What method do you use to ship?

Allthough I agree UPS and likely Fed Ex, heck Im SURE ALL of the carriers are far rougher with the packages then we would like, I want to point out that its the shippers responsibility to protect the animals against such things.

I did state its nearly animal cruelty to shp UPS, and if you send a animal in a box, and thats about all you do it is. However most people in the industry are well aware of the risks involved with shipping VIA ANY SHIPPER, INCLUDEING AIRLINES, and as such package their animals to protect against any unforseen incidents in shipping.

Also to the statement of useing a "steel box" or whatever the exact quote was if you were to ship Fed EX. If you use a proper box, and styro line it with 1/2" or thicker stryo you would be amazed at just how strong that box becomes.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

Sean

Im glad you pointed out that your looking at this from a "non dealers" point of view. In all honesty this thread is directed more towards "dealers" of reptiles then to the average hobbiest.

The thread isnt designed to debate the care given or not given by one shpper over the other as it relates to the animals. Im sure everyone here has their own ideas on how to ship, and who is best to use or not use. As has been pointed out many times, each company has their own flaws.

I think its a bit harsh to say that people shipping via over the counter means dont have the animals best ntrest at heart. I find that to be insulting to say the least. I personally feel shipping is a risky business either way, and you know what it is part of BUSINESS. And as such you do have to take that into consideration when you make descisions.

Personally if I could convice EVERY coustomer I sold to to have EVERY animal I sold shipped Delta I WOULD IN A HEART BEAT. You want to know why, and guess what its a business decision.....Because they offer insurance on live animals.

See the industry is driven by the coustomers not the "dealers". As such its obvious the coustomers demand a cheaper alternative to shipping. Untill you run a business, you honestly dont have much of any valid input on this thread.

Im not trying to be harsh, no do I need to take "overatction pills" or whatever you stated. I am however trying to keep the thread on the track its inteded to be going, and thats to help BUSINESS and BREEDERS be able to ship animals openly. I think this would also help ensure the safety of many of the animals allready being shipped this method, often without the shipper knowing. Thats of more harm to the animals then allowing it knowingly. But then again, thats not what the threads about.

One last personal statement Sean, just so you know I do not take your statements as a personal attack, your more then welcome to your opinion, so I hope you offer me the same respect.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

customers........lol....yea I know Im an idot.

Mickey Hinkle
The LIzard King Reptiles

absolutley mickey... sorry for the sarcasm... i look at reptile keeping, and the very little 'dealing' i do.... maybe somewhat like you view that excruciatingly complex tattoo you have going.

its something youre doing out of personal passion, not to have done as cheaply, and efficiantly as possible... youre obvioulsy not having it done in a jailhouse with guitar string and india ink... youre going to a professional, trained, compitent tatoo artist im assuming. im assuming he usesthe highest quality, sterilized, equipment he can, and im sure he has a brilliant porfolio of other amazing tatoos....so thats why you chose the guy, cause hes the best possible way to get it done?

i bet you couldve gotten the whole thing done much cheaper... but at what integrity loss?

im well aware it isnt practical to ship green anoles delta dash. so yeah my view is probably a bit skewed from this topic then. maybe im idealist... but hey, if you can manage to make idealism happen, run with it
economics of keeping reptiles is my least concern, and i dont accuse people that ship overnight animal abusers or neglectful..because again, ive done it myself.. i jsut dont think its the best possible method to ship the animals.

and again, ive used fed ex, and been fine... in all honesty ill probably use them again... and until they decide to MAKE PROPER PROVISIONS for live cargo... i will feel im gambling their saftey. Whenever possible, and as often as i can, i will us US air... never had a bad experience.

happing shipping, and i DO hope door to door becomes a LEGAL, RELIABLE, SAFE, AND ECONOMIC option...

cheers

sean mills

I`ve shipped and recieved with everyone including delta dash and had problems with them all. I was at the airport (30 minutes away) waiting for my albino ball and by the time they got it off the plane and to me (about 3 hours) the snake was a ice cub. I have been using Airborne Express for about 10 yrs and not once did thay say anything about me shipping snakes and my boxes are always labled live harmless reptiles. I`m not going to call them and ask if i can, (i think we know the answer to that one) but i checked my contract and their website and i cannot find anywhere that you cannot ship snakes. I even had my lawyer look over it and he said i`d have a case if the problem should arise. Someone mention the grandfather clause i could be in that, not sure. So my answer to the poll webslave is Airborne although i`m not sure if its with or without permission. But i am willing to do whatever it takes even if it means losing my account with them to get this sh** taken care of.

