INFO: UPS-will they honor their agreement?

Originally Posted by Xelda

I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison since chameleons aren't terrestrial like leopard geckos and don't have the same foot structure.

so having something for them to grip on would seem to be that much more important (IMO)...at least leopard geckos can walk easily without some form of substrate. Ever seen a chameleon try to walk across a table?

Originally Posted by hhmoore

so having something for them to grip on would seem to be that much more important (IMO)...at least leopard geckos can walk easily without some form of substrate. Ever seen a chameleon try to walk across a table?

Hahahaa, yeah it's comical. They look like a fish out of water! They do need something to wrap those mitten like feet around. I didn't want to mention it because I didn't want to discredit an idea that does have merit. Do I feel that substrate could have helped this little gecko? Absolutely. Do I feel that this gecko died because it didn't have substrate? No.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

so having something for them to grip on would seem to be that much more important (IMO)...at least leopard geckos can walk easily without some form of substrate. Ever seen a chameleon try to walk across a table?

This doesn't make substrate any more practical for them though. How I've seen chameleons packed for shipment is with secured fake plants in tall deli cups.

I think it is important to have some kind of substrate in the cup when shipping. If anything it helps provide a place for the animal to hold on or provides padding and a place to poop. Lizards are shipped with paper towls, frogs with spagnum moss, and chameleons with fake plants. I would be very upset at receiving chameleons with no paper towels or plants. I would think that would be very stressful to them.

As far as heat packs go, I am with Ben on this one. I would think it is much easier to overheat then freeze an animal. I usually drop off my packages at 4 or 5 PM and they usually arrive by 10 AM from UPS. I would be interested in what other people think is the proper amount. I am usually shipping frogs in small boxes so I only use 1 40 hour heat pack.

I think it would actually be an interesting exercise for someone to test something like this. Record the temperatures via a minimum/maximum thermometer in various sized boxes with 1 to 3 heat packs at a couple of different ambient outside temperatures. Probably would really open up some eyes.

Rob Jenkins (Herpcam) and I conducted a coast-to-coast shipping experiment last winter during the week before Christmas where we obtained two 4-day thermal chart recorders... one for the inside of the box and one secured to the outside of the box. The box size was 14x10x10 with a 1" thick molded styrofoam insert that closes up like an ice chest. The volume of the box would have been less than 1 cubic foot.

I packed the box with shredded newspaper and placed the temerature controller inside, and secured two 30-hour heat-packs inside, one on each opposite side. I turned on the temperature recorders, sealed the box, and attached the second recorder to the ouside of the box. (Pics below)

First, I sent Rob the container from the west cost to the east coast via UPS Overnight Air guaranteed delivery by 10:30 am. The temperatures here were in the low 40's to upper 30's, below freezing in Louisville, KY where the UPS hub is, and in the mid-upper 30's in Mariland when the shipment arrived at 10:00 the next morning.

Rob then opened the box, removed the heat-packs, and replaced them with two new ones. He then sealed the box back up and shipped it back to me via USPS Overnight Priority Mail guaranteed to be delivered by noon the following morning. Par for the course, (especially during Christmas week) the package took 3 days to arrive back to me.

When I removed the the chart recorders and pulled out the yards of tape, the first thing I did was begin to extrapolate the data into an time vs. temperature Excel spreadsheet, first with the data from the inside of the box, and then compared it to the data from the outside of the box. I was looking for how hot it got inside the box over the 16 hour trip, and how long the heat lasted. Likewise, I wanted to determine how cold the external temps were compared to the internal temperature.

Here is the graph that was generated from the data:

Oh, boy the inside isn't much different.

The outside temps are surprisingly high; they must have kept the packages shielded from the worst of it.

You can see exactly when that heat pack stops working too!

Looks like that 30 hour heat pack made it about 19 or 20.

I also wonder if the placement of the heat packs would change the outcome (like under the newspaper)?