, I for one don't want to walk into a pet store and see the animals mistreated,,, ( iwould hope we all agree on that) be it one leopard gecko or a herd of them,,, they reply on us to keep them with there needs met. As a human being we should all understand and agree on that.

Seamus,,,
we get it,, you don't agree with what Marcia did,,, you have replied to this thread 12 times,,,,, we get it already.
__________________________________________________ _
And finally Seamus we have all read your lengthy tirades on every aspect of reptile world and all else for that matter. And even though I respect your intelligence I have to question an individual who seems to be and expert on everything
(Quote from dragon dad above.)
_________________________________________________

I agree with dragon dad on this one,,, you seem to know everything,,, is there anything you don't know..? I went to school at fla state, with some very smart people but with the wealth of knowledge you have ( or think you have) you need to be a proffesor.. your time is wasted with us simple minded folk here...
i subscribe to the thought that the one who screams loudest, knows the least,,, and to me, you are always the loudest.
I may be judging you wrong, but I am proud to say i surely don't know everything,,, I did an apprenticeship under a really fantastic guy when i lived in fla. for a year to learn about reptiles,,, and i did learn a lot, but I know, I am quick to shut my mouth and listen to people who actually know more than i do,,
Seamus, i for one am tired of your tirades, and if i get a warning for saying so, then so be it, but enough is enough,,,, and the way you are calling Marcia names, like stupid, etc, has gone to far. I don't know Marcia, have never met her, but i know one thing, there was no sense for the attack on her, like you have done.


please one last thing Seamus, give me the adress to your website you sell animals on,,, cause I surely don't ever want to look at it, and buy anything you produce, I would hate to deal with you in a business setting.

Anyone else find the above quote really... REALLY funny?

Seamus,
actually i do think it's funny, because i have never claimed or implied to be anything I am not. A perfect person, I am not.

Seamus Haley

"Genes, like Leibnitz's monads, have no windows; the higher properties of life are emergent... And once assembled, organisms have no windows."
- Edward Wilson, Sociobiology

"Ourselves Alone!"

Since you seem to know, Marcia, did they, on all of the questions that you responded to with this? Rather than use such a response, if Seamus is incorrect, say so. I, for one, would like to know whether or not you concur with what he said. Is he correct, or incorrect?

Thank you for asking that question, Uffern.. but I have never claimed to know the answer. I have absolutely no idea if Seamus is correct or not in regard to Animal Control confiscating all of the animals.. I only wanted to know how he knows for certain they did not.

If there were animals in those conditions, they would have been confiscated by animal control... Animal control did not confiscate the animals so the animals were not in those conditions.

Again, I want to know how Seamus knows that? I would assume that when they found all of those dead reptiles and birds in the freezers that they wouldn't have just left them there! Besides, I was not present when/if this event took place, but it sounds to me as if Seamus was.

And if I am reading this right Marcia did not affect any new laws just brought to the attention of officials a company that was violating existing laws

This is absolutely TRUE. The laws were in affect in California long before I came to this state! I only dealt directly with PetCorp. Period. When the employees of the two local PetCo stores filed their suit, I supported them by providing the attorney's with the information I had.

This is a direct quote from Seamus himself:]http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...4467#post54467

Just because something can't be proven to be true doesn't automatically make it false.

So I guess the question remains what animals do you keep? What expertise do you have in the reptile world? Give us your history so we can judge for ourselves the wisdom you continue to hand out to us mortals.

I am not attempting to speak on Seamus' behalf, but you may be able to glean some answers to those questions by visiting his Home Page:
http://hometown.aol.com/msurinamensis

What seems to come to mind here is "jack of all trades, master of none"