"and i DO hope door to door becomes a LEGAL, RELIABLE, SAFE, AND ECONOMIC option... "

Again, I am waiting for anyone to show me where it is illegal to ship live animals via overnight, door-todoor delivery services.

Terms have meanings, folks. When we speak in terms of "legalities," we have entered a very precise world indeed. So, if it is illegal to ship in this way, I ask that proof be shown. If there is no proof (which I believe there is none to be found), then we really need to stop using the term "illegal" as has been done here recently.

I think there are a lot of moot points being argued in this thread.

Like it or not, it will be the BUYING customers who decide what we, as sellers can do. Most buyers do a lot of price comparison when they are in the market for reptiles. The internet has made this childs play to do these days. If they look at your price list and see $50 for a snake and $69 for Delta Dash shipping, then look at Bubba's Bargain Basement Boas and see the same snake for $50, but $35 for overnight delivery to their home doorstep, who do you THINK they are going to buy from? You can argue until you are blue in the face about the reasons for your using Delta Dash, but the ONLY things that is going to matter to most people will be what they are getting for the money they are spending on shipping. Let's see: $69 plus a round trip to the airport, or $35 and they just have to sit at home waiting for the truck to pull up. Well duh.... That's a real tough one.

And no, 90 percent of the people will not care at all whether or not the carrier knows what is in the box or that you are marking the box as being carved wax figurines. All they want to do is to get their animal shipped to them via the cheapest and most convenient method possible. So unless you are offering something completely unique that no one else can provide, YOUR business will suffer greatly over this unfair competitive advantage that your competition will be using. Quite likely, you will eventually be put out of business by it unless you can compensate in some other fashion.

Heck, if I had to order computer supplies and the only way I could get them from my first choice supplier would be to make a trip to the airport, I would darn side try to find a better way to get them. Even if the cost were the same, it's just darned inconvenient to have to run to the airport if there is a better option available.

These shipping problems, inequities, and unfair practices of the shipping companies are causing us untold damage. Not only for the people who are trying to ship now, but also ALL of the people who are not going to even think about getting into this business because they don't want to have these sort of problems when they have their own animals to sell. So yeah, some people would be glad of the reduced competition and probably would like to keep that competitive edge in place when it comes to shipping.

But that is being extremely short sighted. We are talking about the potential to have a logarithmic increase in business as a distinct possibility if these shipping problems just go away. This also means a like kind increase in business for whatever shippers would be ready and willing to fully accept our business and help us to grow this industry without these arbitrary controls placed by shipping restraints hindering our potential.

There may be some short term pain involved for some people, but I think the long term potential of this will make it all worthwhile afterwards.

I ship 10 to 30 packages a month. All without their blessing. When using overnight delivery, the transit times are usually under 24 hours. Provided that the animals are packaged correctly, there should be no reason for them not to arrive safely. I had one animal delayed because of 9/11. It was sitting somewhere for 5 days and arrived if great shape. That was the only problem I've had in over 5 years of shipping animals.
I've talked to all of the major carriers with absolutley no luck at all. They are just not interested in dealing with live animals. Especially snakes!!
When dealing with any kind of shipping, there is always the possibility that something can go wrong. That in itself shouldn't be a reason not to ship them. People get killed in car accidents every day, but we all still drive.
As long as they packaged properly, with heat or cold packs, and not shipped in extreme weather conditions, there shouldn't be a problem. Weather forcasts are just a click or two away. I've held animals for over a month, waiting for favorable conditions.
Rick

Just for your info, here is a link to the tariff that UPS uses as their base operating regulations:

UPS Final Tariff

This is in PDF format, so you will need Adobe Acrobat in order to read it.

Get out of my head Rich.

Well said, I hope when I grow up Im just like you, only taller with real snakes, not thoose worms you claim are snakes (yes I know I have points coming off for that...lmao)

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles